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  #41  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 10:46 PM
Northern Light Northern Light is offline
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Originally Posted by Darkoshvilli View Post
No matter how much Torontonians wish they were in the us theyr are still in Canada last I checked.
With no slight intended to our American cousins, I don't think you'll find a large number of Torontonians wishing their City were on the other side of the border. LOL
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  #42  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 11:09 PM
Darkoshvilli Darkoshvilli is offline
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Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
With no slight intended to our American cousins, I don't think you'll find a large number of Torontonians wishing their City were on the other side of the border. LOL
Hey man im not shaming you guys. Most of us sometimes wish we were something we're not.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
Vancouver BC has SSP posters tracking cranes.

Forumer Leftcoaster has the numbers as at May 31st of this year:

174

Link to that post, here:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...&postcount=114

I'd imagine somewhere between 140-150 of those cranes are 12fl+ buildings.


So much of the high rise construction is in the suburbs now.

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  #44  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 3:06 AM
Omaharocks Omaharocks is offline
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Originally Posted by C. View Post
But that's exactly the point. 10 buildings over 20 stories are not that big of a deal when we're talking about what are the top cities in North America for construction. And I live in this town, down the street from Grant Park. The hometown booster-ism in Atlanta is on a whole other level...
I work in the development industry, and most of my work is in the west. But I'm very familiar with the goings on in Atlanta, and if you were to take the total amount of construction going on intown as the OP alluded - not just high-rises but midrises and all forms of housing, I would guess Atlanta would be in the top handful, alongside Austin and Nashville on a per-capita basis.

Nearly every block in the city of Atlanta (outside the downtown core) has some form of residential construction going on...I don't think it's just boosterism.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 3:53 AM
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I'm surprised Houston has that many. The local economy isn't exactly in the greatest shape lately. I'd at least assumed Austin would be building way more than us.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 2:13 PM
DCReid DCReid is offline
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
I'm surprised Houston has that many. The local economy isn't exactly in the greatest shape lately. I'd at least assumed Austin would be building way more than us.
Seems that much of the 12+ story building construction is residential, not office. So Houston must be densifying its core areas like downtown and midtown. LA must be as well... the numbers do seem a little high for Houston however.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 10:36 PM
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For Nashville, Bossabreezes rightly points out that the city is building absolutely massive amounts of urban low to mid rise (two to ten stories) infill throughout the city which makes up the bulk of overall construction.

He is also correct that in terms of total numbers it's highrise construction obviously doesn't hold a candle to the top cities such as New York and Toronto. So as such, perhaps Nashville doesn't belong in this discussion.

However, I don't think the level of highrise construction in Nashville is being fully realized and appreciated by those that don't live there or visit there on a regular basis, which is, of course, completely understandable. In my opinion, both on a per capita basis considering it's metro area doesn't even officially have two million people yet, and also in terms of how much it has added to the skyline relative to the skyline's size, I think Nashville certainly belongs in the conversation.

I'm not entirely sure what metric is being used to determine what is a highrise, but I see the emporis (which is not an exhaustive list) twelve story and over standard being used by many, so we'll go with that.

Using the aforementioned standards, these are the approximate numbers for Nashville, although I'm quite sure they're somewhat off as I'm using data that is several months old (which is why I don't blame emporis for having outdated or incomplete data)... this also doesn't include several large scale multiple tower developments that are just in the conceptual phase at the moment:

COMPLETED OVER LAST FIVE YEARS: 42

UNDER VARIOUS STAGES OF CONSTRUCTION: 40

PROPOSED/APPROVED: 63
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Last edited by BnaBreaker; Jun 24, 2021 at 10:57 PM.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 10:54 PM
Camelback Camelback is offline
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Wrong thread.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 11:01 PM
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crazy high numbers for Montreal. Of course Toronto has been insane for decades, and Vancouver too.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2021, 11:04 PM
Camelback Camelback is offline
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Who is building the most?

Easy check: which city gained the most in population over X amount of years.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 4:02 AM
ue ue is offline
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Originally Posted by Camelback View Post
Who is building the most?

Easy check: which city gained the most in population over X amount of years.
By that logic places like Phoenix ought to be resembling Manhattan any day now!
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  #52  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 4:24 AM
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Originally Posted by C. View Post
22 is probably the accurate number for Seattle. Emporis may not be the most up to date, but it's the best available data aggregation that I'm aware of.
I think LA is 20-22 unless I'm forgetting some stuff. But 20-22 sounds right. Not great, as LA is still developing those midrises mostly.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 4:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DCReid View Post
Seems that much of the 12+ story building construction is residential, not office. So Houston must be densifying its core areas like downtown and midtown. LA must be as well... the numbers do seem a little high for Houston however.
Yes, most of LA's are residential. Hollywood/Koreatown/Century City/Downtown/Wilshire mostly.

Koreatown is building a nice cluster of 25-35 story buildings around the Vermont/Wilshire metro station.

Those 50-70 story proposals in downtown are approved, so we'll see if they break ground in a couple of years. There seems to be a good amount of them.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 6:30 AM
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SLC doesn't really deserve to be in the conversation of "building the most" in an absolute sense. In a relative sense my feeling is that it is building more compared to what might be considered its peer cities with similar MSAs: Grand Rapids, Buffalo, Richmond, Providence, Louisville, etc.

In an absolute sense, (for NA specifically) Toronto seems to be in a league of its own with regard to building highrises. For the US, my perception is that there is a lot happening in Austin, Nashville, NYC, Seattle, and maybe Charlotte, LA, San Diego, and Phoenix to a lesser extent.
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Last edited by Atlas; Jun 25, 2021 at 7:48 AM.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 12:38 PM
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I'm curious Atlas as to why you have perhaps categorized the much larger Wasatch Front into the same category as MSA/CSA's that are much smaller and are not only experiencing a much smaller growth rate but are even stagnant or losing people. I don't quite understand how your listed similar MSA/CSA's are anywhere similar in population, mid-rise multi-unit construction, etc., etc. I'm sure you have a formula for your train of thought, and I mean this only as a differing but friendly opinion. I'm sure you were referring to specific types of high-rise density above a certain height, such as 300'. Although, that marker has been rising dramatically in SLC these past couple of years. Other than an economic armageddon SLC doesn't seem to be letting up on its monthly announcement of new high-rises at or above 300 feet in the near future. Hopefully, Salt Lake will soon begin to announce multiple high-rises in the 500-600 foot category. Given its constant dramatic change over these past two decades, anything is probable.

Again, Salt Lake City's greater MSA/CSA area is currently much larger in population than those mentioned as peers such as Buffalo, and it still continues to grow at a much faster pace. Now, I'm only assuming by what the local Wasatch Front forum posts report. That is that SLC's greater MSA/CSA construction is adding all phases of residential and commercial development including dense mid-rise multi-unit residential at a stunning rate, and is still not able to even begin to keep pace with the demand. In fact, That urban area of Utah's Wasatch Front has a long waiting list of people just trying to get in. If current 2021 trends continue the Wasatch Front's upcoming decade will even significantly outpace the past decade, which placed Utah as the fastest growing State in the U.S.

The open tracts of land, hemmed in by large mountains and lakes topography of Salt Lake's Central Metro have all been claimed by conglomerate developers and are currently proceeding through the planning stages. Salt Lake's central metro has no other choice but to grow upward and denser, which it is doing as fast as the labor and supply chains can keep pace. Its Southern and Northern Metros are now outpacing Central Salt Lake's growth. The population of its Southern Metro will soon be larger than Salt Lake's Central Metro itself.

According to the latest 2020 report by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget and the United States Census Bureau, of the 175 largest MSA/CSA listed in order of population are as follows: For the entire list go to...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area

Just those greater MSA/CSA's that you mentioned as being in the same peer group.

Salt Lake City - Rank #22 at 2,672,368...decade growth +17.64%

Louisville, KY-IN - Rank #40 at 1,493,587...+5.28%

Grand Rapids - Rank #42 at 1,418,089... +7.43%

Richmond - Rank #47 at 1,263,617(According to its own internal data)

Buffalo - Rank - #48 at 1,201,500... minus -1.18%

* Also, IMHO give or take 100,000 in pop. Salt Lake City's Wasatch Front would be in the same peer group population as St. Louis, Charlotte, Sacramento, San Antonio and Pittsburgh: Two of these have been stagnant or have lost population over the past decade while #22 Salt Lake City, #21 Charlotte and #24 San Antonio are among the fastest-growing MSA/CSA's in the nation. I would be far more interested in comparing greater Salt Lake City's mid-rise density multi-unit construction growth to those cities of comparable size and growth rate.

I would also be interested in how the Berkadia Reports for greater metros that are similar in size and growth percentage compare when talking about different aspects of construction such as all aspects of commercial, institutional, all aspects of surface/air & mass transportation infrastructure, single-detached residential construction, etc.

Last edited by delts145; Jun 25, 2021 at 3:44 PM.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 1:34 PM
Northern Light Northern Light is offline
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Originally Posted by Camelback View Post
Who is building the most?

Easy check: which city gained the most in population over X amount of years.

Obviously, population growth doesn't automatically track form (skyscrapers etc.)

But it certainly is a growth metric.

If one applies that to Toronto.

Based on the 2011 census, and forecast numbers for this year (this years census data will be published in Feb 2022)........

The GTHA (Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area)

Grew from 6,598,668 in 2011 to 7,180,434 this year.

Growth of roughly 600,000 people or about 9%

****

If one measured using the Greater Golden Horseshoe (Toronto's answer to Chicagoland)

Grew from 8,974,950 in 2011 to 9,860,745 this year.

Growth of roughly 900,000 people or about 9%

****

Source: https://neptis.org/publications/econ...en-horseshoe-5

****

Currently published projections show the GGH growing to 11.95M by 2031

That would be net growth of 2,100,000 over the next decade or about 21%.

Adding roughly 210,000 residents per year.

https://files.ontario.ca/mmah-place-...2020-08-28.pdf
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  #57  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 3:08 PM
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Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
I'm curious Atlas as to where you're assuming that as far as population and growth peers, the greater Salt Lake City Metro would fit into the same category as the other metro areas you mentioned. I don't quite understand how your listed similar MSA/CSA's are anywhere similar in population, mid-rise multi-unit construction, etc., etc. I'm sure you have a formula for your train of thought, and I mean this only as a differing but friendly opinion. Perhaps your talking of high-rises over 300' or something other more specific.

Even though Salt Lake City's greater metro area is currently much larger in population than those mentioned, it also continues to grow at a much faster pace. Now I'm only assuming by what the local Wasatch Front forum posts report. That is that SLC's greater MSA/CSA construction is adding all phases of residential and commercial development including dense mid-rise multi-unit residential at a stunning rate, and is still not able to even begin to keep pace with the demand. In fact, That urban area of Utah's Wasatch Front has a long waiting list of people just trying to get in.

According to the latest 2020 report by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget and the United States Census Bureau, of the 175 largest MSA/CSA listed in order of population are as follows: For the entire list go to...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area

Just those greater MSA/CSA's that you mentioned as being in the same peer group.

Salt Lake City - Rank #22 at 2,672,368...decade growth +17.64%

Providence, RI-Mass - Rank #38 at 1,622,520... (According to its own internal data)

Louisville, KY-IN - Rank #40 at 1,493,587...+5.28%

Grand Rapids - Rank #42 at 1,418,089... +7.43%

Richmond - Rank #47 at 1,263,617(According to its own internal data)

Buffalo - Rank - #48 at 1,201,500... minus -1.18%

* Also, give or take 100,000 in pop. Salt Lake City's Wasatch Front would be in the same peer group population as St. Louis, Charlotte, Sacramento, San Antonio and Pittsburgh: Two of these have been stagnant or have lost population over the past decade while #22 Salt Lake City, #21 Charlotte and #24 San Antonio are among the fastest-growing MSA/CSA's in the nation. I would be far more interested in comparing greater Salt Lake City's mid-rise density multi-unit construction growth to those cities of comparable size and growth rate.

I would also be interested in how the Berkadia Reports for greater metros that are similar in size and growth percentage compare when talking about different aspects of construction such as all aspects of commercial, transportation infrastructure, single-family residential construction, etc.
Providence is part of the Boston CSA, which has over 8 million people.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 3:46 PM
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^^^
Thanks, I edited that out. I guess Providence likes to consider itself independent from greater Boston. Now I'm wondering what Richmond is being thrown in with.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 5:01 PM
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Salt Lake City's MSA is about what...1.2 million? That feels about right for SLC. Having been there many times, I can definitely say it does not feel like a 2.6 million person metro. It's certainly doesn't feel anywhere near as large or substantial as a place like Pittsburgh or St. Louis. If you include basically all of northern Utah you get up to 2.6 million, but that seems like quite a stretch to claim that all as SLC. I mean, hell, the entire state of Utah is only 3.2 million!
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  #60  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 5:18 PM
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I just think MSA is more accurate in general than CSA. I think you can make a case that Ogden and Provo are part of SLC in some ways, and they are contiguous at this point, but they do feel like their own distinct cities to me.

SLC feels more like a city of 1.3 million. For a city that size, it has a pretty good skyline already and really good public transit (for a US city). It's definitely smaller than Denver and definitely bigger than Boise.
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