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  #61  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 12:44 AM
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eminent domain is a slippery slope in this case. It should only be used for redevelopment when it comes to stubborn landlords and tenants refusing to improve condemned/dangerous structures, not to acquire extra funding for a state agenda.
Which is exactly what MSG is, and stands in the way of getting anything done. This is not the use of eminent domain to tear up blocks of homes of private citizens. Penn Station is vital to New York, and if it comes to eminent domain to get things done, then that's what you do. I don't see a slippery slope here. In fact, Cuomo's proposed district is pretty small in scope. The block south of MSG is a virtually barren wasteland of parking lots.

There is only one building there I would even consider saving, provided it was cleaned up. To me it's a piece of the original Penn Station, something I never got to see. Every time I walk by it, I imagine it as a slice of that great station.





https://www.loc.gov/item/ny1785/

Pennsylvania Station, New York Terminal Service Plant, 250 West Thirty-first Street


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The New York Terminal Service Plant was constructed as an integral component of the original Pennsylvania Station complex and served as a power generation and control center for the station, its tracks and signal systems. the facade was designed by McKim Mead & White to complement the exterior of the Pennsylvania Station. While much of the original service equipment has been dismantled or abandoned, some of the original power distribution equipment is still in use and a significant portion of the interior remains intact. The building has been determined National Register eligible by the New York State Historic Preservation Office.














https://www.amny.com/transit/penn-st...den-1.11053839
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  #62  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 12:46 AM
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WTH is she bringing up Singapore about?

And even if I did fully understand the reference, I highly suspect an apples and oranges argument on her part.
It's just a stand in for any random town that's not New York. They usually go with "Hong Kong" or "Dubai". But she's an idiot for even suggesting it. You have buildings going up all around Manhattan, but if you put up buildings there, suddenly it wouldn't be New York. Please.
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  #63  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 1:05 AM
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A comparison of another development plan from another era...of course this one wouldn't be a clean sweep.







http://www.vintag.es/2016/09/rare-ph...7-showing.html
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  #64  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 1:14 AM
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The immediate vicinity of MSG is blighted. I support tearing it down.

However, I’m glad that many of the prewar office towers are just outside of this zone.
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  #65  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 1:19 AM
antinimby antinimby is offline
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It’s NYC. You don’t need to eminent domain anything (that’s not some kind of infrastructure project). You just upzone it and the free market will find the best use for it on its own.
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  #66  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 3:09 AM
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Which is exactly what MSG is, and stands in the way of getting anything done. This is not the use of eminent domain to tear up blocks of homes of private citizens. Penn Station is vital to New York, and if it comes to eminent domain to get things done, then that's what you do. I don't see a slippery slope here. In fact, Cuomo's proposed district is pretty small in scope. The block south of MSG is a virtually barren wasteland of parking lots.

There is only one building there I would even consider saving, provided it was cleaned up. To me it's a piece of the original Penn Station, something I never got to see. Every time I walk by it, I imagine it as a slice of that great station.
Speaking of the block between 7th and 8th south of penn, as tonyNYC mentions the church there is quaint..

However,

If Gateway ever comes to full fruition then that whole block is getting razed not just for new office space but as new terminal tracks below ground for penn station. It's supposed to continue across 7th as well taking out a pair of nice pre-wars.

It'd be nicer if they aligned the tracks closer to ninth avenue instead, (Or north of penn as I mentioned before)

While this forum is generally concerned with new skyscrapers, its important to note that fixing penn is the primary goal for this rezoning, (And the justification for the state's involvement), and so far the state's been pushing full steam ahead with picturing that block south of penn as part of the future station.

There's a lot that needs to be done cosmetically to fix penn, but functionally it needs more platforms. (Or run through trains but thats for rethinkNYC to push)

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  #67  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 4:08 AM
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/vornado...tories&tesla=y

Vornado and Related Venture Hoping to Create Research Center at Farley Building
The venture is looking to attract biotechnology, pharmaceutical and other so-called ‘life sciences’ businesses to the redevelopment of the old Farley Post Office

By Keiko Morris
April 1, 2018 11:00 a.m. ET

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  #68  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 12:29 PM
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Perhaps Cuomo thinks of an area that will be like this?





http://jdsdevelopment.com/empire-station-proposal/

PLUS 15 Penn Plaza



AND A 1,300/1,400 ft tower on Penn East tower site but without modified 1 Penn Plaza base.
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  #69  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 1:57 PM
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Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
It’s NYC. You don’t need to eminent domain anything (that’s not some kind of infrastructure project). You just upzone it and the free market will find the best use for it on its own.
Yeah, tell that to the City Council though. Also, MSG is entrenched in it's site. No amount of money will get them to move because they already know there isn't a better location.
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  #70  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 1:59 PM
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Perhaps Cuomo thinks of an area that will be like this?
That's the idea, though most of the Vornado portions aren't shown.



Dan Highton Photography

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  #71  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 2:09 PM
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[b]I wonder if Cuomo's proposal will include a return of this proposal for 2 Penn...it would have lifted a max FAR cap on the site.






It was similar to what was being proposed for the "four corners" at the time. That was all dropped due to the City Council.








Give us something like SHoP's Gotham tower...




https://www.pinterest.com/pin/396739048400987696/




http://www.shoparc.com/projects/gotham-gateway/
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Last edited by NYguy; Apr 2, 2018 at 2:24 PM.
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  #72  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 7:53 PM
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A virtual walk-through of the potentially upzoned area, using Google Earth.



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  #73  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 8:12 PM
JMKeynes JMKeynes is offline
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While I favor the preservation of old buildings, this is the worst area of Manhattan below 96th Street. Therefore, I anticipate the wrecking ball.
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  #74  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 8:35 PM
Prezrezc Prezrezc is offline
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ASide from the store brands and precious few other indicators, I'd swear those pics were from at least the late 1980's.

They illustrate, in my view, a lesser known reason why the New York Knick basketball franchise still couldn't draw flies if they soaked their jerseys before every game in moose vomit......
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  #75  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 11:04 PM
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They illustrate, in my view, a lesser known reason why the New York Knick basketball franchise still couldn't draw flies if they soaked their jerseys before every game in moose vomit......

Not sure what you mean, but the Knicks have always drawn, whether the team itself was good or bad. Here's attendance average of the last 3 years...

http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance/_/year/2016
http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance/_/year/2017
http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance
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  #76  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 11:23 PM
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I don't want to see the Gimbel's or Saks Herald Square buildings go. And if reasonable saving the Penn Powerhouse. Most of everything else is trash and needs to bite it so another era can be born.
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  #77  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2018, 11:33 PM
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I doubt the Manhattan Mall would be demo'd. If anything, incorporated into something else or at least relocated. Macy's wouldn't be touched, thats a given. That's history right there plus its a National Historic Landmark. But the trash along MSG, yes, those crummy low-rises/shacks with substandard stores.
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  #78  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 3:39 AM
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I doubt the Manhattan Mall would be demo'd. If anything, incorporated into something else or at least relocated. Macy's wouldn't be touched, thats a given. That's history right there plus its a National Historic Landmark. But the trash along MSG, yes, those crummy low-rises/shacks with substandard stores.
Let One Penn stay standing (And fulfill Vornado's plan to bring One and Two Penn together into one big complex and renovate them both), and I'm with you!
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  #79  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 4:09 AM
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Let One Penn stay standing (And fulfill Vornado's plan to bring One and Two Penn together into one big complex and renovate them both), and I'm with you!
2 penn needs to be imploded yesterday.
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  #80  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2018, 4:54 AM
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I'd wait till after it gets its reclad- I do wish they would get started on that soon, though. Poor Two Penn, even One Penn has its admirers.
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