Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3 - Page 330

esquire · #**6581** Posted **Oct 3, 2022, 9:43 PM**

Lansdowne is great, no question about it. But it has the benefit of effectively being grandfathered as part of an old fairground. If it didn't exist and Ottawa needed to create a new football stadium today, there is zero chance it would go where it is. So in that sense, while it is a great civic amenity, it is not really a great development model.

Djeffery · #**6582** Posted **Oct 3, 2022, 10:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas

Can canadian cities not do what American ones do and put a hotel tax or car rental tax to help pay for these?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Depends on the province. Usually no. And by most definitions, that would be public money.

In Ottawa's case, they should be able to, being in the same province as London, which has one. Our hotel tax is 4%, and provincial rules say at least half has to go to a tourism agency. Tourism London uses the money in bidding processes for various events, like the Country Music Awards last year, the Juno's a couple years ago or the Brier curling championships this coming winter. The other half goes into a city hall reserve fund meant to (not sure if it actually does, but is meant to) support upgrades to tourism infrastructure. Before Covid, the tax was expected to raise between 2 and 4 million a year.

WhipperSnapper · #**6583** Posted **Oct 4, 2022, 12:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

That's not quite true.

CWB is about to commence construction of their new national HQ on top of the podium on the west side of ICE District which will bring a few thousand to the area.

Planning/rezoning for phase 2/village is underway.
https://www.edmonton.ca/residential_...ase-2-rezoning

This has brought a lot of interest to the Downtown, although COVID has certainly sidetracked things.

The bigger issue was the misread of the market by the main developer, but this is very much an anchor to help attract more investment into the core and it makes it feel much bigger city than it is when there are events/games.

A major grocer is opening which will be a boon to the Downtown residential community and a new destination entertainment centre 'Banquet' is opening.

Certainly not perfect, but it was very much needed for Edmonton.

Are you saying that CWB would instead have built a suburban campus somewhere were it not for Rogers Centre? TIFs have become the go pitch to attract support from the public. They actually have a terrible record.

I was specifically referring to the image of crowded streets. Obviously, some have gone for food and drink before the game and now are on their way for a nightcap before transiting home. The places/patios in my neighbourhood stay busy before, during and, after the game. A stadium is like a central business district; a ghost town during off hours.

EpicPonyTime · #**6584** Posted **Oct 5, 2022, 1:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Are you saying that CWB would instead have built a suburban campus somewhere were it not for Rogers Centre? TIFs have become the go pitch to attract support from the public. They actually have a terrible record.

I was specifically referring to the image of crowded streets. Obviously, some have gone for food and drink before the game and now are on their way for a nightcap before transiting home. The places/patios in my neighbourhood stay busy before, during and, after the game. A stadium is like a central business district; a ghost town during off hours.

The Ice District really doesn't help itself by having an undeveloped lot immediately next to the arena. There's definitely been some improvements to the nightlife in the area that make it a bit more vibrant in summer, but that just comes with the overall redevelopment of the Ice District.

Coldrsx · #**6585** Posted **Oct 5, 2022, 2:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Are you saying that CWB would instead have built a suburban campus somewhere were it not for Rogers Centre? TIFs have become the go pitch to attract support from the public. They actually have a terrible record.

I was specifically referring to the image of crowded streets. Obviously, some have gone for food and drink before the game and now are on their way for a nightcap before transiting home. The places/patios in my neighbourhood stay busy before, during and, after the game. A stadium is like a central business district; a ghost town during off hours.

Of course not and it is a lot of musical chairs, but it drew a lot of attention, has moved many things forward much sooner than it would have otherwise and will provide the opportunity for Jasper Avenue to reinvent itself as things were pulled north.

Far from a silver bullet and certainly some loss from speculation, but on the whole it did this.

HomeInMyShoes · #**6586** Posted **Oct 5, 2022, 5:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Lansdowne is great, no question about it. But it has the benefit of effectively being grandfathered as part of an old fairground. If it didn't exist and Ottawa needed to create a new football stadium today, there is zero chance it would go where it is. So in that sense, while it is a great civic amenity, it is not really a great development model.

It is a great model in how not to throw away what you do have though.

WhipperSnapper · #**6587** Posted **Oct 5, 2022, 7:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Of course not and it is a lot of musical chairs, but it drew a lot of attention, has moved many things forward much sooner than it would have otherwise and will provide the opportunity for Jasper Avenue to reinvent itself as things were pulled north.

Far from a silver bullet and certainly some loss from speculation, but on the whole it did this.

I can agree with that. I'm just as critical of $200 million in public funds spent on an opera house to which only the 1% can afford to go regularly. Rogers has been overhyped, in particular, the financing plan and the billions in development as if the majority of the development wouldn't have happen anyways. The fact that no new residential has started since The Sky Residences means that, the arena and broader stadium district hasn't, as of this moment, created a new market for downtown living.

Harrison · #**6588** Posted **Oct 5, 2022, 8:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I can agree with that. I'm just as critical of $200 million in public funds spent on an opera house to which only the 1% can afford to go regularly. Rogers has been overhyped, in particular, the financing plan and the billions in development as if the majority of the development wouldn't have happen anyways. The fact that no new residential has started since The Sky Residences means that, the arena and broader stadium district hasn't, as of this moment, created a new market for downtown living.

No new residences within the immediate Ice District, sure, but there have been multiple new projects in the immediate vicinity of it, which all market as being close to ('live walking distance to the ICE District, Rogers Place, etc.').

Coldrsx · #**6589** Posted **Oct 5, 2022, 11:08 PM**

I spoke with a handful of developers directly who made investments in and around the Downtown because of the 'hype' and momentum from Rogers + Stantec + ICE.

That said, it's not the silver bullet.

thurmas · #**6590** Posted **Oct 6, 2022, 9:19 PM**

https://illegalcurve.com/the-old-win...-in-lego-form/

The old Winnipeg Arena has returned in Lego form

Video Description:

A local Jets fan decided to pay homage to his team by painstakingly building the old arena…out of bricks. Lego bricks that is. Winnipegger Scott Templeton wanted to pay homage to his favourite team, The Jets. So he did it in the best way he knows how….. by using Lego! Scott painstakingly created the old Winnipeg Arena — home to the Jets until 1996 — lego brick by lego brick. Even though he is too young to have ever seen a game there.

craner · #**6591** Posted **Oct 7, 2022, 5:59 AM**

^That’s really cool.
I used to love building Lego stadiums and arenas myself back in the day.

esquire · #**6592** Posted **Oct 7, 2022, 12:49 PM**

The attention to detail is really exceptional. I love it.

Coldrsx · #**6593** Posted **Oct 7, 2022, 3:14 PM**

That's really amazing stuff; while I played with lego a ton, I'd never have the dedication to get to this level.

ScreamingViking · #**6594** Posted **Oct 7, 2022, 3:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

That's really amazing stuff; while I played with lego a ton, I'd never have the dedication to get to this level.

Unless it is sold as a "kit" I doubt many Lego users would have the creativity to do it, either.

My nephew (12 now) became a master at quickly putting together massive Lego sets for Star Wars and other themed builds... get him one as a gift and he'd often have it together within a couple of hours. Has he ever built something from his own imagination, using the same pieces? Not that I've seen.

It's unfortunate.

I love the detail in that arena model too.

jonny24 · #**6595** Posted **Oct 11, 2022, 3:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Unless it is sold as a "kit" I doubt many Lego users would have the creativity to do it, either.

My nephew (12 now) became a master at quickly putting together massive Lego sets for Star Wars and other themed builds... get him one as a gift and he'd often have it together within a couple of hours. Has he ever built something from his own imagination, using the same pieces? Not that I've seen.

It's unfortunate.

I love the detail in that arena model too.

I used to barely have a set together before it would be apart again making something else. LEGO was the only toy I'd buy from when I was ~7 with my own allowance money until I was into high school.

I've tried nowadays now that I have big-boy paycheques and could in theory buy whatever I wanted. But now I'm too much of a perfectionist, the few times I've tried to make models of something in real life, I get too bogged down in nailing the details, and don't actually get anywhere. I need to go all the way off the deep end, designing ahead of time digitally, ordering specific parts, etc. And I have too many other hobbies, not enough space, and still not enough money, so I have to leave that part of me be, and build the sets I get for Christmas and put them on the shelf.

I still go around my daily life looking at things like lamp posts and awnings and stuff and picture how I'm make them out of Lego though.

Djeffery · #**6596** Posted **Oct 11, 2022, 10:02 PM**

Rogers Centre renovations underway..

https://twitter.com/iananywhere/stat...12595594563584

Djeffery · #**6597** Posted **Oct 12, 2022, 12:39 AM**

Speaking of Rogers Centre, when they put the new turf field in a couple years ago, they donated the old turf to Dorchester Ontario, just outside of London, and today they had the ribbon cutting for their new baseball field.

https://london.ctvnews.ca/a-real-sta...ario-1.6104608