CHICAGO | The 78 Site

[Goose Island Guru]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

The anti gentrification crowd are fucking idiots. If Chicago is going to solve its financial mess (as the IL Supreme Court has determined we can't alter unearned future benefits of current public employees), it needs more gentrification, not less.

What's stopping the government from negotiating a new deal with the unions where 100% of employees would be terminated and immediately rehired under new terms that allow alternation of unearned future benefits?

Sure, good luck having the unions agree to this, but then go ahead and terminate them all and don't rehire them. The unions know where this is going - their pensions are inevitably going to fail. You'd think they'd want to negotiate something new that locks something achievable in.

Illinois is an employment-at-will state. You can legally get fired for looking at your boss sideways.

[HomrQT]

Originally Posted by Goose Island Guru

What's stopping the government from negotiating a new deal with the unions where 100% of employees would be terminated and immediately rehired under new terms that allow alternation of unearned future benefits?

Sure, good luck having the unions agree to this, but then go ahead and terminate them all and don't rehire them. The unions know where this is going - their pensions are inevitably going to fail. You'd think they'd want to negotiate something new that locks something achievable in.

Illinois is an employment-at-will state. You can legally get fired for looking at your boss sideways.

I'd assume what's stopping them is the law... The government made legally binding promises to those people (rightfully so or not is another discussion). But if the government is allowed to back out on a deal whenever they feel like it, then nothing matters anymore. Even with the impending debt crisis on our hands the government can't just say, "well we know we've been promising this to you for decades, but we didn't budget correctly for it so we're just not going to honor it".

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by HomrQT

I'd assume what's stopping them is the law... The government made legally binding promises to those people (rightfully so or not is another discussion). But if the government is allowed to back out on a deal whenever they feel like it, then nothing matters anymore. Even with the impending debt crisis on our hands the government can't just say, "well we know we've been promising this to you for decades, but we didn't budget correctly for it so we're just not going to honor it".

Agree, unfortunately the state can't just fire everyone. Though that would be the best way around the silly "lifetime protected pension contract" our stupid Constitution has.

[woodrow]

It is the Illinois Constitution of 1970 that precludes any changes. Even Gov. Quinn's modest pension reform law was struck down in 2015 by the IL Supreme Court. Pension Protection Clause.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by woodrow

It is the Illinois Constitution of 1970 that precludes any changes. Even Gov. Quinn's modest pension reform law was struck down in 2015 by the IL Supreme Court. Pension Protection Clause.

I still don't understand why we don't amend the Constitution to get rid of the Pension Protection Clause. I know it won't eliminate the current fiscal disaster, but why in the world would we ever want this problem to be allowed to happen again. All it will take is some GA and Governor to over promise benefits, and we all know that will happen.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

The anti gentrification crowd are fucking idiots. If Chicago is going to solve its financial mess (as the IL Supreme Court has determined we can't alter unearned future benefits of current public employees), it needs more gentrification, not less.

Chinatown is a separate type of case, and they are essentially gentrifying themselves while keeping their culture. Similar to what has happened and is happening in Flushing in NYC. Chicago Chinatown for awhile was old school Cantonese or American Chinese places. In the last decade it's been "infiltrated" by more mainland businesses that are also nicer. The Chinese people in Chicago sway more educated and also make just as much is not more on average than those in NYC and SF.

There are numerous projects going on or about to happen in and around Chinatown by Chinese developers and while it's not million dollar housing, it's not cheap. These range from that retail plaza being built in Chinatown with room for 40+ restaurants to that warehouse nearby being converted to a 200 room hotel with upscale spa, home furniture store, handful of restaurants...to 30+ new SFH being built on industrial land in Bridgeport to multiple mixed use about to be built

Look at the new multi unit buildings on Halsted right south of i55. Almost instantly full of Chinese businesses. Chinese people in average are very pro development and many of the younger people love also non Chinese things. They don't want to see their culture go away..they are HUGE on culture, but in my view they seem to work smarter when building new things and needing retail/commercial space to be filled up right away.

Here's the thing..to many from China, their view of wanting space is not the same as some other people. My finances parents live in the very edge of Shanghai. They love nature, hiking, etc but they also want to live near things. They still live in a 8 story residential building and there are numerous 30 story towers around. The only difference is that they have zen gardens out their front door and the then that is good enough. 5 minute walk and they have streets with 100 restaurants away. 10 minute drive away and they are in the country where almost nobody lives and nature, but they don't need a sfh or anything.

When we took them to Bridgeport, they thought it was the suburbs. When the 78 comes, you bet your ass they will build more. I guarantee it. It's $$ and they aren't dumb enough to be so insular and not open even more business and probably understand that they're the ones who can build new buildings to house people who work at the 78. That one company in town is already doing it in the area by building tons of new retail and many new residential buildings.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Chinatown is a separate type of case, and they are essentially gentrifying themselves while keeping their culture. Similar to what has happened and is happening in Flushing in NYC. Chicago Chinatown for awhile was old school Cantonese or American Chinese places. In the last decade it's been "infiltrated" by more mainland businesses that are also nicer. The Chinese people in Chicago sway more educated and also make just as much is not more on average than those in NYC and SF.

There are numerous projects going on or about to happen in and around Chinatown by Chinese developers and while it's not million dollar housing, it's not cheap. These range from that retail plaza being built in Chinatown with room for 40+ restaurants to that warehouse nearby being converted to a 200 room hotel with upscale spa, home furniture store, handful of restaurants...to 30+ new SFH being built on industrial land in Bridgeport to multiple mixed use about to be built

Look at the new multi unit buildings on Halsted right south of i55. Almost instantly full of Chinese businesses. Chinese people in average are very pro development and many of the younger people love also non Chinese things. They don't want to see their culture go away..they are HUGE on culture, but in my view they seem to work smarter when building new things and needing retail/commercial space to be filled up right away.

For sure, I love seeing Chinatown boom like it is.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

For sure, I love seeing Chinatown boom like it is.

There is no doubt they will be opening more business and housing when the 78 comes. Look at NYC. Chinatown in Manhattan is next to Soho, near East Village, etc. These are extremely gentrified places and yet Chinatown hasn't shrunk. It's expanded. Flushing has like 6 20+ story high rises being built right now..and the people who live in the ones already completed are not only Asian. But the developers are smart as hell to get Chinese or Korean business to sign onto lease so the culture is preserved at street level still.

BTW, that one company in Chicago has a big minority share holder from Flushing who is developing tons of stuff there right now. So..you know. I can't see that they'll just disregard the 78. This is $$$ .. They are not going to complain like people in other neighborhoods. They will be the ones building stuff. I guarantee this will happen as long as the 78 happens and gets people working there.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ You've gotta be kidding me.

None. Of. This. Is. Necessary

I’m disappointed that 78 station change was deferred, but hopefully Related knows what it’s doing here and is very confident that the new alderman will come aboard.....frankly if it meant some more affordable housing that would be fine with me. Mainly I want to see the 78 move forward as quickly as possible (which will still take a long time) because it is such a well-planned project, including a very smart use of TIF (in sharp contrast to Lincoln Yards, which is a mess of a plan, and should probably not be moving forward in its current form....that’s the project that should have been deferred at its last hearings)

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

I’m disappointed that 78 station change was deferred, but hopefully Related knows what it’s doing here and is very confident that the new alderman will come aboard.....frankly if it meant some more affordable housing that would be fine with me. Mainly I want to see the 78 move forward as quickly as possible (which will still take a long time) because it is such a well-planned project, including a very smart use of TIF (in sharp contrast to Lincoln Yards, which is a mess of a plan, and should probably not be moving forward in its current form....that’s the project that should have been deferred at its last hearings)

My pet theory is that Ald-elect Sigcho is trying to cut a deal with Related where they purchase the Jesuit site on 18th/Sangamon and use that site to fulfill most or all of their required off-site affordable housing. Related was gonna have to find sites for that anyway within a 2-mile radius. I always assumed Related was gonna try to use the ample land they already control at Roosevelt Square, but due to Chicago's crazy racial boundaries, any housing there would be perceived as African-American housing and wouldn't be desirable to Sigcho's Latino base.

If they reach a deal, Sigcho can tell his constituents in Pilsen that he brought a large-scale 100% affordable housing development to the neighborhood, developed a long-vacant eyesore site, and kept the luxury housing on the other side of the river "where it belongs" lol.

[Mr Downtown]

I recently heard that CTA hadn't actually said they'd accept a curved and inclined platform for the CTA station, so now that the aldermanic election is over we might see an amendment to the TIF on that as well.

[ardecila]

^ What do you mean? An amendment to return the station to the original flat/straight Dearborn Park location (which Dowell flatly rejected) or an amendment to eliminate the station?

[Mr Downtown]

No further knowledge at this point. CTA might very well accept the curved location; it's just that saying back in February that they already had was apparently stretching things a bit. But I wouldn't be shocked to see the platform location shifted back to be, at least partly, east of Clark.

[aaron38]

Wasn’t the main issue just where the station entrance is on the surface?
The platforms itself can be either side.

[Mr Downtown]

The 3rd Ward (Dearborn Park II) residents primarily objected to the closing of Cotton Tail Park for construction of the platforms. They're so near the surface that they'll have to be built cut-and-cover, and Related did themselves no favors by being unwilling to predict how long the park would be closed. Apparently some loud voices just didn't think the park would ever reopen.

Others objected to the entrance location, and the crime they believed that would bring to their doorstep. Looking at the conditions under the Roosevelt L station, you can sort of understand their concerns.

Related says there are various utilities stacked up under Clark that make it impossible for the platforms, or walkways, to cross under it. But of course the subway tube itself crosses under Clark somewhere around -20, and I don't know why side platforms can't go right alongside.

[Jim in Chicago]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Others objected to the entrance location, and the crime they believed that would bring to their doorstep. Looking at the conditions under the Roosevelt L station, you can sort of understand their concerns.

I fully admit that the Roosevelt L stop is nothing but a hot mess, and I, for one, avoid it if at all possible. It's just bad. And the CTA/city can't even find a way to prevent people from crossing Roosevelt mid block creating a very hazardous situation. That one's easy - build an open fence from corner to corner - solved. It's a major station for many L lines as well as a bus stop. Huge crowds, always filthy, just not pleasant.

But, that proposed station is a very different animal. It should mainly serve DBII, who should be happy to have a station, not angry, and the 78. Those folks will just exit and walk to the development - maybe a few will go to Mariano's first. Different situation entirely.

As to the previous Cotton Tail park - how long was Millennial park closed?

[sammyg]

Originally Posted by Jim in Chicago

But, that proposed station is a very different animal. It should mainly serve DBII, who should be happy to have a station, not angry, and the 78. Those

That's the problem - they're afraid of poor people taking the train from the South Side straight to their neighborhood.

[Mr Downtown]

I don't think it's South Siders that the villagers worry about. It's the scary guys transferring to the Roosevelt bus, and the panhandlers who know Columbia students are easy marks, and the mental cases who've been thrown out of Pacific Garden Mission for the day. Yes, 15th & Clark should be a very different situation, but nuanced views don't make much headway with angered villagers.

It doesn't matter how long Grant Park was closed for creation of "Millennial Park." The moms of the village say "my children are young now." That a subway station might be welcomed when their 5-year-old is a 15-year-old wanting to attend Northside Prep, or go to a Mag Mile job, or visit friends on the North Side . . . again, that's too abstract a concept. They're mad now, and the alderman naturally feels the need to represent that opinion. And Related has done a terrible job of getting out ahead of this, and doing real community outreach instead of passing out ballcaps and showing patronizing videos touting their subcontractor MBE percentages.

[Tom In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

. . . nuanced views don't make much headway with angered villagers.

Exactly. . . and this is why we can't have nice stuff. . .

. . .

[SIGSEGV]

Saw this while waiting for the train this morning. Hard to tell where it is but it looks like it might be between Clark and the River?