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  #1361  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2020, 1:58 PM
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No, rail planning has been basically nil under the Trump administration (and even the last years of Obama, after the stimulus ran out). Even then, train routes crossing a border are seemingly not a priority because Homeland Security is unable/unwilling to guarantee quick inspections at migration/customs.
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  #1362  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 9:57 PM
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TCMC Twin Cities Milwaukee Chicago Rail Project

The TCMC https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/proje...odal/tcmc.aspx Gets another round of grant money. This time $31.8M

A joint Wisconsin-Minnesota passenger rail project designed to enhance connectivity between the Twin Cities, La Crosse, Milwaukee and Chicago is to receive a $31.8 million federal rail grant, the Wisconsin Department of Transportation announced. https://biztimes.com/wisconsin-minne...federal-grant/

Seems they have scored quite a few grants in the past 12 months. Not sure if it is fully funded. But I know they got some money for the Milwaukee Airport 2nd platform and the Muskego Yards Rail bypass and some new pax cars.

Earlier this year, FRA provided a $12.6 million grant for operating support to offset the cost of the first three years of service.

Planning for TCMC service began in 2012 when project partners requested Amtrak assess the feasibility of providing a state-supported second round trip intercity passenger train service between the Twin Cities and Chicago Union Station.

Amtrak completed its study in 2015, and its findings indicated favorable ridership and revenue projects. This provided the premise for a more detailed study of the proposed service.

WisDOT is also working with its counterpart in Illinois and Amtrak to add more round trips to the Hiawatha service. The department earlier this year sought public input on the proposed Muskego Yard bypass project, which is one of several projects that would allow Hiawatha to expand to 10 daily trips. The Muskego Yard is a railyard location in Milwaukee’s Menomonee Valley.

Last year, WisDOT was also awarded a separate $25.7 million grant to purchase new passenger rail cars for use on the Hiawatha service. The new cars will add seats to the Hiawatha and cut costs related to its operation
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  #1363  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2020, 2:10 AM
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  #1364  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2020, 4:41 AM
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Originally Posted by seabee1526 View Post
Any word on the Chicago-Detroit-Toronto loop?
On the US side, while MDOT is slowly working on improvements to the rails between Kalamazoo and Dearborn, the South of the Lake proposal, which would greatly benefit most passenger rail routes running south and east from Chicago (including to Detroit), has all but faded from memory.

On the Canada side, Doug Ford and the Progressive Conservatives, in a move to please the rural vote that made Ford Premier of Ontario, stuck a shiv in the Windsor-to-Toronto high speed rail plan last year.
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  #1365  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2020, 2:37 PM
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  #1366  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2020, 8:13 PM
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Most of SOTL lies within Indiana, and they're sure as hell not gonna fund more than a tiny percentage of it.
Once the rest of the line is high-speed, how much pressure would there be on Indiana to improve their section? It will be pretty striking going from 150 mph to 60.
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  #1367  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2020, 8:37 PM
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That's not really how this works. First, none of the Amtrak lines passing thru Indiana will even come close to 150mph... I think a few short sections of the Michigan Line are at 125mph but the trains don't actually hit that in regular service. Even if they did, the problem in Indiana is NOT speed limits but conflicts with freight trains.

Second... the number of people who ride Amtrak is not enough to create any kind of political pressure at the state level. It's a small number of riders and they are split among multiple states. Usually the demand to invest in rail service comes from the cities and towns who see the benefits, not from individuals. Notably, the study for SOTL was done "in partnership with" IL, IN and MI but it was Michigan who paid for the study, since they stood to benefit the most. The problem is, Michigan DOT can't fund a project in Indiana. All they can do is make a good case for it, and hope the Feds come in with full funding so Indiana doesn't have to spend a dime.
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  #1368  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 12:20 AM
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Something the founding fathers probably couldn't foresee.
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  #1369  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 2:00 PM
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Who knows, Biden loves the train, maybe if he wins this stuff gets more funding. We have Durbin in our corner to, he likes to get us funding for this stuff. Indiana probably STILL would not do it though. Like when the govs of Wisconsin and Ohio turned down rail funding...short sighted political grandstanding.
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  #1370  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 4:06 PM
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Who knows, Biden loves the train, maybe if he wins this stuff gets more funding. We have Durbin in our corner to, he likes to get us funding for this stuff. Indiana probably STILL would not do it though. Like when the govs of Wisconsin and Ohio turned down rail funding...short sighted political grandstanding.
omg we were thisclose to livin the dream of a 3C's commuter train in ohio. nitwits -- phooey!

btw -- ohio hasn't had a commuter train since the cleveland-youngstown line shut down in the early 80s.
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  #1371  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 4:33 PM
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Yeah, Ohio turned down rail funding - when Kasich was governor. You know, the same Kasich that just spoke at the Democratic convention and is supporting Biden for president. Not sure this has any significance for Biden's rail plans, but certainly ironic.

I'm not sure if a Biden administration would see the same level of obstructionism from red/purple states that we saw under Obama, but I'm not optimistic. There is even less bipartisanship now than there was back then.

For SOTL, I think Indiana might be open to it if the Feds provide funding. Northwest Indiana is already a place with established Amtrak service (some of it very successful) as well as South Shore service. They recently supported an expansion of South Shore with a new branch. So they're not totally hostile to rail, and rail service that is Chicago-bound is something with a proven history of success in Indiana. If SOTL can be done with the full support of freight railroads (mainly CSX) even better. On the other hand, they have been totally unwilling to support the Hoosier trains that go Chicago to Indianapolis.
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  #1372  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 5:41 PM
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If Biden is elected, I hope Congress will authorize proper rail funding again. I'm sure the planners have not forgotten about SOTL. However, the plan may need to be re-designed since NS continues to use Park Manor Yard at 63rd/State, which is a key source of freight conflicts for SOTL. If NS ever builds their Englewood yard expansion, hopefully Park Manor can be closed and Amtrak trains routed up the Rock Island to 40th St and then into Union Station. If not, then planners may need to look at the St Charles Air Line again and see if CN is willing to sell.
Well, Biden was elected, and Congress does seem like they will authorize proper rail funding again.

I had a chance to ask about the latest on South Side reroutes at a lunch presentation last week. It seems like the planners are looking at the Rock Island corridor even more intently for all Amtrak service to points south and east, including St Louis trains, Carbondale/New Orleans trains, Michigan trains and East Coast trains. St Louis trains would be routed onto Rock Island at Joliet, the other trains at 63rd St. New Orleans and Carbondale trains would need the south half of the Grand Crossing project built, but not the north half that destroys Englewood.

The original plan for St Louis trains was to send them up Rock Island and over to Metra's SWS tracks at 40th St into Union Station, but they confirmed they are looking into a connection at 16th St, either on or next to the St Charles Air Line (I assume using the abandoned north bridge). Unfortunately it seems that continuing to use and improve CN's lakefront corridor along Metra Electric is a non-starter with CN, even though they just rebuilt the bridges through the South Loop.

Metra's also been whispering about electrifying Rock Island - I wonder if they need to do that to make the schedules work once all the intercity trains are added? The sloooow acceleration of the diesel trains in local service doesn't mesh well with Amtrak trains that are flying through.

Not much word on South of the Lake, though. I think Michigan took the lead on that under Gov. Snyder, but I dunno if Gov. Whitmer is a rail supporter.
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  #1373  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 5:47 PM
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They also mentioned a few neat things in the presentation:

-new Siemens Venture railcars entering service this summer, but they did not commit to an exact date

-once the trains in service are Chargers + Venture, the Detroit and St. Louis lines will start operating at higher speed in regular service (they said 90mph for St Louis and 110mph for Detroit)

-new railcars will include dedicated bike storage, which opens up a lot more trip potential for cyclists
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  #1374  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 10:01 PM
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Well, Biden was elected, and Congress does seem like they will authorize proper rail funding again.

I had a chance to ask about the latest on South Side reroutes at a lunch presentation last week. It seems like the planners are looking at the Rock Island corridor even more intently for all Amtrak service to points south and east, including St Louis trains, Carbondale/New Orleans trains, Michigan trains and East Coast trains. St Louis trains would be routed onto Rock Island at Joliet, the other trains at 63rd St. New Orleans and Carbondale trains would need the south half of the Grand Crossing project built, but not the north half that destroys Englewood.

The original plan for St Louis trains was to send them up Rock Island and over to Metra's SWS tracks at 40th St into Union Station, but they confirmed they are looking into a connection at 16th St, either on or next to the St Charles Air Line (I assume using the abandoned north bridge). Unfortunately it seems that continuing to use and improve CN's lakefront corridor along Metra Electric is a non-starter with CN, even though they just rebuilt the bridges through the South Loop.

Metra's also been whispering about electrifying Rock Island - I wonder if they need to do that to make the schedules work once all the intercity trains are added? The sloooow acceleration of the diesel trains in local service doesn't mesh well with Amtrak trains that are flying through.

Not much word on South of the Lake, though. I think Michigan took the lead on that under Gov. Snyder, but I dunno if Gov. Whitmer is a rail supporter.
Marc Magliari does allude to South of the Lake without mentioning it by name. He describes how the Englewood Flyover (P1) was constructed to allow for a dedicated passenger line into Union Station, and also talked about one day utilizing the abandoned right-of-way (which parallels the Chicago Skyway) that the NY Central and Pennsy once used to "race into Chicago". This may be one project that Amtrak eventually takes the lead on if Michigan continues to falter.

Regarding the 16th Street Connector, I wonder if the problem with running Metra Electric trains onto the connector would have more to do with potential conflicts with Rock Island and Southwest Service trains at 16th Street Interlocking. I recall, at one point, the High Speed Rail Alliance, the host of the presentation, suggesting a flyover solution at 16th Street Interlocking, which would make a connector serving the Electric and Rock Island lines simultaneously a lot more difficult and expensive.

Also mentioned in the presentation-

The Fred Harvey lunch room has been "roughed in" but COVID had temporarily put the brakes on seeking a food hall operator.

The new Clinton Street entrance into the head house is nearly ready, and once CDOT finishes re-configuring Clinton Street (including providing a mid-block crosswalk) the new entrance will be opened.

The reconstruction of the Canal Street viaduct is, according to the CDOT rep, supposed to commence late this year, lasting 3 to 4 years, which makes opening the new entrance along Clinton far more important.

Here's the presentation, by the way-
Video Link
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  #1375  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 10:31 PM
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Marc Magliari does allude to South of the Lake without mentioning it by name. He describes how the Englewood Flyover (P1) was constructed to allow for a dedicated passenger line into Union Station, and also talked about one day utilizing the abandoned right-of-way (which parallels the Chicago Skyway) that the NY Central and Pennsy once used to "race into Chicago". This may be one project that Amtrak eventually takes the lead on if Michigan continues to falter.
Yeah it was alluded to, but no mention of resuming the planning or going into environmental review. On the other hand I dunno how they're gonna provide the service increases in their 2035 map without creating a dedicated path out of Chicago.

Also Marc Magliari is a great spokesperson, the guy sounds like Bill Kurtis.
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  #1376  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 6:45 PM
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They also mentioned a few neat things in the presentation:

-new Siemens Venture railcars entering service this summer, but they did not commit to an exact date

-once the trains in service are Chargers + Venture, the Detroit and St. Louis lines will start operating at higher speed in regular service (they said 90mph for St Louis and 110mph for Detroit)

-new railcars will include dedicated bike storage, which opens up a lot more trip potential for cyclists
A couple questions:

Why is St. Louis still only traveling at 90mph instead of 110mph? I thought they implemented PTC already? Also, anyone know what total travel times will be once all the 110mph upgrades are done?

For Detroit, does that include the entire Amtrak owned portion of the corridor? Also, anyone know what total travel times will be once all the 110mph upgrades are done?
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  #1377  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 7:01 PM
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Why is St. Louis still only traveling at 90mph instead of 110mph? I thought they implemented PTC already? Also, anyone know what total travel times will be once all the 110mph upgrades are done?
The short answer is that they screwed up and realized too late that the PTC system they were using would be insufficient for 110 mph. There was a talk a few months ago by High Speed Rail Alliance discussing more in depth about this problem, which I've included below. The timestamp is at 28:38

Video Link

https://youtu.be/YA0VJz_S18w?t=1718
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  #1378  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2021, 3:11 PM
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For Detroit, does that include the entire Amtrak owned portion of the corridor? Also, anyone know what total travel times will be once all the 110mph upgrades are done?
It's a bit confusing, I looked into it a bit. The Amtrak portion (Porter to Kalamazoo) was upgraded to 110mph back in 2012 and has been running at that speed in regular service.

The state-owned portion (Kalamazoo to Dearborn) is slated for 110mph service eventually and the PTC was put in place to support this goal, but the track is still a limiting factor (and probably curves, bridges, etc). This line will be upgraded to 110mph speeds one section at a time but funding and progress is slow and I haven't seen an estimated completion date.
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  #1379  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2021, 2:26 AM
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The short answer is that they screwed up and realized too late that the PTC system they were using would be insufficient for 110 mph. There was a talk a few months ago by High Speed Rail Alliance discussing more in depth about this problem, which I've included below. The timestamp is at 28:38

Video Link

https://youtu.be/YA0VJz_S18w?t=1718
Thanks for the info and the link. It sounds like a mess, although Rick Harnish seemed to think there was a solution (despite being unwilling to go on the record about what it is). If they figure that out, the plan is for travel times of ~4.5 hours right?
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  #1380  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2021, 2:32 AM
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It's a bit confusing, I looked into it a bit. The Amtrak portion (Porter to Kalamazoo) was upgraded to 110mph back in 2012 and has been running at that speed in regular service.

The state-owned portion (Kalamazoo to Dearborn) is slated for 110mph service eventually and the PTC was put in place to support this goal, but the track is still a limiting factor (and probably curves, bridges, etc). This line will be upgraded to 110mph speeds one section at a time but funding and progress is slow and I haven't seen an estimated completion date.
Thanks for the info! If the Kalamazoo to Chicago portion can replicate the Kalamazoo to Detroit portion after upgrades are complete, it seems like this should be able to achieve a similar trip time to the planned St. Louis to Chicago time (with 110mph speeds), ~4.5 hours.

Those aren't great trip times, but at least it's competitive with/superior to car times. I know the argument that we need to build a culture of intercity train travel in order to achieve better times, but it's hard to imagine that culture emerging without service that is at least somewhat competitive with air travel.
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