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  #1141  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 7:58 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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You can do things like allow it to stay up for 5 years after. The big thing for me is you need to have a corridor identified if you're going to build a segment of it.
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  #1142  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2019, 12:23 AM
Jaspertf Jaspertf is offline
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Hyperloop/Transpod will work, but will it cost CAD 6 billion?

In layman's terms what is Hyperloop/Transpod? It is an object travelling at high speed in a vacuum. Why a vacuum? A vacuum has little to no air, air creates resistance (aerodynamic drag), if there is no air there is no drag and objects can travel at much high speeds. Think of space travel.

However when it comes to passengers, we need air to breathe, so for passengers Hyperloop/Transpod becomes a pressurized vehicle travelling in a vacuum tube.

What is an object that operates with an interior pressure greater than the exterior? An aeroplane.

What is an object that operates with an interior pressure less than the exterior? A submarine.

What is the fastest form of propulsion? Electro-magnetic.

So an aeroplane propelled by mag-lev, inside a submarine.

As temperatures get colder, all metals and materials become more brittle and susceptible to fracturing. Over the past winter both CP and CN have been operating their trains at slow speeds to prevent breaking rails, causing the grain backlog. Ski hills will shutdown chair lifts below -20degC, to prevent cables snapping.

Also the temperature expansion coefficient of steel pipes per degree change of temperature is a constant 14x10-6 m/mdegC. The distance between Calgary and Edmonton is approx. 300km, the temperature variation over 1 year can go from +35 in summer to -40 in winter, a 75 degC temperature change. Over the course of a year in Alberta, an exposed carbon steel pipe from Calgary to Edmonton will expand/contract 135 meters.
All materials expand and contract with temperature changes:
Fiberglass would expand/contract 230m over 300km.
PVC would expand/contract 675m over 300km.
CPVC would expand/contract 855m over 300km.

The temperature in the Prairies gets below -40degC in the winter. The frost level in Alberta is considered to be 3.0m, all water utilities are buried below 3m in the ground to prevent freezing.

To work effectively in Alberta, Hyperloop/Transpod would have to be underground. Also with a speed of 1000kph it would have to be dead straight, which can easily be achieved with tunnelling.

So will Transpod cost CAD6billion between Calgary and Edmonton?

A simple train tunnel costs CAD20million per km, Crossrail is costing more. A Transpod tunnel would also need to be sealed in order to maintain a vacuum, and this does not include the mag-lev propulsion technology or the construction of the terminals and pods.

For a quick relevant example, Tokyo to Nagoya mag-lev. The direct route is 286km with the majority in a tunnel, it is currently estimated at JPY5.1Trillion or CAD 60 Billion.

Hyperloop/Transpod is a fantastic idea and a great use of technology, but it will be a massive white elephant for Alberta. The population of Tokyo and Nagoya is 47 million, the best place for this technology in North America is in the North East Corridor between Washington DC and New York.
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Last edited by Jaspertf; Nov 27, 2019 at 1:54 AM.
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  #1143  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2019, 2:33 PM
milomilo milomilo is online now
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It looks to me there are more problems with Hyperloop than just the expansion issues you describe, but it's true that putting it in a tunnel solves a lot of the problems. But, as you point out, once you put it in tunnel, the claim of low cost (also a lie in the first place) instantly evaporates.
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  #1144  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2019, 4:29 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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If they can raise the money. who are we to complain? It is when the corridor is identified, and they approach the government yet again for the seed funds because they can't raise funds for a test track that we should say no.
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  #1145  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2019, 9:00 PM
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technomad technomad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe498 View Post
Proponents of Calgary-to-Edmonton magnet tube transporter seek provincial nod

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...0-947354af17f4
yawn.. I'd say I couldn't tell if this sideshow was more hype or cringe, but this quote from the article settled it for me

Quote:
All told, it would boost a struggling provincial economy by directly creating 14,500 jobs when fully operational, said TransPod.
quite a feat for an automated train

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
If they can raise the money. who are we to complain? It is when the corridor is identified, and they approach the government yet again for the seed funds because they can't raise funds for a test track that we should say no.
also fta:

Quote:
To that end, the European Union has offered $30 million CDN for research and development, while the Alberta project would be funded partly by the Canada Infrastructure Fund and pension funds, said Gendron.

In 2018, the company suggested the city’s $100 million economic development fund would have been a natural fit for the proposal but nothing came of that.
just more slow news day bullshit from hucksters looking to spend other peoples money...

reminder that the 'hyperloop' concept has been kicking around since the early 70s, tho it was called 'planetran' at the time

1978: https://www.rand.org/pubs/papers/P6092.html
1972: https://www.rand.org/pubs/papers/P4874.html

as per the whitepapers the secret ingredient to making a sealed tunnel like that work was nothing less than an atomic powered TBM


(maybe if Nenshi asks nicely the yanks would loan it out for green line?)

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3693731A/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3885832A/en

given how long ago this was conceived and the people behind the R&D, I think it's safe to assume that at least part of this network already exists, and likely has for decades...



additional reminder that the surface world has essentially become purgatory, where nothing truly interesting ever happens
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