DETROIT | Hudson's Detroit | 685 FT & 240 FT | 49 & 14 FLOORS

[animatedmartian]

Regarding people's antsy-ness, it's a combination of things, I think;

1. High rise construction occurs very seldomly in Detroit especially any of a major prominence, this leads people eager to see new ones built and focus on the few that are proposed

2. There was many announced projects back during 2005-2008 and years thereafter that never came to fruition leading locals/critics to be skeptical of any project that takes a long time to get started/completed if at all

3. A number of major developments have set the trend for actually being completed fairly quickly when in reality they were in the limelight later in the development process; for example, the then named Compuware Headqaurters (now One Campus Martius) broke ground in 2000 and was completed by 2003. Can't really find any news articles older than 2000 about the process, but as early as 1998 there were vague proposals on redeveloping the area around Campus Martius Park which was just a massive intersection with large parking lots and green space back then. Even the major sports stadiums - Comerica Park, Ford Field, and most recently Little Ceasers Arena - took only a couple of respective years from groundbreaking to completion. And still kind of quick when you consider the red tape process beforehand. Comerica Park and Ford Field both were announced in 1996 and started construction about 4-5 years later. The Ren Cen as well was announced in 1970 and started construction 3 years later.

By comparison, articles dating back to 2011 mention Dan Gilbert showing interest in the Hudson's site. Nothing was really official until 2013 but even then it was expected that construction would start in 2016. Then in 2017 the project got bigger and now we're in 2019 and cassions are being drilled but the design isn't 100% finalized yet? At the very least, it still feels like there's a possibility something could delay the completion of this project just based on its history.

Dan Gilbert presents the oddity of being an involved developer but dragging a project out without it somehow ending up as a dead proposal. Normally for Detroit, it's either just an up-in-the-air proposal or already under construction for better or for worse.

[Fvn]

^^^Well said. Had those thoughts myself but figured someone else would have a better time explaining it

[LMich]

You actually said it better, Fvn. The project is still very much on the schedule it was planned on when that schedule was released last year. As you said, this one has required quite a bit of foundation work. There has been constant construction since they cleared away the garage, which was a project in and of itself.

People need to stop pushing false information that this is dragging. Like any project, it could very well get killed in a recession. That hasn't happened, and the project is not behind schedule. The only unsual thing about this project is its sheer height and the site, but that obviously hasn't complicated much of anything. There is this bizarre narrative by the impatient that nothing is going on. Bedrock is not wasting millions of dollars in construction equipment and man-hours to push around dirt to keep up appearances. No developer does that, and Dan Gilbert sure as hell isn't the kind of guy who'd do something like that.

[Warrenite84]

The history of failed projects goes back to the Great Depression. The Fisher Building was about to get a much larger tower to the West, and the Book Brothers were planning on an 81 story building on Washington Blv. prior the economy imploding in 1929.

With this economic expansion nearing record territory, I can see why so many are antsy to see this built before scaled back plans are used to complete it in an economic downturn.

[DetroitRises]

Dan Gilbert is so invested in Downtown that the only holdup in final design announcements may be whether he has the tenants and money lined up to take this project over 1000ft. Current construction appears to be quite active and on schedule. The only changes appear to be due to the increasing scale of the project.

[Fvn]

Originally Posted by LMich

You actually said it better, Fvn. The project is still very much on the schedule it was planned on when that schedule was released last year. As you said, this one has required quite a bit of foundation work. There has been constant construction since they cleared away the garage, which was a project in and of itself.

Thanks

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by LMich

You actually said it better, Fvn. The project is still very much on the schedule it was planned on when that schedule was released last year. As you said, this one has required quite a bit of foundation work. There has been constant construction since they cleared away the garage, which was a project in and of itself.

People need to stop pushing false information that this is dragging. Like any project, it could very well get killed in a recession. That hasn't happened, and the project is not behind schedule. The only unsual thing about this project is its sheer height and the site, but that obviously hasn't complicated much of anything. There is this bizarre narrative by the impatient that nothing is going on. Bedrock is not wasting millions of dollars in construction equipment and man-hours to push around dirt to keep up appearances. No developer does that, and Dan Gilbert sure as hell isn't the kind of guy who'd do something like that.

That's partly the fault of Dan Gilbert's own communication style. He likes to hype up projects and usually announces his moves a short time before they're started making them seem like it happened overnight.

Even Gilbert himself said "There's been two buildings higher than twenty-five stories that have been constructed in downtown Detroit since the 1980s. Two!" Gilbert said at an event at the North American International Auto Show. " I think you'll see ten or fifteen of those in the next five to seven years that are built."

That was in 2017. Granted that's only two years since hes made that statement, but it may have been an ill-worded one since the only couple of new high rises with any certainty of being built are his; Hudson's and the Monroe Block. That's all fine and dandy, but his statement can be interpreted as if he was expecting or wanted to create the expectation a high rise boom was coming to Detroit. Was he hinting that a lot of the new high rise projects would be his? Maybe he figured other developers would hop into the city?

Either way, he himself kind of got everyone all excited like Detroit is about to ramp up speed but then reality sets in and although Hudson's is "on-schedule" after a year from groundbreaking, it and the Monroe Block are the only two high rise projects (or rather anything above 25 stories) anyone can focus on.

And I can go on a whole separate tangent about the "tenant tease" that seemingly hypes the project up even more because some mysterious big-name company wants to create a presence in Detroit but also keep it a secret because... excitement?

Whatever, the project is "on-schedule" but the PR is all over the place and that makes it easy for people to wonder what's going on behind the scenes. We're supposed to be excited but they're also taking their time because they want to make it perfect but then I guess we're just supposed to be happy anything is happening at all because there's a risk the project won't be perfect and people will lose faith in the city? Okay.

[LMich]

March 6

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Sort of crazy to watch how much they appear to be shoring up or reinforcing the floor of the pit. Or at least I think that's what they are doing. The kind of tetris shapes they appear to be cutting into the floor might also be a path for utilities. I have no idea.

The drill appears to have been more active on Monday and Tuesday, where they appeared to be drilling along the perimeter. It's always interesting watching that work.

[Fvn]

Originally Posted by LMich

Sort of crazy to watch how much they appear to be shoring up or reinforcing the floor of the pit. Or at least I think that's what they are doing. The kind of tetris shapes they appear to be cutting into the floor might also be a path for utilities. I have no idea.

I would say less reinforcing and more just adding completely new foundations. I think the only thing the original foundation mat will be once all said and done is the basement floor. I think they aren't removing it all to save on money and time.

Footing shapes can be interesting... The longer cuts are probably for grade beams/shear wall footings. Lots are just small squares for the columns. The one they were working on in the video looks like it could be for an elevator core.

There's also the chance that they build all the new footings and then lay utilities on top of the old mat and backfill with gravel (maybe even crush up the old concrete that's already down there) and then ontop a slab on grade. That way its easier to replace if they ever need. Because usually, you don't want to have utilities buried in footings.

[Tiorted9]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

That's partly the fault of Dan Gilbert's own communication style. He likes to hype up projects and usually announces his moves a short time before they're started making them seem like it happened overnight.

Even Gilbert himself said "There's been two buildings higher than twenty-five stories that have been constructed in downtown Detroit since the 1980s. Two!" Gilbert said at an event at the North American International Auto Show. " I think you'll see ten or fifteen of those in the next five to seven years that are built."

That was in 2017. Granted that's only two years since hes made that statement, but it may have been an ill-worded one since the only couple of new high rises with any certainty of being built are his; Hudson's and the Monroe Block. That's all fine and dandy, but his statement can be interpreted as if he was expecting or wanted to create the expectation a high rise boom was coming to Detroit. Was he hinting that a lot of the new high rise projects would be his? Maybe he figured other developers would hop into the city?

Either way, he himself kind of got everyone all excited like Detroit is about to ramp up speed but then reality sets in and although Hudson's is "on-schedule" after a year from groundbreaking, it and the Monroe Block are the only two high rise projects (or rather anything above 25 stories) anyone can focus on.

And I can go on a whole separate tangent about the "tenant tease" that seemingly hypes the project up even more because some mysterious big-name company wants to create a presence in Detroit but also keep it a secret because... excitement?

Whatever, the project is "on-schedule" but the PR is all over the place and that makes it easy for people to wonder what's going on behind the scenes. We're supposed to be excited but they're also taking their time because they want to make it perfect but then I guess we're just supposed to be happy anything is happening at all because there's a risk the project won't be perfect and people will lose faith in the city? Okay.

I have no information regarding another developer jumping in on Detroit, but it would be nice if NYC developer Stephen Ross took up a project in his hometown. I believe the man has deeper pockets than Dan Gilbert. I'm sure he is aware of the Bedrock projects

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by Tiorted9

I have no information regarding another developer jumping in on Detroit, but it would be nice if NYC developer Stephen Ross took up a project in his hometown. I believe the man has deeper pockets than Dan Gilbert. I'm sure he is aware of the Bedrock projects

Any developers of that caliber would probably wait and see what happens with this project. Gilbert has said he expects a loss for the first few years after this project is completed and I don't think anyone on his level wants to deal with a negative ROI. At least not when investing in Detroit.

There are other developers in the area already, but most of them are doing smaller mid-rise projects and playing it safe.

[DetroitSportsFan]

It looks like they’ve finally started clearing out the extra dirt/debris from the pit. They’ve had 2-3 excavators filling up trucks for the past few days now.

[LMich]

I noticed on yesterday's video for the first time them adding the steel caging reinforcement to the foundation. It happens a bit before the 2:00 mark before the camera conveniently goes haywire so that you can't see them actually putting it down in the north part of the pit. But you see them stand it up and move it over to the location.

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I don't know if this is the first time they've done this as the videos are rather new and I have not watched them all, but it's the first time I saw that. Works with the schedule that steel will be there next month or in may.

And, yeah, you can also see them really clearing up the pile in the southwest corner. Things do appear to be speeding up. When the steel comes things will really start to pick up.

[DetroitSportsFan]

Yeah, at this pace I’d be shocked if they aren’t started on the parking garage by end of May/ start of June.

[DetroitSky]

The project seems to be going on schedule. I've been watching the YouTube videos and the workers have built a ramp on the northeast corner in preparation for the tower structure to start rising at the south end of the site. They've been picking up the pace with caisson drilling as well on the south end.

Unfortunately it is really difficult to photograph the site from anywhere except the Z garage now as banners are entirely wrapping the site. The YouTube videos are about the best we're going to get until steel starts rising above the fences.

[chris08876]

• Video Link
HudsonSite Construction
Published on Apr 15, 2019

[subterranean]

It seems like there has got to be a faster way of removing the base concrete layer than using a couple excavators. I feel like this base prep is taking forevvver.

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally Posted by subterranean

It seems like there has got to be a faster way of removing the base concrete layer than using a couple excavators. I feel like this base prep is taking forevvver.

Yeah, I noticed that too. Definitely seems to be moving slowly. So how is construction of this going to work, won’t they need to clear the entire pit to build the garage first?

[DetroitRises]

Originally Posted by subterranean

It seems like there has got to be a faster way of removing the base concrete layer than using a couple excavators. I feel like this base prep is taking forevvver.

Best constructed garage floor ever.....

I’ve been wondering the same thing, but then I keep telling myself the rubble conceals the actual progress and once foundation work is done more excavators can be brought into speed up so they’re still on schedule even if the whole floor needs to be removed, if only bedrock provided updates.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

Yeah, I noticed that too. Definitely seems to be moving slowly. So how is construction of this going to work, won’t they need to clear the entire pit to build the garage first?

No they only need to remove spots for drilling. They're only removing a section for the core, this project obviously faces a lot of unique circumstances. They're nearly done now.

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