The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[urbandreamer]

Is Vito Al's son?

Maybe VW is building the SS batteries for their upcoming Scout line of SUVs & pickup truck?

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Is Vito Al's son?

Maybe VW is building the SS batteries for their upcoming Scout line of SUVs & pickup truck?

Who knows who this guy's dad is, but it's not who I think you are suggesting, since his name was Palladini.

[urbandreamer]

Sounds like Tesla isn't building any new factories and the CyberCab robotaxi is likely the van/cab based on CyberTruck. Their affordable options may simply be a Model 3/Y "classic" &/or 2 door versions. If AI fails (imo it's mostly hype), Tesla should be a 10X earnings automotive stock.

[urbandreamer]

Meanwhile Honda is going to be selling 240,000 EVs to millionaire homeowners as of 2028-2030, built in Alliston (and KW?). Aka the next gen CRV and Passport.

[whatnext]

I bolded an interesting stat:

EVs aren't burdening Canada’s electricity grids – yet
Predicting if, when and how the surge will happen is a challenge for the country’s utility companies
THE GLOBE AND MAIL
PUBLISHED APRIL 25, 2024

In certain urban neighbourhoods, it can seem like Tesla Model 3s, Volkswagen ID.4s and Chevy Bolts occupy every third driveway.

Zero-emissions vehicles accounted for nearly 11 per cent of all new motor vehicles registered last year, according to Statistics Canada – the first time they’ve topped one in 10. That’s more than double the 5-per-cent sales threshold after which some experts believe consumer preferences shift and mass-adoption ensues

Charging a single EV draws as much energy as two average households combined, according to Toronto Hydro. Many observers have warned that rapid EV adoption will cause demand for electricity to surge.

So it might seem surprising that in Canada’s most populous province, Ontario, electricity demand actually declined in 2023 relative to the previous year. And in British Columbia, where adoption has been more rapid, there’s similarly been little impact despite 146,000 EVs hitting the road. (These gains notwithstanding, sales have lagged expectations in recent quarters in several countries, including Canada.)...

....What about all those new Teslas? According to IESO data, the incremental demand from EVs last year in Ontario was just 0.12 terawatt hours, as compared with a total province-wide demand of 133 TWh.

Curious about what was happening in neighbourhoods where early EV adopters are clustered, The Globe and Mail acquired new vehicle registration data by forward sortation area (the first three digits in postal codes) from the province’s transportation ministry. The data were compared to power use, with the expectation that it would rise, but in fact there was no notable increases in consumption.

The explanation for this is straightforward: Even as sales have increased rapidly, EVs still represent a vanishingly small portion of the overall stock of vehicles....

...Toronto Hydro figures that proliferating EVs will begin overloading pole-top transformers, so it will have to replace or upgrade many more than was previously necessary. Overhead and underground cables will also be stressed. Toronto’s grid features three different voltage levels – Toronto Hydro warns that neighbourhoods served by the lowest-voltage lines will face longer wait times for hookups, and higher costs to connect. It also figures it will have to hire many more technicians to connect EV chargers to the grid....

....Some experts believe utilities have little to fear from EVs. At the country level, some studies have found that even full deployment might have only a modest impact – an increase of just 5 per cent or so in total electricity demand.

“Using information from Germany as an example, EV growth is not likely to cause large increases in power demand through 2030,” a 2018 commentary by McKinsey, the global consulting firm, asserted.....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...ity-grids-yet/

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I bolded an interesting stat:

EVs aren't burdening Canada’s electricity grids – yet
Predicting if, when and how the surge will happen is a challenge for the country’s utility companies
THE GLOBE AND MAIL
PUBLISHED APRIL 25, 2024

In certain urban neighbourhoods, it can seem like Tesla Model 3s, Volkswagen ID.4s and Chevy Bolts occupy every third driveway.

Zero-emissions vehicles accounted for nearly 11 per cent of all new motor vehicles registered last year, according to Statistics Canada – the first time they’ve topped one in 10. That’s more than double the 5-per-cent sales threshold after which some experts believe consumer preferences shift and mass-adoption ensues

Charging a single EV draws as much energy as two average households combined, according to Toronto Hydro. Many observers have warned that rapid EV adoption will cause demand for electricity to surge.

So it might seem surprising that in Canada’s most populous province, Ontario, electricity demand actually declined in 2023 relative to the previous year. And in British Columbia, where adoption has been more rapid, there’s similarly been little impact despite 146,000 EVs hitting the road. (These gains notwithstanding, sales have lagged expectations in recent quarters in several countries, including Canada.)...

....What about all those new Teslas? According to IESO data, the incremental demand from EVs last year in Ontario was just 0.12 terawatt hours, as compared with a total province-wide demand of 133 TWh.

Curious about what was happening in neighbourhoods where early EV adopters are clustered, The Globe and Mail acquired new vehicle registration data by forward sortation area (the first three digits in postal codes) from the province’s transportation ministry. The data were compared to power use, with the expectation that it would rise, but in fact there was no notable increases in consumption.

The explanation for this is straightforward: Even as sales have increased rapidly, EVs still represent a vanishingly small portion of the overall stock of vehicles....

...Toronto Hydro figures that proliferating EVs will begin overloading pole-top transformers, so it will have to replace or upgrade many more than was previously necessary. Overhead and underground cables will also be stressed. Toronto’s grid features three different voltage levels – Toronto Hydro warns that neighbourhoods served by the lowest-voltage lines will face longer wait times for hookups, and higher costs to connect. It also figures it will have to hire many more technicians to connect EV chargers to the grid....

....Some experts believe utilities have little to fear from EVs. At the country level, some studies have found that even full deployment might have only a modest impact – an increase of just 5 per cent or so in total electricity demand.

“Using information from Germany as an example, EV growth is not likely to cause large increases in power demand through 2030,” a 2018 commentary by McKinsey, the global consulting firm, asserted.....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...ity-grids-yet/

Time of day is key for electricity. It's hard for people to understand but much of our energy is essentially free at night. Eventually we will have to further incentivize EV charging to almost exclusively take place at night.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Charging a single EV draws as much energy as two average households combined, according to Toronto Hydro.

That stat makes zero sense. I'm in a condo and we use close to 20 kWh/day. Granted we have lots of appliances and stuff but heat and hot water is not included.

20kWh is enough to send my EV 100kms or more. In order to meet Toronto Hydro's average, I'd have to drive 200kms/day or 73,000kms/year. I'd love to see their math.

[Nouvellecosse]

People with home charging can charge overnight with next to no impact on the grid - if anything it makes the grid more efficient since production capacity isn't being wasted. But as greater EV adoption occurs to the point that apartment dwellers start buying them that will have more of an impact. Apartment dwellers may not have a charger at their residence and if they do they may not be able to charge overnight since leaving a vehicle plugged in for a long time frame such as while they're in bed sleeping could be considered poor etiquette. People in apartments are less likely to be drivers or to have as many vehicles or as large of vehicles so that helps. But many apartment dwellers do drive.

One potential option is to have a large battery pack built in so that peak period charging can draw from that rather than from the grid, while the battery can be re-charged at low periods. That apparently is part of a battery train service I heard about in Europe although in that case it was to allow for faster charging since the grid had trouble providing power fast enough on its own. The battery is able to supplement it and acted as a buffer.

Yes that would add a lot to the cost of charging stations, but it would be worth it not only in avoiding peak-period pricing but also as a backup in case of short-term power outages.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

That stat makes zero sense. I'm in a condo and we use close to 20 kWh/day. Granted we have lots of appliances and stuff but heat and hot water is not included.

20kWh is enough to send my EV 100kms or more. In order to meet Toronto Hydro's average, I'd have to drive 200kms/day or 73,000kms/year. I'd love to see their math.

It's pretty obvious that they mean fully charging the EV.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

That stat makes zero sense. I'm in a condo and we use close to 20 kWh/day. Granted we have lots of appliances and stuff but heat and hot water is not included.

20kWh is enough to send my EV 100kms or more. In order to meet Toronto Hydro's average, I'd have to drive 200kms/day or 73,000kms/year. I'd love to see their math.

From my reading, I'm guessing they probably just meant that to recharge an average EV from near empty to near full rather than implying that people would be doing that every day. If your car needs about 20kWh to go 100km and it has a range of say, 350km then that would be 70kWh per complete charge.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by theman23

It's pretty obvious that they mean fully charging the EV.

It's clickbait bullshit then.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

From my reading, I'm guessing they probably just meant that to recharge an average EV from near empty to near full rather than implying that people would be doing that every day. If your car needs about 20kWh to go 100km and it has a range of say, 350km then that would be 70kWh per complete charge.

But it's like saying your electric oven takes twice as much power as an average home... If you are baking 24/7.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

meanwhile honda is going to be selling 240,000 evs to millionaire homeowners as of 2028-2030, built in alliston (and kw?). Aka the next gen crv and passport.

kw?

[urbandreamer]

It says Honda is partnering with another car maker to build a battery plant at another location. Part of the Wilmot Centre rumor involved GM, so it's possible this is a Honda GM, or possibly even Honda Toyota plant?

I believe it was in Victoriaville and Drummondville Quebec I saw extension cords dangling at odd angles from 2 storey flats out to parking lots and street parking to charge EVs.

I kind of like the new Mini Aceman EV.

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

It says Honda is partnering with another car maker to build a battery plant at another location. Part of the Wilmot Centre rumor involved GM, so it's possible this is a Honda GM, or possibly even Honda Toyota plant?

I believe it was in Victoriaville and Drummondville Quebec I saw extension cords dangling at odd angles from 2 storey flats out to parking lots and street parking to charge EVs.

I kind of like the new Mini Aceman EV.

I just saw a news report stating that the 2 additional facilities are not going to be located in Wilmot Centre or Alliston.

I have heard a couple of rumours floating around regarding location but I don’t know how accurate they are. I have heard Essex County, St. Thomas, St. Clair Township, and Niagara Region all mentioned.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Meanwhile Honda is going to be selling 240,000 EVs to millionaire homeowners as of 2028-2030, built in Alliston (and KW?). Aka the next gen CRV and Passport.

You have insider information on their future product plans?

[travis3000]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I bolded an interesting stat:

EVs aren't burdening Canada’s electricity grids – yet
Predicting if, when and how the surge will happen is a challenge for the country’s utility companies
THE GLOBE AND MAIL
PUBLISHED APRIL 25, 2024

In certain urban neighbourhoods, it can seem like Tesla Model 3s, Volkswagen ID.4s and Chevy Bolts occupy every third driveway.

Zero-emissions vehicles accounted for nearly 11 per cent of all new motor vehicles registered last year, according to Statistics Canada – the first time they’ve topped one in 10. That’s more than double the 5-per-cent sales threshold after which some experts believe consumer preferences shift and mass-adoption ensues

Charging a single EV draws as much energy as two average households combined, according to Toronto Hydro. Many observers have warned that rapid EV adoption will cause demand for electricity to surge.

So it might seem surprising that in Canada’s most populous province, Ontario, electricity demand actually declined in 2023 relative to the previous year. And in British Columbia, where adoption has been more rapid, there’s similarly been little impact despite 146,000 EVs hitting the road. (These gains notwithstanding, sales have lagged expectations in recent quarters in several countries, including Canada.)...

....What about all those new Teslas? According to IESO data, the incremental demand from EVs last year in Ontario was just 0.12 terawatt hours, as compared with a total province-wide demand of 133 TWh.

Curious about what was happening in neighbourhoods where early EV adopters are clustered, The Globe and Mail acquired new vehicle registration data by forward sortation area (the first three digits in postal codes) from the province’s transportation ministry. The data were compared to power use, with the expectation that it would rise, but in fact there was no notable increases in consumption.

The explanation for this is straightforward: Even as sales have increased rapidly, EVs still represent a vanishingly small portion of the overall stock of vehicles....

...Toronto Hydro figures that proliferating EVs will begin overloading pole-top transformers, so it will have to replace or upgrade many more than was previously necessary. Overhead and underground cables will also be stressed. Toronto’s grid features three different voltage levels – Toronto Hydro warns that neighbourhoods served by the lowest-voltage lines will face longer wait times for hookups, and higher costs to connect. It also figures it will have to hire many more technicians to connect EV chargers to the grid....

....Some experts believe utilities have little to fear from EVs. At the country level, some studies have found that even full deployment might have only a modest impact – an increase of just 5 per cent or so in total electricity demand.

“Using information from Germany as an example, EV growth is not likely to cause large increases in power demand through 2030,” a 2018 commentary by McKinsey, the global consulting firm, asserted.....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...ity-grids-yet/

Not sure I buy into this stat that to fully charge 0-100% an EV is the equivalent of running two households? For how long? All I know is since adding my Tesla to the grid, my hydro bill has risen about $35/month on average. And I "fully" charge my car 4x per month. Thats equal to over 2000KM of real world range. The hydro cost to run my household outside of the Tesla still well exceeds the EV added cost.

For instance my last hydro bill for the month of March was $135 (including taxes/fees/delivery, etc). About $35 of that was from my Tesla and the remaining $100 was for the rest of the house.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by travis3000

Not sure I buy into this stat that to fully charge 0-100% an EV is the equivalent of running two households?

Agreed. Doesn't appear to match reality either.

Norway's electrical history, look at 2010 and 2022. In 2010 EV's was below 1% of market share (new vehicle sales). In 2022 it was 80% of new sales. After 10 years of > 50% new vehicle market share Norway's electricity usage would have significantly increased if their household-equivalent doubled.

Norway's electricity usage didn't increase very much at all despite the conversion to EVs as their primary vehicle type. The trend line remained fairly constant from decades prior to EVs being popular until recently.



Total energy (electricity, fuel, heating, cooking, etc.) is down quite a bit:


https://www.enerdata.net/estore/energy-market/norway/

[Djeffery]

All anyone talks about is how much more electricity demand EVs will cause, but no one ever mentions the eventual drop in electrical demand that ICE causes. How much hydro does a Petro Canada station use? Or an oil refinery? Maybe society will benefit a bit from the fewer amounts of readily available junk food wherever you buy gas.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

kw?

Kilowatt or Kitchener-Waterloo, take your pick