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  #13441  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 12:54 AM
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Oceanwide signs letter of intent to sell DTLA project to potential buyer

https://therealdeal.com/la/2022/12/0...plaza-project/
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  #13442  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 1:33 AM
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It's definitely a big move from Oceanwide.

https://media-oceanwide.todayir.com/...0530090_en.pdf

Here's their actual filing posted today. Looks like they're trying to regain control of their core holdings in Shanghai, and thus are finally looking to sell LA. This is big, as every financial statement they've made for the last few years has been that they wanted to hold onto Oceanwide Plaza in LA while divesting everything else.

Some quotes

Quote:
"On 15 August 2022 (Los Angeles time), Oceanwide Plaza LLC, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Company, entered into a non-legally binding and non-exclusive letter of intent (the “LA LOI”) with a potential buyer (the “Potential LA Project Buyer”) for the disposal of the Group’s real estate development project located in Los Angeles, the United States of America (the “U.S.”) (the “LA Project”) (the “Potential LA Disposal”). The purchase and sale agreement is now under negotiation between the Group and the Potential LA Project Buyer"
Quote:
"Despite the Potential LA Disposal, the Group has also been exploring and in
discussion with potential interested parties in connection with other cooperation
opportunities including but not limited to developing the LA Project by forming a joint
venture."
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  #13443  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 1:45 AM
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Awesome

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChelseaFC View Post
Oceanwide signs letter of intent to sell DTLA project to potential buyer

https://therealdeal.com/la/2022/12/0...plaza-project/
This is awesome!
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  #13444  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 2:07 AM
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Awesome news,

Let's get their projects in SF and NY sold too
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  #13445  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 3:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChelseaFC View Post
Oceanwide signs letter of intent to sell DTLA project to potential buyer

https://therealdeal.com/la/2022/12/0...plaza-project/
This is the best news we could have hoped for, given Oceanwide can't finish the project themselves. Everybody cross your fingers!
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  #13446  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 5:26 AM
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It sounds like oceanwide is still sniffing around to see if it can both sell to but also partner with another investor. This article from bloomberg mentions negative publicity about dtla...LA....discouraging potential investors. Even in the past when getting investors to pour money into dt was an uphill battle, slowing things down further is even worse. LA city govt & other local influencers had better get their act together.

Quote:
A Chinese developer of beleaguered projects across the US has found a potential buyer for a stalled Los Angeles complex where it spent $1.2 billion before running out of money. 

China Oceanwide Holdings Ltd. said a “purchase and sale agreement is now under negotiation” between the company and the potential buyer, according to a filing in Hong Kong Friday.

Since the pandemic, the city has suffered from a reputation for rising crime and rampant homelessness that deters investors, according to Lewis Horne, president of the Southern California district of CBRE Group Inc. “In downtown Los Angeles, there’s a very negative narrative going on right now,” Horne said.

Exiting Los Angeles would be a turnabout for the company, which early this year said it intended to monetize other US holdings to focus on the Southern California project. The company hasn’t yet given up on salvaging a stake in that development, according to the filing.

Even as it’s in talks with a potential buyer, Oceanwide said it “has also been exploring and in discussion with potential interested parties in connection with other cooperation opportunities,” including forming a joint venture. 
Talk about dtla falling apart is hardly a new phenomenon. If it's wheezing today, it had a stroke over 20 yrs ago. After dealing with yrs of this, it's still discouraging having to go through another down cycle, which other cities may also experience to varying degrees over the next few yrs....


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  #13447  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 5:58 AM
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Before I put citywatch back on ignore, I'll note that any potential developer worth his salt would understand that Oceanwide's project is in a relatively clean and safe part of downtown LA. It's a fantastic location.

I moved back to LA last year after a 20-year stint in San Francisco. Downtown today is profoundly better than it was 20 years ago, like night and day better. It has its problems to be sure, especially homeless issues, but that is not unique to downtown specifically, or to Los Angeles generally.
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  #13448  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 7:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigs View Post
Before I put citywatch back on ignore, I'll note that any potential developer worth his salt would understand that Oceanwide's project is in a relatively clean and safe part of downtown LA. It's a fantastic location.

I moved back to LA last year after a 20-year stint in San Francisco. Downtown today is profoundly better than it was 20 years ago, like night and day better. It has its problems to be sure, especially homeless issues, but that is not unique to downtown specifically, or to Los Angeles generally.
Make sure you put citywatch back on ignore. That caliber of person is not happy with their life. You can’t take anything he or she says seriously.

But yes this great news.
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  #13449  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 5:18 PM
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Don't recall where I read that the brickell section of miami is a better version of dtla. May have been a posting under the youtube vid about why dtla is so small. DTLA has a fuller history than that of miami, due partly to hurricanes that hit it in the early 1900s & destroyed its version of properties like the ones around dtla's broadway or spring st.

this native of the LA area...lancaster...gives a rundown of his experiences living in LA & how commuting, transportation & devlpt patterns affect the way LA has to be judged. The decline of dtla starting over 90 yrs ago is one reason why trends in LA pushed it in the direction of becoming way too much of a burban sprawl.

However, the red car of the early 1900s dispels the assumption that LA started to sprawl because of its fwys & not things like its trains built by Henry Huntington. It's similar to the way that inland pasadena dispels the notion that DTLA has been hurt through the decades because it's so far away from the Pacific or a scenic body of water.

https://youtu.be/Hjmbt1jBVmY?t=291

^ When cities like miami's dt are in certain ways one upping LA's dt, that's another example of time waiting for no one person, no one place. Example: Miami is going to have the tallest tower on the east coast outside of NYC.

Ppl & cities are all in it to win it.
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  #13450  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 6:05 PM
hughfb3 hughfb3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
Don't recall where I read that the brickell section of miami is a better version of dtla.

It's similar to the way that inland pasadena dispels the notion that DTLA has been hurt through the decades because it's so far away from the Pacific or a scenic body of water.

Ppl & cities are all in it to win it.
Downtown Los Angeles has been struggling ever since they paved the river in the 1940’s. Downtown Miami is on a working river. Google: Miami River Downtown

Every major city (Pasadena is not major) was established on the basis that there is some natural feature that gives reason or purpose to its location. Sometimes that natural feature is the source of water, sometimes its the source of a navigable waterway that is shielded in some way from the greater ocean, sometimes the natural feature is a source of protection and defense. When that natural feature intersects with a place humans are either traveling to or through, there lies a city. There are no major cities in the world where the central city is built right on the ocean or where there is no fresh water... its usually protected by a bay of some sort, or along a river that leads to the ocean, then there are beach cities and other smaller communities that radiate from there... (the Pasadenas and such)

Imagine if one day the Thames was paved over for a freeway and seeing "Big Ben" or the Tower Bridge and Palace of Westminster next to a mass of concrete. Would there be demand to live there the way it is today?? Sure, based off of the historical existence of the city, but it would not be as desirable and it might take longer to develop into a fully thriving place. This is Los Angeles' central city today

Los Angeles has forgotten the entire reason it exists and why it was founded at the location it was founded on. The River gives the city purpose and Life via fresh water and beauty. The moment the Los Angeles river returns to a beautiful natural state will be the moment Los Angeles will have found itself again and downtown Los Angeles will be the center of the region with purpose. Until then... it will be the struggle bus for us as there is no current reason for downtown to exist at the location that it is at... its all past-based

All of these major cities' downtowns (central cities); yes even the "coastal" ones, exist along a river or a body of water with a river feeding into it thereby giving their region a central city with purpose. Imagine any of these cities without their reason for existence... that thing being replaced with concrete

New York City - Hudson River to New York Harbor
London - Thames River to North Sea
Cairo - Nile River to the Sea
Miami - Miami River to Biscayne Bay
Rio de Janeiro - Self explanatory - English translation (River of January)
Shanghai - Huangpu River
Tokyo - Sumida River
Lagos - Adiyan River and tributaries Agboyi Creek to Lagos Harbor
Philadelphia - Deleware River
Houston - Buffalo Bayou and Whiteouk Bayou Rivers to Galveston Bay
Nairobi - Nairobi River
Chicago - Chicago River to Lake Michigan
Boston - Charles and Mystic Rivers to Boston Harbor
Rome - Tiber River to the Sea
Jacksonville, FL - St Johns River to the Atlantic Ocean
Dallas - Trinity River
Denver - Cherry Creek & South Plate Rivers

On to an update...

8th & Fig and Beaudry




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Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
Ppl tend to feel good about cities that are impressive or attractive...they react less positively towards cities that are not.
We are saying the same thing, but you are using an old picture of DT and trying to address today's issue as if those buildings are still there. We've built the impressive buildings, structures and roads in the 1960's-1990's. That's not the missing link. Every downtown needs an attractive natural feature which LA does not have.

Last edited by hughfb3; Dec 3, 2022 at 8:30 PM.
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  #13451  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2022, 7:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hughfb3 View Post
All of these major cities; yes even the "coastal" ones, are founded along a river or a body of water with a river feeding into it thereby giving their region a central city with purpose. Imagine any of these cities without their reason for existence... that thing being replaced with concrete
I agree that the misnamed LA river...since it's now more of a concrete channel...wouldn't have taken away from dtla's positives if it had been more scenic. But I also get why huge floods in the early 1900s forced city officials, working with the US army corps of engineers, to pave it over. That wouldn't have been as much of an issue if more of dt had been better developed starting over 90 yrs ago. Notice how other than mainly LA city hall, most of the other properties in this photo are smaller rundown burban scaled houses & apt bldgs. It's not too impressive or attractive.


waterandpower.org


Ppl tend to feel good about cities that are impressive or attractive...they react less positively towards cities that are not. So even if the LA river had been a scenic waterway or the beaches of Samo or venice were right next to dt, if dtla still didn't have large tracts of quality or nice looking devlpt, it would have remained at a disadvantage. If parts of broadway or spring st from the early 1900s had made up most of dtla instead of maybe just around 15% of it, that would have changed its history.

Regardless, I always like watching vids about dtla from several yrs ago to realize it is better in various ways in 2022 than it was in the past....

Video Link



EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughfb3 View Post
We've built the impressive buildings, structures and roads in the 1960's-1990's. That's not the missing link. Every downtown needs an attractive natural feature which LA does not have.
That's correct too, but whenever I'm in dt I still run into areas that are not ready for prime time. Such as all the land where the olympia proj is supposed to go up....in a very visible part of dt. Or the parking lot & vacant food stand at the NE corner of 4th & Hill St. That's where equity residential had scheduled an apt bldg to be developed.

What's now known as south pk still has a lot of parking lots or small brick or masonry bldgs that aren't appealing or impressive. I see things like that, which are more noticeable to me when I'm actually in dtla, than my not seeing a nearby scenic body of water, whether the coastline or riverfront. There remains enough gaps in dt that visitors continue to have a sense it's still a work in progress.

That's not as apparent in 2022 as it was in 2001, when all the land north of the former staples ctr was still a huge parking lot....

https://youtu.be/4Q8v0TwPCi4?t=3168

btw, I posted a link the other day to a vid that put dtla in a poor light. The same youtuber shows another part of calif that's just as miserable & disheartening. I think of this when ppl complain, as one example, that the facade of the grand ave proj across from Disney Hall isn't ideal, that dt's bldgs aren't tall enough or when I'm grousing about dtla's deadzones.....

https://youtu.be/IzLC48jZPrc

Last edited by citywatch; Dec 3, 2022 at 9:28 PM.
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  #13452  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2022, 3:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
Don't recall where I read that the brickell section of miami is a better version of dtla. May have been a posting under the youtube vid about why dtla is so small. DTLA has a fuller history than that of miami, due partly to hurricanes that hit it in the early 1900s & destroyed its version of properties like the ones around dtla's broadway or spring st.

this native of the LA area...lancaster...gives a rundown of his experiences living in LA & how commuting, transportation & devlpt patterns affect the way LA has to be judged. The decline of dtla starting over 90 yrs ago is one reason why trends in LA pushed it in the direction of becoming way too much of a burban sprawl.

However, the red car of the early 1900s dispels the assumption that LA started to sprawl because of its fwys & not things like its trains built by Henry Huntington. It's similar to the way that inland pasadena dispels the notion that DTLA has been hurt through the decades because it's so far away from the Pacific or a scenic body of water.

https://youtu.be/Hjmbt1jBVmY?t=291

^ When cities like miami's dt are in certain ways one upping LA's dt, that's another example of time waiting for no one person, no one place. Example: Miami is going to have the tallest tower on the east coast outside of NYC.

Ppl & cities are all in it to win it.
Brickell looks so overrated. There's barely any urban retail and it's a bunch of parking garages. Downtown LA also has way more pedestrians.
More highrises doesn't mean more impressive. The most sterile parts of NYC and Chicago are the ones with the most highrises.

I used to live in Streeterville in Chicago (almost everyting is over 30 floors) and it's not a fun place to be in. If it wasn't for tourists going to Navy Pier, it would be pretty damn dead. And this was true pre covid.

The saving grace its adjacent to Michigan Ave so you have something to walk to. But the neighborhood itself? No.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8934...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8932...7i16384!8i8192

impressive looking? Sure. But that's not everything.

Last edited by LA21st; Dec 4, 2022 at 3:53 AM.
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  #13453  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2022, 4:24 AM
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Brickell looks so overrated. There's barely any urban retail and it's a bunch of parking garages. Downtown LA also has way more pedestrians.
More highrises doesn't mean more impressive. The most sterile parts of NYC and Chicago are the ones with the most highrises.

I used to live in Streeterville in Chicago (almost everyting is over 30 floors) and it's not a fun place to be in. If it wasn't for tourists going to Navy Pier, it would be pretty damn dead. And this was true pre covid.

The saving grace its adjacent to Michigan Ave so you have something to walk to. But the neighborhood itself? No.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8934...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8932...7i16384!8i8192

impressive looking? Sure. But that's not everything.
This is so true! DTLA now has more pedestrians that San Francisco. It’s pretty amazing. I was just up there a couple of months ago and was throughly surprised.
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  #13454  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2022, 4:44 PM
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More highrises doesn't mean more impressive. The most sterile parts of NYC and Chicago are the ones with the most highrises.

impressive looking? Sure. But that's not everything.
Whenever I'm in dtla...feet on the ground or driving around....the last thing that goes through my mind is: I sure wish the bldgs were taller!

When I see a new proj or proposal...unlike various ppl at ssp....I just about never go: I sure wish it could be taller! But I do wish that dtla had fewer surface parking lots & fewer 1 or 2 story warehouse type properties, such as what still makes up too much of south pk & the eastern side of dt.

these 2 comments posted under a youtube vid on dtla sum up both the positive & negative of LA...of dtla. btw, any place, anywhere gives off a different feel & look when it has lots of ppl strolling around. Crowds of ppl out & about give any city or location a more popular vibe.

Quote:
https://youtu.be/sNdeULjnyPc

Douglas Ennis
It's a ghost town... LA is land of cars

A R
LA have that lil something

this is a work in progress, but to me (& ppl like AR) it does have that 'lil something'. The Fla city known for coconut palms & tropical weather seems more manicured & historically, culturally shallower. But its economics are coming on strong. Same three things are true of Canada's largest city. Again, everyone is in it to win it.


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  #13455  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 1:27 AM
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  #13456  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 1:57 AM
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Metropolis looks like signal bars on a cell phone.
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  #13457  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 3:50 AM
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Metropolis looks like signal bars on a cell phone.
Lol…awesome pic though!
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  #13458  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 4:37 PM
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Gorgeous pic Craigs!!

Silverstein is redoing everything that OUE did just 6 years ago on the Library Tower

New ground floor interface glass for the lobby


On the inside, gone is the giant LED screen that OUE thought was cool. Replaced with what looks to be a "living wall" with greenery


What it used to look like


The Los Angeles King of Skyscrapers

Last edited by hughfb3; Dec 6, 2022 at 7:09 PM.
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  #13459  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 7:00 PM
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I guess they wanted a different vibe. Ha
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  #13460  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 7:33 PM
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Skyline is looking more and more impressive each year, especially from this angle:
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