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  #61  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2023, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
Visually, Taipei has elements of Hong Kong, Tokyo, Seoul, and Singapore, but on the whole, its urban vernacular is pretty unique and should be discernible for those who geek out on urbanism. For my money, it clearly has the best "fine-grained" urban form. It's like Paris meets Lower East Side meets South Philly.
Pretty much. It has elements that remind me of the big megacities, but when you're there it feels like its own thing.





















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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2023, 5:08 PM
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Taipei 101 is one of my favorite skyscrapers ever, it’s got the perfect amount of East Asian flair without going overboard, and great proportions.
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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2023, 5:19 PM
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I don't understand the love for Taipei 101. It looks horrible. Cheap glass and comical design, apparently designed by a 5-yo. The architect has to be someone's cousin or something. It's probably the worst-looking well-known supertall on the planet.
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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2023, 5:40 PM
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Regarding location, another incredible coincidence between Taipei and Seoul. Taipei 101 and Lotte World Tower have the great advantage in my opinion of the other surrounding buildings being lower, which connotes a great prominence and the feeling of a single reigning point.

The reasoning also applies to Tokyo Skytree, sovereign and beautiful in the Tokyo skyline, but this is another structure, being an observation tower, giving a different feeling than a skyscraper, especially looking into the distance from the ground.

In Shanghai, for example, the grandeur of the Shanghai Tower seems overshadowed by the density of the supertall in Pudong and some structures such as the Oriental Pearl Tower and Jin Mao Tower seem to clash a little with other more futuristic towers.

And in most other cities with supertalls there are other buildings in the cores or CBDs that are so tall that they obscure the feeling of grandeur of the tallest building or the masterpiece tall building.
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  #65  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2023, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I don't understand the love for Taipei 101. It looks horrible. Cheap glass and comical design, apparently designed by a 5-yo. The architect has to be someone's cousin or something. It's probably the worst-looking well-known supertall on the planet.
All that and I still agree with lio. It's an unmistakable icon that everyone instantly recognizes even if one thinks the design looks cheap. Also when it was built they installed, at the time, the world's fastest elevators so clearly some money was spent inside the building's mechanicals.

This is wild!
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Taipei 101 is one of my favorite skyscrapers ever, it’s got the perfect amount of East Asian flair without going overboard, and great proportions.
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  #66  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2023, 7:23 PM
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Not the first nor the last time I totally disagree with Crawford; move on people, nothing to see here
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  #67  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2023, 4:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
It's interesting to me that Sun Yat-sen, the "father of modern China," was actually Hakka, or Hakka/Cantonese, yet he promoted Mandarin as the national language. And are some of the people who are called "Han," really Han? Or is/was that something promoted by the government as a form of nationalism?
The latter. Look at how Xi Jinping is trying to crack down on Cantonese.

As a Chinese American of Cantonese descent (my parents were born in HK), I look more ambiguously East Asian. I've had several mainlanders from farther north think that I was Korean. At least one (maybe two) girls in high school I sat next to in AP Lit were shocked when they found out I was Chinese.

So, yes, those in southern China are ethnically different. We're a mixture of Han and Yue, with some shared ancestry with southern Vietnamese. Vietnamese are a mix of Yue, Khmer, and Mon (or so I read on Wikipedia).

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I've been trying to convince my friend from Taiwan to do her DNA ancestry but she's convinced she's 100% "Chinese." I'm thinking she might have other different kinds of Chinese ethnicites in her DNA, and possibly even aboriginal Taiwanese.
My cousin-in-law and his newly adopted son are from Taiwan. Both of them have darker complexions. Would not be surprised if they had Hakka or distant aboriginal DNA.
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Last edited by Quixote; Sep 14, 2023 at 5:12 AM.
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  #68  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2023, 4:28 AM
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All that and I still agree with lio. It's an unmistakable icon that everyone instantly recognizes even if one thinks the design looks cheap. Also when it was built they installed, at the time, the world's fastest elevators so clearly some money was spent inside the building's mechanicals.
Same. Agree with Crawford about the cheap glass and gimmicky design, but its silhouette alone is unique among supertall skyscraper icons. Perhaps the design would've aged better had they used glass with a more subtle green tint.

These days, designs are copied, pasted, and edited... and are becoming less worthy of icon status (see Central Park Tower). Like I mentioned earlier, the Renzo Piano-designed Fubon Xinyi A25 is basically a cross between the NYT (also designed by Piano) and 3 WTC.
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  #69  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2023, 5:34 AM
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To me, human-scale buildings, vibrancy, orderliness, and cleanliness are what make for attractive and interesting urbanism, more so than aesthetics. It's why, if given the choice between Taipei or, say, DC, I'd choose Taipei 10 times out of 10. The buildings of varying heights, age, and condition strangely give off a Manhattan-like feel. And while the ugly buildings themselves are nothing to write home about, it's the way everything comes together that makes the city quite beautiful IMO.
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  #70  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2023, 1:43 PM
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I don't think DC is a terrible town for walking/exploring. You have to get out of the business core, and into places like Dupont Circle, Adams Morgan, Georgetown, Foggy Bottom, etc. Dallas would be a terrible town for walking/exploring.

That said, yeah, it's one of the blander world cities, and Taipei looks a billion times more interesting, at least from pedestrian perspective.
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  #71  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2023, 3:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
The latter. Look at how Xi Jinping is trying to crack down on Cantonese.

As a Chinese American of Cantonese descent (my parents were born in HK), I look more ambiguously East Asian. I've had several mainlanders from farther north think that I was Korean. At least one (maybe two) girls in high school I sat next to in AP Lit were shocked when they found out I was Chinese.

So, yes, those in southern China are ethnically different. We're a mixture of Han and Yue, with some shared ancestry with southern Vietnamese. Vietnamese are a mix of Yue, Khmer, and Mon (or so I read on Wikipedia).

My cousin-in-law and his newly adopted son are from Taiwan. Both of them have darker complexions. Would not be surprised if they had Hakka or distant aboriginal DNA.
Historically, the Cham people are also in the genetic mix for the Vietnamese. The people who are in Vietnam now, arrived there relatively recently (in the grand scheme of human history). The Cham are related to Malay people and were there long before the other ethnic groups of mainland Asia started moving south to that area. You know how some Vietnamese look like Filipinos/Malays? I figure they have some Cham in them.

Maybe you have some Korean genes in you? It's possible; you should do 23andme or Ancestry DNA and find out. I've actually done both 23andme and Ancestry DNA. It's interesting how they've each categorized my genetic makeup, they are both slightly different. I'm ethnically Filipino... and as it turns out, 23andme says I have some Korean and Japanese in me, whereas Ancestry DNA says I have some Korean and northern Chinese. Both 23andme and Ancestry DNA say I also have some southern Chinese in me, but only 23andme says I also have some southern Indian/Sri Lankan in me. The great majority of my genes of course, are Filipino---but both companies were able to determine that I'm pretty much about half northern Filipino and about half southern Filipino, which I already knew---my father's family has long been on Luzon, but my mother's mother was from the Visayas (Bohol).
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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2023, 5:32 PM
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The Metro entrances look so cool. Love all of the greenery and trees!
Hope to visit one day.
Years ago I had an online penpal from Taichung. She was a sweet woman with an identical twin sister. She was obsessed with Australia and after a school exchange program was hellbent on going back to live there.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Ai2pDf989A8gzeqQ6
Here's another neat MRT station entrance.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang..._metro_station
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2023, 12:26 AM
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I don't think DC is a terrible town for walking/exploring. You have to get out of the business core, and into places like Dupont Circle, Adams Morgan, Georgetown, Foggy Bottom, etc. Dallas would be a terrible town for walking/exploring.

That said, yeah, it's one of the blander world cities, and Taipei looks a billion times more interesting, at least from pedestrian perspective.
DC probably has the best aesthetics of any American city. However, it feels a little fascist and too controlled.

The point I'm trying to make is that being interesting is better than being pretty. Taipei's architecture is ugly, but how they all come together makes for an attractive and urban experience that is more random and experiential, giving it a stronger sense of place. It doesn't follow the traditional archetype of polished CBD dominated by corporate offices and designer shops and luxury-chain hotels that can be found in every major global city.
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  #74  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2023, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
Historically, the Cham people are also in the genetic mix for the Vietnamese. The people who are in Vietnam now, arrived there relatively recently (in the grand scheme of human history). The Cham are related to Malay people and were there long before the other ethnic groups of mainland Asia started moving south to that area. You know how some Vietnamese look like Filipinos/Malays? I figure they have some Cham in them.
I think all mainland Southeast Asians probably have some shared Austronesian DNA in them due to the migration patterns and interbreeding of Denisovans hundreds of thousand of years ago.

Quote:
Maybe you have some Korean genes in you? It's possible; you should do 23andme or Ancestry DNA and find out. I've actually done both 23andme and Ancestry DNA. It's interesting how they've each categorized my genetic makeup, they are both slightly different. I'm ethnically Filipino... and as it turns out, 23andme says I have some Korean and Japanese in me, whereas Ancestry DNA says I have some Korean and northern Chinese. Both 23andme and Ancestry DNA say I also have some southern Chinese in me, but only 23andme says I also have some southern Indian/Sri Lankan in me. The great majority of my genes of course, are Filipino---but both companies were able to determine that I'm pretty much about half northern Filipino and about half southern Filipino, which I already knew---my father's family has long been on Luzon, but my mother's mother was from the Visayas (Bohol).
A first cousin on my dad's side shared the results his 23andme. His mom and dad (my uncle) are actually first cousins, so I would conjecture that our DNA compositions are pretty similar.

His results were about 76% Chinese, 13% Chinese Dai, 8% Vietnamese, 2% Indonesian/Thai/Khmer/Myanmar, and 1% "Broadly Chinese & Southeast Asian." He also took a test a few years prior that returned results of about 1% Korean and Japanese.

He also shared the results of (I believe) some of our second cousins, who are also largely Chinese and Chinese Dai.
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  #75  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2023, 1:13 AM
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Taipei 101 is one of my favorite skyscrapers ever, it’s got the perfect amount of East Asian flair without going overboard, and great proportions.
I personally enjoy it as well. I generally don't care for POMO buildings that blatantly use legacy architectural references but it can also be done well. I also enjoy the Petronas towers so perhaps the issue is that eastern legacy architecture is better suited to providing such references than western legacy architecture is.
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  #76  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2023, 1:07 PM
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Yeah cosmopolitan isn't necessarily any more or less "authentic" than any other characteristic. People and places change, evolve, and influence one another over time and it's been that way since time immemorial. There's nothing inherently inauthentic about that. People often misuse the concept of authenticity to refer to a snapshot in time to basically say that, "this particular moment represents the truest form or essence of the thing and any change is dilution or corruption of that essence". In reality, no one moment is any more valid or representative than another. There'd be a stronger argument if people or places were forced to change against their will, but most change happens partly or fully because people want the benefits that change brings. And these are very genuine and authentic desires.
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Except this is exactly what happened throughout nearly all of Southeast Asia.
"people or places forced to change against their will" in the past describes a lot of cultures that today we still see as "traditional".

For instance, many European cultures seen today as homogeneously using one language or proudly one nation are byproducts of 19th century nationalism (e.g. replacement of French local languages and dialects by Parisian French).

If you go further back, the fact that for instance, much of the world's languages write in the Latin alphabet is a combination of both imposition of will by military dominance (e.g., the Roman empire, then later western colonization) plus later choices by leaders and groups even without conquest... for instance, Ataturk's choice of changing Turkish from written in an Arabic script to Latin.

At some point, a radical change or replacement of the traditional old ways by modern outside influences just becomes "oh, that's the way we do it now" and then "I don't remember it any other way". The fact that at some point, someone's ancestors was forced into doing things this way or the alternative, that they voluntarily picked it up from outside influences, becomes not very salient. For instance, the whole bunch of French words and French influences that came from the Norman Conquest of England. Or Latin words from the Renaissance. Or even English picking up foreign words from the British Empire. All of these just become part of how we talk, speak or use language and culture without thinking too deeply of its origins. And "changing it back" would be quite difficult. Though things like bringing back Celtic languages or Native American languages, the Jewish diaspora reviving Hebrew has been successful, there are also a lot of other "traditional" cultures and languages that are not coming back.

Today, the world's lingua franca is English and much of the world is picking it up (voluntarily, not by conquest). But non-western cultures are also affecting western cultures too (e.g. popularity of Asian influences in the west). At least this level of cosmopolitanism is based on something other than force, but rather soft power.
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  #77  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2023, 11:49 PM
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I remember watching an episode of the Amazing Race about 15 or so years ago, and one of the destinations was Taiwan. One of the contestants noted that he "[didn't] speak 'Thai.'"
That moron got karmically eliminated in Taipei just as a father-daughter team of Taiwanese descent won that same leg.
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  #78  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2023, 9:19 PM
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What it's like living as a millionaire in Asia's 'stealthy rich city,' where the ultra-wealthy own more than 5 homes each and shop in private VIP fitting rooms

By Katie Warren
June 12, 2019

When you think of wealthy Asian cities, Taipei may not come to mind as quickly as billionaire hotspots like Hong Kong or Singapore.

But the Taiwanese capital is ranked ninth in world cities with the highest number of ultra-high-net-worth individuals, according to the 2019 Knight Wealth Report.

The population of ultra-high-net-worth-individuals has grown by 17% in the past five years, according to the report.

...

About 1,519 residents of Taipei have at least $30 million in assets, according to the report.

...

The Taiwanese tend to hide their wealth rather than flaunt it, according to Bloomberg, which calls Taipei "Asia's stealthy rich city."

Millionaires don't flaunt their luxury goods, but they do enjoy buying multiple homes and dining in the city's 24 Michelin-starred restaurants.

...

Luxury homes in Taipei are still relatively cheap compared to cities like Hong Kong, Singapore, and New York.

But Taipei's richest residents may not bother to choose between the two neighborhoods. In Taiwan, the ultra-wealthy own an average of 5.4 homes each.

According to Chen, "Taiwanese families will hoard properties when the opportunity presents itself, and not just within Taipei: property investment is basically an addiction!"

...
https://www.businessinsider.com/livi...-photos-2019-5
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  #79  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2023, 9:25 PM
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That moron got karmically eliminated in Taipei just as a father-daughter team of Taiwanese descent won that same leg.
That bozo also pronounced Nice, France the way you'd describe someone with a friendly disposition.
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2023, 9:55 PM
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Great-looking, classic-inspired building similar to quality infill in Northeastern cities that incorporates a subway station entrance and 10 retail storefronts, similar to the building across the street. The marquee signage, excess banners, and row of scooters seem to be the difference makers in terms of providing that vibrant, "ethnic" feel. In general, this is far nicer than standard residential infill in Tokyo and certainly Hong Kong.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/x68qkD6xx7wajybi9
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