ERIE | Development Projects Thread

[DFWCC8]

I've heard it (18th & Peach) is to be a lower end KNIGHTS INN. Don't think the new owners want to compete with the bayfront hotels. They have that LERTA tax abatement
so they won't need much bed cap % to crank a profit.
Think it'll fit in cheap beds for out of towner fans coming to sporting events that hit the bars after the game just for a place to crash.
We've got the Otters, Seawolves, Bayhawks, and the College teams.
Just a thought

[pj3000]

Regardless of whatever low-end brand it turns out to be, a low-end, "budget" motel is not going to do much for the surrounding area. So it really doesn't matter.

The new owners are doing a basic gut reno to last 10 years. They'll make their money. It will get trashed, and they'll sell it to the next fleabag motel owner. And there's zero incentive to do anything better with the property because the surroundings are one of the ugliest, uninviting landscapes in the entire city (which is saying something).

If the city actually took an interest in revitalizing the area between 18th and 14th and Sass and French, then we might have seen a more significant and valuable investment by the property owner. But since that hasn't happened, the city will get a Knights Inn.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by DFWCC8

Think it'll fit in cheap beds for out of towner fans coming to sporting events that hit the bars after the game just for a place to crash.
We've got the Otters, Seawolves, Bayhawks, and the College teams.
Just a thought

I could very well be wrong, but I doubt that the out-of-town sportsfan demographic coming to Erie and staying over night at a budget motel isn't too large. Where are they coming in from... Corry? Titusville? Visiting college teams' fans from further afield likely stay over night, but they're not staying at a Knights Inn in a seedy part of town.

This is a 'grab the tax breaks and divest your interests in it when those tax breaks run out' situation. EPD will be once again regulars at this hotel within the first year of operation.

[pj3000]

Some good detail of the EDDC renovation work to the buildings on N Park Row. Not sure what the fate of "Marlena Place" will be... as some renderings show it removed for a larger building which replace it, Coconut Joe's, and the old Greyhound station, and other renderings display a restored version of it, along with additional smaller buildings replacing Joe's and the Greyhound station.

I imagine they're still figuring it all out.



This:


vs. this:

[jFug]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I could very well be wrong, but I doubt that the out-of-town sportsfan demographic coming to Erie and staying over night at a budget motel isn't too large. Where are they coming in from... Corry? Titusville? Visiting college teams' fans from further afield likely stay over night, but they're not staying at a Knights Inn in a seedy part of town.

This is a 'grab the tax breaks and divest your interests in it when those tax breaks run out' situation. EPD will be once again regulars at this hotel within the first year of operation.

If that's how it plays out, that will be a real shame.

While, yes, that part of town is not great, actually putting a decent hotel there could have been the start of something.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by jFug

If that's how it plays out, that will be a real shame.

While, yes, that part of town is not great, actually putting a decent hotel there could have been the start of something.

Of course, a good development would serve as a neighborhood anchor and could have resulted in good things for the surroundings. But if you're an out of town investor who flips hotels, why would you care? And why would you invest significant $ if the surroundings were so depressingly bleak?

It's a circular situation... crappy area --> low investment --> crappy area

You can't expect private developers to do any more than what affects their short-term bottom line. So this is where a city needs to step in and encourage, incentivize, and demand a higher standard. But Erie is so starved for anything, that they'll give it away without getting what they something of better value in return... which just continues the decades-long cycle of the city shooting themselves in the foot.

[DFWCC8]

The old "Professional Bldg" if its still called between State & Peach sts at 16th street,
I think could be a good spot for the Comm College. If they could pick-up the Perseus House just to the north, it would give room for expansion for the skilled labor trades.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1201...!3m1!1e3?hl=en

[pj3000]

^ Yeah, good call. I think this area would be great for a community college campus, but the problem is that the Professional Building and Perseus House are occupied and a new hotel is being constructed... so I the chances are likely nil.

[pj3000]

Latest shot of Warner Theater expansion

[pj3000]

And a good nighttime shot of central downtown looking south, showing the Warner Theater construction (left middle) and Gannon University I-HACK/GTE North Tower renovation with new exterior lighting scheme (right middle).

And I think it's long past time for the city parking authority to rethink that massive, low parking garage between West 8th and 9th streets, behind the former Carlisle's department store (now part of Gannon). What a terrible waste of space.

[deja vu]

Originally Posted by pj3000

And a good nighttime shot of central downtown looking south, showing the Warner Theater construction (left middle) and Gannon University I-HACK/GTE North Tower renovation with new exterior lighting scheme (right middle).

And I think it's long past time for the city parking authority to rethink that massive, low parking garage between West 8th and 9th streets, behind the former Carlisle's department store (now part of Gannon). What a terrible waste of space.

Cool photo. Can someone remind me again what the Warner Theater expansion scope entails? Does the photo a bit further above show a new / expanded stage area? That'd be my guess, based on the way it is constructed.

[jFug]

Originally Posted by pj3000

And a good nighttime shot of central downtown looking south, showing the Warner Theater construction (left middle) and Gannon University I-HACK/GTE North Tower renovation with new exterior lighting scheme (right middle).

And I think it's long past time for the city parking authority to rethink that massive, low parking garage between West 8th and 9th streets, behind the former Carlisle's department store (now part of Gannon). What a terrible waste of space.

I-HACK is looking sexy.

[pj3000]

^ Oh so sexy

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by deja vu

Cool photo. Can someone remind me again what the Warner Theater expansion scope entails? Does the photo a bit further above show a new / expanded stage area? That'd be my guess, based on the way it is constructed.

Yeah, expanded stage/backstage areas, rehearsal hall, event space, loading areas, outdoor walkways, bunch of other stuff. They're basically building a new building on the lot next door and adding a story to the top of the 7th floor, to go along with exterior restorations on the existing 1930s building.

[Butternut]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Yeah, expanded stage/backstage areas, rehearsal hall, event space, loading areas, outdoor walkways, bunch of other stuff. They're basically building a new building on the lot next door and adding a story to the top of the 7th floor, to go along with exterior restorations on the existing 1930s building.

Great to see all the progress still happening in downtown.

Curious to know what happened to the gateway art project that was supposed to be commissioned at the intersection of state and 3rd. Has anyone heard anything?

Downtown Erie needs all the art it can take. Art builds a sense of character and place, and is so underrated for building an attractive cityscape.

Also, Im still curious whats happening with the Avalon Hotel. To me, that project should be toward the top of the drawing board considering its location and square footage.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Butternut

Great to see all the progress still happening in downtown.

Curious to know what happened to the gateway art project that was supposed to be commissioned at the intersection of state and 3rd. Has anyone heard anything?

Downtown Erie needs all the art it can take. Art builds a sense of character and place, and is so underrated for building an attractive cityscape.

Also, Im still curious whats happening with the Avalon Hotel. To me, that project should be toward the top of the drawing board considering its location and square footage.

I imagine that the public art project is in the works... and that COVID has likely slowed things down this year. Here's a link to one of the artists:

https://www.aphidoidea.com/portraits

That area of lower donwntown (basically the UPMC Hamot campus) really needs an overhaul... all of a sudden, it becomes very suburban and results in a major disconnect between downtown and the bayfront. A public art "gateway" can help, but the fact is that the area is built for the hospital's benefit and nothing else. UPMC should be pressured to be a much better partner in helping to create a cohesive urban environment in the area, rather than a collection of parking lots and inappropriate buildings.


As far as the Avalon goes, I believe it is for sale. The place is a total dump, and has been for decades. The current owner is likely in way over his head considering the size of the hotel, and is looking to sell or partner with investors to renovate/rebrand. I think it would be best if it were sold, converted to mixed-use with a smaller hotel taking up only a few floors, and the single-story portion that spans the block along Peach demolished.

[jFug]

This is a bit of a nitpick but I wish downtown Erie had some better streetscape design.

- There's like 10 different lampost designs in downtown alone. Start at the dock they have the newer LED lamps. Get up to 4th and State, the one side has them, the other does not. Perry Square has them. Then between 10th and 12th, is the old ones. Then from 12th to 14th is the LEDs again.

- Also, traffic lights. Most traffic lights downtown are mounted on poles, however the traffic lights on State between 5th and 2nd are on wires, which does not look good in downtown.

- Also, there are sidewalk bump-outs south of 12th Street and around Perry Square but they are non-existent everywhere else.

- Street name signs mounted on polls vary in design as well. From 7th to 10th is one design, 12th-14th is another.

- Also, some traffic lights that I think should be eliminated: 13th and State, 11th and French, 11th and Holland, 7th and French, just to name a few.

[Butternut]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I imagine that the public art project is in the works... and that COVID has likely slowed things down this year. Here's a link to one of the artists:

https://www.aphidoidea.com/portraits

That area of lower donwntown (basically the UPMC Hamot campus) really needs an overhaul... all of a sudden, it becomes very suburban and results in a major disconnect between downtown and the bayfront. A public art "gateway" can help, but the fact is that the area is built for the hospital's benefit and nothing else. UPMC should be pressured to be a much better partner in helping to create a cohesive urban environment in the area, rather than a collection of parking lots and inappropriate buildings.


As far as the Avalon goes, I believe it is for sale. The place is a total dump, and has been for decades. The current owner is likely in way over his head considering the size of the hotel, and is looking to sell or partner with investors to renovate/rebrand. I think it would be best if it were sold, converted to mixed-use with a smaller hotel taking up only a few floors, and the single-story portion that spans the block along Peach demolished.

I agree about lower downtown. Its odd and desolate; and a shame because the potential is incredible there. It just takes a little imagination and industriousness. So many cool projects could be proposed along the bluff and into the bayfront -- e.g. modern apartment buildings flowing into a bluff park (with seating and pathways) and onward to the bayfront. Its so unique you could play around with several blueprints and come out with a very desirable win.

People like us need to be running downtown development and city council. Sure it takes hard work, dedication, patience, faith, marketing, etc. but the plan now seems to be let the kings rule and sit back and watch. THINK BIG!

With that said, the current progress is incredibly welcomed and encouraging.

[Butternut]

Originally Posted by jFug

This is a bit of a nitpick but I wish downtown Erie had some better streetscape design.

- There's like 10 different lampost designs in downtown alone. Start at the dock they have the newer LED lamps. Get up to 4th and State, the one side has them, the other does not. Perry Square has them. Then between 10th and 12th, is the old ones. Then from 12th to 14th is the LEDs again.

- Also, traffic lights. Most traffic lights downtown are mounted on poles, however the traffic lights on State between 5th and 2nd are on wires, which does not look good in downtown.

- Also, there are sidewalk bump-outs south of 12th Street and around Perry Square but they are non-existent everywhere else.

- Street name signs mounted on polls vary in design as well. From 7th to 10th is one design, 12th-14th is another.

- Also, some traffic lights that I think should be eliminated: 13th and State, 11th and French, 11th and Holland, 7th and French, just to name a few.

Totally agree. Ive noticed the same thing. Street lights may seem inconsequential, but replacing the shitty wired lights with modern mounted lights alone would do wonders.

[pj3000]

Sorry to see yet another piece of downtown Erie' s urban fabric being demolished for no good reason. Aside from the Hospice of Erie building on the corner of 10th& Holland, it was the last building standing along Holland across the street from UPMC Park and the Civic Center. Almost nothing but parking lots now.

It's this building on East 8th & Holland:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1288...7i16384!8i8192

Hmmm... I wonder why it's being torn down? Could Erie Insurance want the site for more parking?


Erie Otters' offices being torn down after move to new building

https://www.goerie.com/story/sports/...ng/6563596002/



Demolition started Wednesday on the former Erie Otters administrative offices at 201 East Eighth Street.

A crew from Perry Construction Group was performing the work.

The Otters organization has moved into the recently constructed addition to the Erie Insurance arena complex and UPMC Park. The facility will also house the administrative office of the Erie SeaWolves and team stores for both organizations.