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  #21  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2022, 2:05 AM
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Hopefully Chicago will boom again. A ton of potential within the zone indicated as Manhattan for Chicago. One benefit is probally the best bang for the buck in terms of an urban experience. Literally bang for the buck. A NE folk like myself could go there and live like a king whereas say in NYC, same price for a nice unit in Chicago might get one a dirty bathroom stall with a microwave that doesn't work and hardware floor with blood stains. 2k a month can go very far in Chicago rent wise.

An urban bargain if you ask me (minus the crime). But in time, hopefully things will get better.

I'd love to see the city putting up 25-30k units a year. A ton of potential.
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  #22  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2022, 6:37 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Hopefully Chicago will boom again. A ton of potential within the zone indicated as Manhattan for Chicago. One benefit is probally the best bang for the buck in terms of an urban experience. Literally bang for the buck. A NE folk like myself could go there and live like a king whereas say in NYC, same price for a nice unit in Chicago might get one a dirty bathroom stall with a microwave that doesn't work and hardware floor with blood stains. 2k a month can go very far in Chicago rent wise.

An urban bargain if you ask me (minus the crime). But in time, hopefully things will get better.

I'd love to see the city putting up 25-30k units a year. A ton of potential.
Downtown continues to boom, and of course the northwest side has been growing. I can’t help but feel a boom could be on the horizon, if it hasn’t already begun.
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  #23  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2022, 4:21 PM
DCReid DCReid is offline
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Downtown continues to boom, and of course the northwest side has been growing. I can’t help but feel a boom could be on the horizon, if it hasn’t already begun.
25-30K units per year in Chicago would likely require a construction revival/boom on the south side and west side. This forum has shown some proposals for some redevelopments, like the former Michael Reese Hospital on the near south, but development would have to proceed further south and west on lots that could be redeveloped. It would be interesting to see if that happens over the next few years. I guess it would have to be a renovation similar to the south Bronx in NYC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Bronx
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  #24  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2022, 10:57 PM
wanderer34 wanderer34 is offline
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Though Detroit is a little different. The apartment district really was Northwest of the core. If Detroit had ever built a real transit system, Woodward would have been the logical first route, but the Dexter/Linwood corridor out towards Southfield would have been a close second.

The Dexter bus line is the second busiest in the city, even today, after 90% of the apartment buildings were leveled. You see slight hints of the old vitality around Dexter Davison, Central HS and the like. Was the Jewish district, then the upper-middle class black district, plus a big gay population in the apartment buildings till the area got crappy.
If Detroit ever had a mass transit system like NYC, Chicago, Boston, and DC, then it would've utilized the spoke routes of Fort, Michigan, Grand River, Woodward, Gratiot, Jefferson, and possibly Van Dyke and Livernois. Even a semi-circle route along Grand Blvd from MCS to Belle Isle would've made a lot of sense.

Also, I'm thinking some of the freeways in Detroit would've been utilized like the Jeffries and the Lodge. It's a shame Detroit never developed a mass transit system like the cities aforementioned.
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  #25  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2022, 11:08 PM
DCReid DCReid is offline
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Originally Posted by wanderer34 View Post
If Detroit ever had a mass transit system like NYC, Chicago, Boston, and DC, then it would've utilized the spoke routes of Fort, Michigan, Grand River, Woodward, Gratiot, Jefferson, and possibly Van Dyke and Livernois. Even a semi-circle route along Grand Blvd from MCS to Belle Isle would've made a lot of sense.

Also, I'm thinking some of the freeways in Detroit would've been utilized like the Jeffries and the Lodge. It's a shame Detroit never developed a mass transit system like the cities aforementioned.
Wiki: "The period from 1800 to 1929 was one of considerable growth of the city, from 1,800 people in 1820 to 1.56 million in 1930 (2.3 million for the metropolitan area). During this period, a new road system had been created in 1805, a regional rail network was constructed, a thriving streetcar network developed and an emerging global motorcar industry was established in the city." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transp...litan_Detroit]

I would hope you would know what killed much of mass transit in Detroit...
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  #26  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2022, 5:48 PM
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Originally Posted by wanderer34 View Post
If Detroit ever had a mass transit system like NYC, Chicago, Boston, and DC, then it would've utilized the spoke routes of Fort, Michigan, Grand River, Woodward, Gratiot, Jefferson, and possibly Van Dyke and Livernois. Even a semi-circle route along Grand Blvd from MCS to Belle Isle would've made a lot of sense.

Also, I'm thinking some of the freeways in Detroit would've been utilized like the Jeffries and the Lodge. It's a shame Detroit never developed a mass transit system like the cities aforementioned.
We don't have to wonder what it would look like. They planned it over 100 years ago:



source: https://8woodblog.com/map-envisions-...onder-what-if/
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  #27  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2022, 5:51 PM
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^ rotate that map 90 degrees CCW and it could almost pass for a map of chicago's L, minus the loop.

A damn shame it didn't happen. I wonder to what degree it might've made a difference in Detroit's population collapse.
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  #28  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2022, 5:58 PM
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^ rotate that map 90 degrees CCW and it could almost pass for a map of chicago's L, minus the loop.
Although it is not quite as symmetrical, superimpose the Detroit People Mover map onto the one above and you've got almost a direct copy lol. I think the 1960s plan was to have the system first planned in the 1910s with the DPM as a loop-like circulator to get people to points around downtown. The circulator became important due to the sunsetting of the Detroit Streetcar system in the 1950s. The DPM was the only part of the system that got built.
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  #29  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2022, 6:07 PM
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I shed a tear every time I see this map. With how rapidly Detroit grew, this would have accelerated the city's growth, maybe even catching up to Chicago's population. The city's streetcar system declined pretty early due to the automobile, maybe it would have been a different story with a subway system. Too many possibilities to think about, not particularly healthy to dwell on them
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  #30  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2022, 6:35 PM
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Detroit's rail system probably wouldn't have looked like that, however.

That map dates to 1918, before the city's great 1920's boom, before New Center, before Midtown, before the great art deco apartment districts in the city's northwest.

Some of the routes are kinda silly. West Fort Street, for a century, has been an almost entirely uninhabited warehouse/industrial corridor. Woodward would obviously be a corridor, but not sure about any of the other routes.
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  #31  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2022, 6:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Some of the routes are kinda silly. West Fort Street, for a century, has been an almost entirely uninhabited warehouse/industrial corridor. Woodward would obviously be a corridor, but not sure about any of the other routes.
The Ford Motor Company wanted it to connect to the Rouge complex.
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  #32  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2022, 7:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Detroit's rail system probably wouldn't have looked like that, however.

That map dates to 1918, before the city's great 1920's boom, before New Center, before Midtown, before the great art deco apartment districts in the city's northwest.

Some of the routes are kinda silly. West Fort Street, for a century, has been an almost entirely uninhabited warehouse/industrial corridor. Woodward would obviously be a corridor, but not sure about any of the other routes.
I'm not that familiar with Detroit. Are any of the art deco apartment districts still in existence? I've been toying with Google maps trying to locate, but I am not sure where to look.
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  #33  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2022, 7:43 PM
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I'm not that familiar with Detroit. Are any of the art deco apartment districts still in existence? I've been toying with Google maps trying to locate, but I am not sure where to look.
They're mostly destroyed, but you'll see remnants. Dexter & Linwood corridors around Davison were the center. Basically west of Woodward, north of Grand Blvd. The old Jewish corridor.

It's hard to imagine, but this area used to be full of upper middle class, art-deco apartment buildings. Neighborhood was nice until the 1960's, and intact until the 1990's:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3856...7i16384!8i8192

The only semi-intact art deco apartment district is just south of Palmer Park, just north of McNichols, just west of Woodward. This was the gay district until the 1990's (I think still popular with AA gays?) and may still be salvageable:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4185...7i16384!8i8192
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  #34  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2022, 8:00 PM
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Another area with a concentration of art deco residential:
https://goo.gl/maps/nVEtfhYUwsqvVBry5

There are also a lot scattered at various points around the city, such as:
https://goo.gl/maps/EdJ6NjWHs33B2hbo6

But so much has been lost.
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  #35  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2022, 9:16 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Another area with a concentration of art deco residential:
https://goo.gl/maps/nVEtfhYUwsqvVBry5

There are also a lot scattered at various points around the city, such as:
https://goo.gl/maps/EdJ6NjWHs33B2hbo6

But so much has been lost.
Those are some really beautiful apartment buildings. I hope what's left can be saved. If new construction really took off in these neighborhoods, the mix of the grand old buildings with the new would be pretty cool.

Cincinnati has a number of similar large, old apartment buildings, but no cohesive district of them ala Palmer Park. The closest comparison would be the Reading Road corridor in Avondale:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1454...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1507...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1510...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1555...7i16384!8i8192
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  #36  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2022, 10:04 PM
austlar1 austlar1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
They're mostly destroyed, but you'll see remnants. Dexter & Linwood corridors around Davison were the center. Basically west of Woodward, north of Grand Blvd. The old Jewish corridor.

It's hard to imagine, but this area used to be full of upper middle class, art-deco apartment buildings. Neighborhood was nice until the 1960's, and intact until the 1990's:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3856...7i16384!8i8192

The only semi-intact art deco apartment district is just south of Palmer Park, just north of McNichols, just west of Woodward. This was the gay district until the 1990's (I think still popular with AA gays?) and may still be salvageable:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4185...7i16384!8i8192
Thanks. I saw some of these buildings during other Google tours of Detroit, but I couldn't seem to zoom in on any of it today. Your post was very helpful. So were the suggestions posted by iheartthed. I wish I could have visited mid-20th Century Detroit.
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  #37  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2022, 11:09 PM
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Sep 25, 2022 at 6:52 PM.
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  #38  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2022, 4:08 AM
wanderer34 wanderer34 is offline
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Originally Posted by DCReid View Post
Wiki: "The period from 1800 to 1929 was one of considerable growth of the city, from 1,800 people in 1820 to 1.56 million in 1930 (2.3 million for the metropolitan area). During this period, a new road system had been created in 1805, a regional rail network was constructed, a thriving streetcar network developed and an emerging global motorcar industry was established in the city." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transp...litan_Detroit]

I would hope you would know what killed much of mass transit in Detroit...
Yes, the auto industry, and especially the Big Three had a hand in not only preventing a subway system from being built in Detroit but ripped a lot of the streetcar lines that permeated in the city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
We don't have to wonder what it would look like. They planned it over 100 years ago:



source: https://8woodblog.com/map-envisions-...onder-what-if/
The map looks nice but my plans would've had one line starting from Royal Oak but it wouldn't be under Woodward, it would have to follow the ROW, then deviate to John R in Detroit before heading to McNichols, and follow Woodward all the way to Downtown, then turn to Fort southwest to Wyandotte, and another route from Fairlane to Downtown (Campus Martius) via Michigan, then a turn south on Woodward, and a quick left along Jefferson to the Grosse Points and possibly to St Clair Shores.
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