HOUSTON | Development Thread II

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Wattleigh

Again, I think this is a both/and proposition. Are these venues for the locals? Of course. Is there the potential to grow the regional tourism economy in the process and broaden the reach and appeal of the city and metro, especially this area at the same time? Also, Of course.

The best example is probably the one that will likely appeal to the broadest range of tastes: Great Wolf Lodge. That chain is definitely a destination for families. Where I currently live in Kansas, I'm about 3 hours from one in Kansas City, KS and 5 hours from one in Grapevine. It's a 50/50 split based on where folks tend to go, but there are a lot of families that plan long weekends, spring breaks, and other assorted holidays and make their base there. Yes, that means they will break from the confines of the lodge and explore their surroundings.

It may not even be in the Loop, but within 5-10 miles of it are a number of Houston-specific destinations that would qualify as something that could appeal to different groups of tourists. JSC/Space Center Houston probably would be the largest, but there's also the Lone Star Flight Museum as well. There's a legitimately well-run mall across the freeway that still manages to bring in about 20 million people a year. Among all the other restaurants along Nasa Rd 1 is one of my favorite Italian spots in that part of the area and is one of the more quintessentially old school "Houston" restaurants on that side of town. Plenty o' chains for those who want them - even big astronaut McDonalds.

Minus the latter, all of that is in Houston's city limits. I'm not aware of many people that would get hyped up about a McDonalds being in Nassau Bay vs Houston but whatever.



The problem with this is that it isn't simply and solely "some resort in Galveston" nor did I say the city/area would specifically become "a tourist destination".

As I said before, this is actually a series of cumulative developments that happen to be both extremely close to the city proper as well as to other communities that could enhance that portion of the regional economy - which is a great thing.

There's a reason that region in particular is marketed as Bay Area Houston in both the tourism and business realms over individual chambers and CVBs. Those smaller cities and communities may have a stake in the organizations, but at the end of the day, their city doesn't get top billing nor are they the drivers of much of the overall growth in the region.

As for the people who grouse about Houston or whatever, I really don't care what they think. That type of person is generally lazy and uninformed I find. Most that stay for a bit find the appeal that I and many others have over the years.

I'll happily take their money though, regardless how they feel and wherever they choose to spend it.

In my opinion, the best opportunity to attract tourists to the area would be to better market Galveston. I believe it is the 4th largest cruise terminal. How are its beaches? Since it is a relatively old Southern city, does it have a city scape (and food history) similar to New Orleans or Savannah that would interest tourists? Combining heavily marketing Galveston with other offerings like the Space Center would make Houston more attractive for tourists.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by Wattleigh

The problem with this is that it isn't simply and solely "some resort in Galveston" nor did I say the city/area would specifically become "a tourist destination".

Unless your name is Maddy McCarty, the article’s writer, I didn’t say you said anything. It was the article, especially its title, that implied Houston is becoming more of a destination as evidenced by the addition of those three resorts.

I doubt (just my opinion here) people attracted to coastal resorts are the same people attracted to Houston. People go to Galveston for fun in the sun. People go to Houston for museums, performing arts, food, food and food, nightlife, cultural diversity, shopping, sports, and NASA. I suspect people specifically visiting Houston are more likely to add a day trip to Galveston than the other way around.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by Wattleigh

The Woodlands

-Timberloch Tower Site Redevelopment

Found by TowerSpotter on HAIF who writes...



https://www.successlivesherehhc.com/texas/

I wish that were in Houston and not The Woodlands.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by DCReid

In my opinion, the best opportunity to attract tourists to the area would be to better market Galveston. I believe it is the 4th largest cruise terminal. How are its beaches? Since it is a relatively old Southern city, does it have a city scape (and food history) similar to New Orleans or Savannah that would interest tourists? Combining heavily marketing Galveston with other offerings like the Space Center would make Houston more attractive for tourists.

Galveston's selling point is that it has cruise terminals, some history and is a beach town within a couple of hours from most of the Houston area. However, it lacks the nice beaches like South Padre or the other side of the Gulf and nowhere near the sheer amount of historical districts like New Orleans or Savannah. Galveston has the Strand which is very nice and lot's to do but it is only about 4-5 blocks long along a single street. It's a great way to kill a few hours before a cruise.

Originally Posted by Wattleigh

Again, I think this is a both/and proposition. Are these venues for the locals? Of course. Is there the potential to grow the regional tourism economy in the process and broaden the reach and appeal of the city and metro, especially this area at the same time? Also, Of course.

We own a house down in the Clear Lake area; walking distance from JSC, less than 5 miles to soon to be open Great Wolf Lodge and less than 10 to the Kemah boardwalk plus Galveston about 20-30 minutes away. I think there is a lot potential to boost tourism in that area but I don't think the Bay Area/ Galveston will be destinations in their own right. It will always be for the locals and people already here on business or visiting family.

[The Best Forumer]

Originally Posted by Benji 4K Drone

Can you imagine all of Houston's major skyscrapers together in the center of the city?

I made a prototype of what all those buildings would look like together and also another one with the Williams Tower in Downtown, but i don’t know how to upload my pictures in this forum ������

Where is it? Send it to me and I can post it for you.

[Wattleigh]

Originally Posted by DCReid

In my opinion, the best opportunity to attract tourists to the area would be to better market Galveston. I believe it is the 4th largest cruise terminal. How are its beaches? Since it is a relatively old Southern city, does it have a city scape (and food history) similar to New Orleans or Savannah that would interest tourists? Combining heavily marketing Galveston with other offerings like the Space Center would make Houston more attractive for tourists.

Originally Posted by JManc

We own a house down in the Clear Lake area; walking distance from JSC, less than 5 miles to soon to be open Great Wolf Lodge and less than 10 to the Kemah boardwalk plus Galveston about 20-30 minutes away. I think there is a lot potential to boost tourism in that area but I don't think the Bay Area/ Galveston will be destinations in their own right. It will always be for the locals and people already here on business or visiting family.

This is basically my point. The Houston market already includes all of these areas - the Bay Area, Galveston, etc. are submarkets within it. As the number of resorts and destinations between all of these locales are built, they will boost the overall Houston market's desirability as a tourist destination to some extent.

Again, I'm not saying it's going to be the next Orlando or San Antonio or whatever, but I'm also not saying the new stuff is solely for the locals. It's more likely to grow over the upcoming years as a regional option for tourism and the money in that pot will only increase. That's pretty much it.

For what it's worth, Houston as a market is doing relatively well it seems based on the hotel information from January per CoStar. The CFP was likely a driver for group sales, but to me, that's all the better. The amount of events the Sports Authority has been landing for venues in the city proper that tend to draw a broader national & international audience stands only to increase the number of city and area visitors in upcoming years as well.

[Wattleigh]

The Ion/Ion District

Looks like the block with the Ion Garage to the northwest and Greentown Labs to the southwest (San Jacinto / Cleburne / Caroline / Eagle) will be redeveloped into grad student housing of some kind.

c/o hindesky on HAIF

[currysteph]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

I wish that were in Houston and not The Woodlands.

same difference.....I consider Houston to be from Conroe to Galveston and Brookshire to Mont Belvieu and New Caney to Roenberg

:-)

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by currysteph

I consider Houston to be from Conroe to Galveston and Brookshire to Mont Belvieu and New Caney to Roenberg

Hey, I’m a Smug InnerLooper (30+ years) who also spent years in both Sugar Land and Richmond. When speaking with fellow natives of the Swampland, if I say Houston, I mean Houston.

[Wattleigh]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

Hey, I’m a Smug InnerLooper (30+ years) who also spent years in both Sugar Land and Richmond. When speaking with fellow natives of the Swampland, if I say Houston, I mean Houston.

I tend to feel this way about the city proper, for the most part. Probably even more so about the latter two cities as I grew up in Fort Bend County.

A lot of the new people think they're moving to either and it turns out not to be the case pretty often in terms of the city itself. So many of the communities along the Grand Parkway or Westpark Tollway or FMs 359 or 723 are in those cities' respective zip codes but in someone else's ETJ entirely and in neither's city limits whatsoever.

Richmond hasn't done a lot of annexing to extend it's boundaries, but Sugar Land pretty famously did about 10 years ago and added about 30,000 people by taking in a few older subdivisions that were already fairly well associated with the city. They may do it again in the not too distant future.

Rosenberg has been doing it bit by bit over the past couple of decades in each direction, though the bulk of it has been south and west. The ETJ is pretty extensive, engulfing Beasley and extending to Kendleton's ETJ. The city limits actually wrap around parts of Beasley as well now. What a change.

Originally Posted by currysteph

same difference.....I consider Houston to be from Conroe to Galveston and Brookshire to Mont Belvieu and New Caney to Roenberg

:-)

If you're talking about the metro - this is pretty much it. I'd add further south to Freeport and all the other cities in the Brazosport area. It's about 60k population which isn't bad. More are definitely on the way.

For the northwest point, that's getting to be a bit tricky IMO. Pretty much anything along 290 through Waller County up to Hempstead would work since that's starting to fill-in pretty quickly. Also Magnolia along the Aggieland Expressway... that's within 20 miles of Navasota and 45 miles to the south side of College Station at this point! Feels faster when you drive it, of course.

I'm interested in seeing how long Rosenberg is the southwestern point though. The amount of development that is coming to that part of Fort Bend County and even further southwest toward Kendleton & the San Bernard River/Wharton County line is insane.

The Southwest Freeway is a solid 6 lanes / feeders / HOV all the way from Rosenberg back into the city. It's 6 lanes pretty much uninterrupted just past Rosenberg and back toward Kendleton now.

Even in Wharton County, the 6-lane configuration is being built out in a couple of sections right now, both on the north and south sides of Wharton and southwest toward El Campo.

I kind of ran into the same surprise driving into town on I-45 last year. The area now feels like it STARTS at Huntsville. Sure, there are breaks in development, but with the interstate under construction along the way, it didn't feel like it. It definitely picks up back around New Waverly and Willis though.

[bilbao58]

^ The freeway part of I-10 on the West side starts 58 miles from Downtown now.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by Wattleigh

I tend to feel this way about the city proper, for the most part. Probably even more so about the latter two cities as I grew up in Fort Bend County.

It's normal for someone from The Woodlands to tell someone in New York or Seattle that they live in Houston. That same person would never refer to The Woodlands as Houston when speaking to someone in Sugar Land or Katy.

Anyway, to be VERY specific, I wish the buildings in that rendering were on Allen Parkway and not in The Woodlands.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Wattleigh

I tend to feel this way about the city proper, for the most part. Probably even more so about the latter two cities as I grew up in Fort Bend County.

A lot of the new people think they're moving to either and it turns out not to be the case pretty often in terms of the city itself. So many of the communities along the Grand Parkway or Westpark Tollway or FMs 359 or 723 are in those cities' respective zip codes but in someone else's ETJ entirely and in neither's city limits whatsoever.

Richmond hasn't done a lot of annexing to extend it's boundaries, but Sugar Land pretty famously did about 10 years ago and added about 30,000 people by taking in a few older subdivisions that were already fairly well associated with the city. They may do it again in the not too distant future.

Rosenberg has been doing it bit by bit over the past couple of decades in each direction, though the bulk of it has been south and west. The ETJ is pretty extensive, engulfing Beasley and extending to Kendleton's ETJ. The city limits actually wrap around parts of Beasley as well now. What a change.



If you're talking about the metro - this is pretty much it. I'd add further south to Freeport and all the other cities in the Brazosport area. It's about 60k population which isn't bad. More are definitely on the way.

For the northwest point, that's getting to be a bit tricky IMO. Pretty much anything along 290 through Waller County up to Hempstead would work since that's starting to fill-in pretty quickly. Also Magnolia along the Aggieland Expressway... that's within 20 miles of Navasota and 45 miles to the south side of College Station at this point! Feels faster when you drive it, of course.

I'm interested in seeing how long Rosenberg is the southwestern point though. The amount of development that is coming to that part of Fort Bend County and even further southwest toward Kendleton & the San Bernard River/Wharton County line is insane.

The Southwest Freeway is a solid 6 lanes / feeders / HOV all the way from Rosenberg back into the city. It's 6 lanes pretty much uninterrupted just past Rosenberg and back toward Kendleton now.

Even in Wharton County, the 6-lane configuration is being built out in a couple of sections right now, both on the north and south sides of Wharton and southwest toward El Campo.

I kind of ran into the same surprise driving into town on I-45 last year. The area now feels like it STARTS at Huntsville. Sure, there are breaks in development, but with the interstate under construction along the way, it didn't feel like it. It definitely picks up back around New Waverly and Willis though.

So Houston appears to be in a mega sprawl phase like DFW has been in for decades. Hopefully its downtown won't stagnate like Dallas. I was curious why Houston has never sprawled towards to Beamont and the Census does not combine Beaumont into Houston despite the fact that they are both oil towns. Is it because all of the refineries/heavy industry are in that direction and the flat plains in that area are the highest risk for hurricanes? I also noticed that Beaumont is not growing as a small metro for the same reason.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by DCReid

I was curious why Houston has never sprawled towards to Beamont

Because everything east of Downtown Houston (up until recently, at least) smells bad.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

^ The freeway part of I-10 on the West side starts 58 miles from Downtown now.

And coming in on 290, the freeway (and crazy drivers) start at approximately 50 northwest of downtown, just this side of Hempstead.

[Zapatan]

Any recent pics of the 500 footer U/C?

[Double L]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

I wish that were in Houston and not The Woodlands.

There is a historic setting for this redevelopment, it is replacing buildings that were previously there which were torn down, this development would have to be in The Woodlands, that site needs redevelopment, it doesn’t fit any other setting in the Houston area.The Woodlands Town Center can be a quality walkable urban area, the trolleys make it walkable and it has a good retail and restaurant scene in The Woodlands Town Center.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by Double L

There is a historic setting for this redevelopment, it is replacing buildings that were previously there which were torn down, this development would have to be in The Woodlands, that site needs redevelopment, it doesn’t fit any other setting in the Houston area.The Woodlands Town Center can be a quality walkable urban area, the trolleys make it walkable and it has a good retail and restaurant scene in The Woodlands Town Center.

I suppose I wasn’t very clear: I mean the buildings themselves. Especially the oval, multi-tiered building. Not the development.

[Wattleigh]

Knowles-Rowland House, Phase II

A 15-story tower appears to be planned behind St. John's UMC in Midtown. It looks to be the 2nd phase of a redevelopment plan around the church.

The first phase is a three-story building that would replace an existing gym with 31 temporary housing units for the homeless, among other amenities. This was announced last September.

This new tower appears as a city planning commission agenda item for tomorrow's meeting.

Photos c/o hindesky on HAIF

The church in front of the tower site


Site behind the church


COH Proposed Plat Document c/o hindesky on HAIF









Images from the agenda - c/o j.33 on HAIF

[Wattleigh]

JW Marriott Downtown / Battlestein's Redevelopment

Arch-Con's website has been updated to provide a description of the work taking place here as part of the hotel's expansion.

JW Marriott Houston Downtown Expansion
Owner: Southwest Value Partners | Architect: MCS Architects LLC

The JW Marriott Houston Downtown Expansion is an adaptive reuse of the historic, 10-story Battlestein’s Building built in 1950. It is adjacent to the existing JW Marriott Houston Downtown, an adaptive reuse of the historic Samuel F. Carter Building built in 1910. Arch-Con’s scope of work includes a 72,382-square-foot building conversion to add 56 rooms as well as the demolition and renovation of the storefront, entry vestibule, elevators, ballroom and restrooms on the first floor and meeting rooms on the second floor. Designed by MCS Architects LLC, project highlights include ribbon windows and a rooftop penthouse, bar and pool.

Image c/o InTheKnowHouston on HAIF