PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[New2Fishtown]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

SOKO hasn't started yet, but liberty square across the street from this (same developers as this proposal) is about to break ground with their large public plaza and commercial spaces.

Unfortunately, even with a surplus of parking while only 5 minutes to the girard st stop and a great design, the neighborhood still thought it was too dense and too tall so we won't be getting this project.

Which project of the three (SOKO, Liberty, 1222 N 2nd) are you referring to when you say we won't be getting it?

[cafeguy]

Originally Posted by New2Fishtown

Which project of the three (SOKO, Liberty, 1222 N 2nd) are you referring to when you say we won't be getting it?

1222 n 2nd

[boxbot]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

1222 n 2nd

Didn't they just submit the redesign? How has it been shot down already?

[cafeguy]

Originally Posted by boxbot

Didn't they just submit the redesign? How has it been shot down already?

The neighborhood group voted last night and since there were only 4 people who seemed to actually support it, the vote was either "NO" or "Yes if they increased open space and reduced the height". I'm assuming the conditional yes won, but the complex has already increased open space and decreased the density by 2 floors and from 120ish to 70ish units....and demanding more ground floor open space as well as decreasing the height pretty much kills the financial feasibility of the project....especially with the nice design and expensive materials.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

The neighborhood group voted last night and since there were only 4 people who seemed to actually support it, the vote was either "NO" or "Yes if they increased open space and reduced the height". I'm assuming the conditional yes won, but the complex has already increased open space and decreased the density by 2 floors and from 120ish to 70ish units....and demanding more ground floor open space as well as decreasing the height pretty much kills the financial feasibility of the project....especially with the nice design and expensive materials.

What does zoning permit?

[cafeguy]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

What does zoning permit?

Its a weird industrial zoning. As far as I am to know, they needed a variance to allow residential. They met the 20% i believe in the definition for the city which includes roof decks and such.

The ground floor open space was increased from the last meeting, but not enough to appease the neighbors.

[Fairmount2Fishtown]

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines..._and_Arch.html

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

Its a weird industrial zoning. As far as I am to know, they needed a variance to allow residential. They met the 20% i believe in the definition for the city which includes roof decks and such.

The ground floor open space was increased from the last meeting, but not enough to appease the neighbors.

That's getting ridiculous.

The developer's charisma is often important at these kinds of meetings. But why would a neighborhood that still has as much empty space as Old Kenzo has be opposed to good urban infill close to the El? Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?

[cafeguy]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

That's getting ridiculous.

The developer's charisma is often important at these kinds of meetings. But why would a neighborhood that still has as much empty space as Old Kenzo has be opposed to good urban infill close to the El? Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?

In the neighborhood's defense, they have liberty square, SOKO, and then this one (600ish units total) which have all been proposed but yet to be started. Liberty Square is days from breaking ground, but I think they are simply nervous to approve things and have them switched on them like what happened with SOKO.

BUT, i have to say, many of the residents just seemed opposed to development for development's sake...Once they didn't have the parking edge since the development comes with an automated elevator parking kiosk thing...they turned to their hatred of renters (of which I argued when I was a renter, I planted trees and volunteered in the neighborhood. His response was, "what use are trees!?")

...shadows (of which there were none on homes)

...the fear of this part of the neighborhood which they want to be commercial becoming a "gorge between two halves of the neighborhood" (which is silly since we are talking about bringing buildings that will create commercial...not to mention that this location with all the abandoned warehouses and vacant lots is CURRENTLY a gorge that needs to be fixed.)

...the height (again which is silly since although there are mostly row homes here, we have about 6 historic buildings that are taller than this one even and I mean... to paraphrase some people from manhattan at the meeting, "It's five freakin' stories tall, why are we objecting something that is only five stories tall!?!?!?")

...then there were the people yelling, "This is Philadelphia! Not Manhattan!"

...then there were people saying that the materials won't "age well"...even though its an amazing design and the neighborhood constantly approves what are arguably awful awful $400-500K homes throughout the neighbrohood.

...then there were the people saying, "its all just too much building all at once" (when I'm sitting there with my house LITERALLY in the construction zone thinking that if we can just get this all finished now and fast, it would be great).

I think that once we start actually getting at least ONE of these large projects being built, the neighborhood will come around to them, but right now, they are just voting with their gut feelings....cause really, you need density to support commercial and everyone agrees that they want commercial right there. PLUS, it come with parking AND it is incredibly close to the Trolley, Bus, and subway...like less than a five minute walk.

[Philly-Drew]

I can't believe people are opposing this development. Wow. From a development standpoint, opposing it doesn't make any sense at all. The people opposing it are likely more afraid of change, new people, parking, etc.

I mean, this is one handsome 5 story proposal for sure.

I wish I was there when someone said "This is Philadelphia, not Manhattan!" I would have said, "exactly, that's why this is a 5 story proposal and not a 75 story proposal".

This would be a great project for that neighborhood. I really hope it gets approved as is, or with a bit more density.

[tsarstruck]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

Its a weird industrial zoning. As far as I am to know, they needed a variance to allow residential. They met the 20% i believe in the definition for the city which includes roof decks and such.

The ground floor open space was increased from the last meeting, but not enough to appease the neighbors.

Open space doesn't include roof decks.

[cafeguy]

Originally Posted by tsarstruck

Open space doesn't include roof decks.

Well, I am definitely unsure and confused about open space requirements. However, when you look at the density of buildings like these, it just seems like a weird rule to have in regard to open space anyway. What's so special about ground floor open space?

For townhomes, open space is private so it doesn't contribute to the neighborhood in any way. It does, however, reduce creating unusable tenement townhomes.

But for apartments....what does it do? Open space can be private, again not contributing to the neighborhood. But as for apartments, the idea of tenement housing isn't much of a concern since we regulate that by creating square foot minimums.

So, open space requirements do nothing for the neighborhood for apartments and townhomes. While they may help to prevent too compact townhomes, they do nothing to create a better living standard for apartments.

And in that regard, why would roof decks or large roof patios like the one on this project not count toward open space when the goal of open space is to simply create open space for the residents? A circle of open space in the center of the complex is much worst than an entire roof deck that contains usable amenities.

When it comes apartments, open space requirements just seem misplaced.

[hammersklavier]

Guardian article about us:

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/20...ca-urban-dream

[tsarstruck]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

Well, I am definitely unsure and confused about open space requirements. However, when you look at the density of buildings like these, it just seems like a weird rule to have in regard to open space anyway. What's so special about ground floor open space?

For townhomes, open space is private so it doesn't contribute to the neighborhood in any way. It does, however, reduce creating unusable tenement townhomes.

But for apartments....what does it do? Open space can be private, again not contributing to the neighborhood. But as for apartments, the idea of tenement housing isn't much of a concern since we regulate that by creating square foot minimums.

So, open space requirements do nothing for the neighborhood for apartments and townhomes. While they may help to prevent too compact townhomes, they do nothing to create a better living standard for apartments.

And in that regard, why would roof decks or large roof patios like the one on this project not count toward open space when the goal of open space is to simply create open space for the residents? A circle of open space in the center of the complex is much worst than an entire roof deck that contains usable amenities.

When it comes apartments, open space requirements just seem misplaced.

I'm not going to go into the merits, but the open space (and rear yard setback) are primarily for light and air for other properties.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by tsarstruck

I'm not going to go into the merits, but the open space (and rear yard setback) are primarily for light and air for other properties.

I believe drainage and water run-off is also part of the thought process behind these requirements. Which I think helps explain why roof decks and balconies aren't applied to the total.

[Tlphila]

I was up in Port Richmond visiting a friend and snapped a few pics of some projects! Does anyone else think this area is prime to heat up sooner rather then later? There are plenty of young hipsters etc walking around, and the Fishtown construction insanity is nipping at Lehigh Ave.

Richmond St. Port Richmond:




New River Wards Cafe






Some Kenzo / western edge of Fishtown stuff:

[summersm343]

8th and Berks - Potential Plans?

Large image:
http://bwa-architects.com/wp-content...8662108317.jpg

Large image:
http://bwa-architects.com/wp-content...t-IanSmith.jpg

Phase 1 includes 70 senior rental apartments, on-site support services, and ground level retail. Phase 2 adds an urban park and 33 semi-detached affordable and market rate home ownership units.

http://bwa-architects.com/project/8t...ortfolioID=255

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by summersm343

8th and Berks - Potential Plans?

Large image:
http://bwa-architects.com/wp-content...8662108317.jpg

Large image:
http://bwa-architects.com/wp-content...t-IanSmith.jpg



http://bwa-architects.com/project/8t...ortfolioID=255

An improvement to what's there now (i.e. nothing), but wow is that a lot of green space. It looks like more of the semi-suburban stuff in the area than it does something like Paseo Verde.

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by Tlphila

I was up in Port Richmond visiting a friend and snapped a few pics of some projects! Does anyone else think this area is prime to heat up sooner rather then later? There are plenty of young hipsters etc walking around, and the Fishtown construction insanity is nipping at Lehigh Ave.

Richmond St. Port Richmond:




New River Wards Cafe






Some Kenzo / western edge of Fishtown stuff:

Excellent pics! I haven't gotten around to exploring Port Richmond yet. I'll try to do so this summer as I have to go back to college tomorrow.

Port Richmond is definitely prime for development. The only thing that holds it back is the massive Lehigh Viaduct. When I read the Philadelphia 2035 River Wards District Plan, there was something in there about improvements to the Viaduct. I forget what they are now, but they looked great in the plans!

[39.95n]

Regarding 1222 N 2nd, RCO's don't have a veto. Only question before the ZBA is hardship. Given the fact that the parcel is zoned I-2 in amongst a bunch of residential/mixed use classified lots suggests the developer may have a decent shot. At course, the ZBA's decision can be appealed either way