CHICAGO | General Discussions

[BuildThemTaller]

Originally Posted by RockfordSoxFan

I hate to compare cities. But... Austin may be one sunbelt city that urbanizes just because of its demographics (young tech workforce). Right now though, its still a baby.
Austin 305 sq mi, population ~1,000,000. Metro ~2,200,000. Skyline, modest
Chicago 234 sq mi, population ~2,800,000. Metro ~9,830,000. Skyline, spectacular
Austin also has bizarre zoning to protect capitol views from around the city, so who really knows how its downtown will evolve as the city grows. My guess is probably more like Houston then Chicago.

This is getting way off topic, but I doubt that Austin progresses like Houston. Houston hasn't had much growth of its skyline in decades. The economy of Houston is not diversified enough. There's the oil and gas industry and medical industry. The latter doesn't really build a skyline. Hospitals are large in square footage but not in height.

Austin has the two things a city wants to sustain growth: the State Capital and the flagship public university. Those both bring in dollars. Large law firms demand commercial space. A highly-educated workforce like you get near a major university like UT-Austin demands commercial space.

Austin is not Chicago but I think a better example of a city skyline progression is Minneapolis or Seattle (not a state capital, but close enough + UW). In the next 50 years, Austin will have the most impressive skyline in Texas and one of the better ones in the United States. It would be great if they invested in a public transit system to prepare for that.

[harryc]

Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller

This is getting way off topic, but I doubt that Austin progresses like Houston. Houston hasn't had much growth of its skyline in decades. The economy of Houston is not diversified enough. There's the oil and gas industry and medical industry. The latter doesn't really build a skyline. Hospitals are large in square footage but not in height.

Austin has the two things a city wants to sustain growth: the State Capital and the flagship public university. Those both bring in dollars. Large law firms demand commercial space. A highly-educated workforce like you get near a major university like UT-Austin demands commercial space.

Austin is not Chicago but I think a better example of a city skyline progression is Minneapolis or Seattle (not a state capital, but close enough + UW). In the next 50 years, Austin will have the most impressive skyline in Texas and one of the better ones in the United States. It would be great if they invested in a public transit system to prepare for that.

In Chicago you can have a tower which is littoral(y) defining the shore and never need to worry about more than the occasional rise in the river. No hurricanes, no rising ocean, better bet for the future.

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller

This is getting way off topic, but I doubt that Austin progresses like Houston. Houston hasn't had much growth of its skyline in decades. The economy of Houston is not diversified enough. There's the oil and gas industry and medical industry. The latter doesn't really build a skyline. Hospitals are large in square footage but not in height.

Austin has the two things a city wants to sustain growth: the State Capital and the flagship public university. Those both bring in dollars. Large law firms demand commercial space. A highly-educated workforce like you get near a major university like UT-Austin demands commercial space.

Austin is not Chicago but I think a better example of a city skyline progression is Minneapolis or Seattle (not a state capital, but close enough + UW). In the next 50 years, Austin will have the most impressive skyline in Texas and one of the better ones in the United States. It would be great if they invested in a public transit system to prepare for that.

Austin has a lot going for it. It's basically the only hip spot in a triangle with points at Kansas City, New Orleans and San Diego. There are numberless individuals in Oklahoma, Texas and the greater Southwest who don't want to leave the region they call home, but would like access to tech employment and urbane amenities. In other regions you could consider secondary options like Minneapolis, Providence or Sacramento and still find that, but in Texas, Austin is the only game in town. Considering how much population there is nearby, it's a tremendous advantage.

I've spent a lot of time in Austin and the downtown certainly has room on it's streets for bus rapid transit or streetcars. There are enough four lane, one way streets for two competing bus rapid transit or streetcar systems. But with absolutely nothing constraining sprawl and a Texas DOT that is openly hostile to anything other than new beltways, it would require a sea change for me to imagine enough transit construction that would allow Austin to have a CBD high rise district that would give the city a "skyline". But maybe I'll be surprised.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by RockfordSoxFan

I hate to compare cities. But... Austin may be one sunbelt city that urbanizes just because of its demographics (young tech workforce). Right now though, its still a baby.
Austin 305 sq mi, population ~1,000,000. Metro ~2,200,000. Skyline, modest
Chicago 234 sq mi, population ~2,800,000. Metro ~9,830,000. Skyline, spectacular
Austin also has bizarre zoning to protect capitol views from around the city, so who really knows how its downtown will evolve as the city grows. My guess is probably more like Houston then Chicago.

It will probably grow more like London or LA or Mexico City if population growth is fast enough, albeit with less density than at least London. London has sight-line protections and more than one area with high-rises. Mexico City has a pop density of about 16,000 per sq. mile, almost comparable to San Francisco but scaled up in quantity. LA has a lower density - about half that, so that's a more likely outcome for Austin to aspire to. Considering that contains districts and corridors with significantly higher density, it should be enough to support at least a couple lines of mass transit (BRT or partially-grade-separated lightrail). If Austin developed in a multi-nodal manner, it would probably actually increase the utility of mass transit.

[IrishIllini]

I'm not impressed by Austin. It'll urbanize like any other flagship university town. It isn't growing uniformly outward from the core. It's sprawling most quickly to the north. The south and west are hot spots too.The east end is quite underdeveloped.

Columbus, OH is probably the most similar MSA. Columbus isn't growing as quickly, but the core and university district have made some serious progress in the last 10-15 years. If the city could get some of the expressways choking off downtown torn down, it'd be much nicer than Austin IMO...ignoring the weather

[harryc]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

It is very hard to stop 5 to 10 cars of people driving around just texting what to target next...they can go anywhere and hit quickly. The city simply does not have the resources to cover everywhere. And when they did they just drove to the neighboring suburbs and were and still are doing it there.

exactly what I have observed .

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum

Austin has a lot going for it. It's basically the only hip spot in a triangle with points at Kansas City, New Orleans and San Diego. There are numberless individuals in Oklahoma, Texas and the greater Southwest who don't want to leave the region they call home, but would like access to tech employment and urbane amenities. In other regions you could consider secondary options like Minneapolis, Providence or Sacramento and still find that, but in Texas, Austin is the only game in town. Considering how much population there is nearby, it's a tremendous advantage.

I think you're overestimating the appeal of hipness - certainly the "weirdness" is a draw for Austin, but DFW and Houston have not been hurting with regard to growth. Plenty of people want other things out of a city. I do see maybe some correlation with highrise growth specifically, the people choosing to live in Austin tend to be more cosmopolitan than those in other Texas cities, with familiarity with NYC, Miami, Chicago, or other North American highrise cities and more likely to consider highrise living.

That said, Dallas' Uptown/Victory is no slouch as a highrise residential neighborhood and both Dallas/Houston will see continued demand for office highrises, assuming Covid doesn't kill the office highrise permanently.

I've spent a lot of time in Austin and the downtown certainly has room on it's streets for bus rapid transit or streetcars. There are enough four lane, one way streets for two competing bus rapid transit or streetcar systems. But with absolutely nothing constraining sprawl and a Texas DOT that is openly hostile to anything other than new beltways, it would require a sea change for me to imagine enough transit construction that would allow Austin to have a CBD high rise district that would give the city a "skyline". But maybe I'll be surprised.

Austin's light rail proposal is one of the better ones that I've seen in North America, they seem to have learned from the planning mistakes of Dallas and Houston's systems. If it passes and it gets built as proposed, it will be a strong backbone for regional growth. It's hard to build a dense skyline if every single building has to store and send out a huge fleet of cars every day. It only works in Miami because so many of the condos in those highrises are second homes.

[bnk]

Well summer is over this year. In addition to all of the conventions canceled pretty much anything that makes money on tourism also is dead. Its going to be a very tough financial year. They even canceled the Chicago to Mackinac race. I guess the sailboats could not social distance themselves far enough from each other. Plus there is a strong possibility many looted stores will never reopen. Even the big box stores in blighted areas.




https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...almart-looting

Chicago mayor: Will take 'Herculean effort' to get businesses to come back

Walmart, Target among businesses in city that can't confirm reopening of stores

By Evie Fordham

I've been on calls and text messages with people all day who fought hard to bring economic development to areas of the city, only to see the Walgreens, the CVS, the grocery store, everything vanish in an eye blink," Lightfoot said on a May 31 call with distraught aldermen. "It's going to take a Herculean effort on the part of all of us to convince businesses not to disappear, to come back. We're prepared to fight that fight."


….


"I haven't seen s--t like this before," Lightfoot said on the call. "The number of places all over the South and West sides in particular that have been hit today has just been off the charts. Literally hundreds, if not thousands, of locations. Big stores, small stores, strip malls, many corner places, it is all over the city."….








http://www.chicagotribune.com/entert...oki-story.html



Lollapalooza, Taste of Chicago, other summer festivals canceled by city


By Tracy Swartz


Chicago Tribune |

Jun 09, 2020 | 11:32 AM


Summer is over in Chicago before it even began.



The city announced Tuesday it is canceling special events through Labor Day, including Lollapalooza, Taste of Chicago, the Air and Water Show and the Chicago Jazz Festival to slow the spread of the novel coronavirus. The city had already announced the cancellation of its summer festivals devoted to gospel, blues and house music.

...

[the urban politician]

Yep.

I’ve heard some say that summer is our reward in Chicago for putting up with winter.

Since everything that makes Chicago great has been taken away from us, all we get now is floods, frozen roads, and high taxes.

Well, at least I can go on more bike rides with the kids. I have to tell you, bike rides are especially fun after a few White Claws.

And I’ve been grilling my own steaks. Mmmmmm..... homemade prime New York strip with butter and rosemary baste....

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by bnk

Well summer is over this year. In addition to all of the conventions canceled pretty much anything that makes money on tourism also is dead. Its going to be a very tough financial year. They even canceled the Chicago to Mackinac race. I guess the sailboats could not social distance themselves far enough from each other. Plus there is a strong possibility many looted stores will never reopen. Even the big box stores in blighted areas.




https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...almart-looting

Chicago mayor: Will take 'Herculean effort' to get businesses to come back

Walmart, Target among businesses in city that can't confirm reopening of stores

By Evie Fordham

I've been on calls and text messages with people all day who fought hard to bring economic development to areas of the city, only to see the Walgreens, the CVS, the grocery store, everything vanish in an eye blink," Lightfoot said on a May 31 call with distraught aldermen. "It's going to take a Herculean effort on the part of all of us to convince businesses not to disappear, to come back. We're prepared to fight that fight."


….


"I haven't seen s--t like this before," Lightfoot said on the call. "The number of places all over the South and West sides in particular that have been hit today has just been off the charts. Literally hundreds, if not thousands, of locations. Big stores, small stores, strip malls, many corner places, it is all over the city."….








http://www.chicagotribune.com/entert...oki-story.html



Lollapalooza, Taste of Chicago, other summer festivals canceled by city


By Tracy Swartz


Chicago Tribune |

Jun 09, 2020 | 11:32 AM


Summer is over in Chicago before it even began.



The city announced Tuesday it is canceling special events through Labor Day, including Lollapalooza, Taste of Chicago, the Air and Water Show and the Chicago Jazz Festival to slow the spread of the novel coronavirus. The city had already announced the cancellation of its summer festivals devoted to gospel, blues and house music.

...

I wish you could please understand that this is not specific/unique to Chicago alone, and that the entire country is struggling and will for some time before things get back to 'normal.' Chicago is not dying, people will not leave en masse, and things will stabilize. Every single city in the country is really struggling in a variety of ways that may be unique to that city.

I understand how it is to have a visceral reaction to how Covid and recent protests have paralyzed our way of life and the fear that things won't improve, especially when we all want nothing more than Chicago to grow and thrive as best it can. One day at a time, and just...chill. Also, I'd recommend quoting a more reputable business news source for a better, balanced perspective, next time. Fox Business and Fox 'News' in general have had a massive hatred of Chicago for over a decade, and are hardly the most reliable news source, especially for hyper local news.

For me, if Lightfoot and the Guv were smart, now is the time to privatize police and fire dept pensions, at least partially if not fully.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by bnk

They even canceled the Chicago to Mackinac race. I guess the sailboats could not social distance themselves far enough from each other.

it's not about the boats, it's about the people on the boats. a group of people stuck in tight quarters on a small sailboat for several days is the perfect way to spread an infectious disease.

additionally, have you ever been up on mackinac island when the race ends? thousands of 40-80 year old men drink like they're 20 again and fill main street with their drunken revelry. it would be impossible to have that many black-out drunk people confined in a small area safely practicing social distancing.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by sentinel

I wish you could please understand that this is not specific/unique to Chicago alone, and that the entire country is struggling and will for some time before things get back to 'normal.' Chicago is not dying, people will not leave en masse, and things will stabilize. Every single city in the country is really struggling in a variety of ways that may be unique to that city.

I understand how it is to have a visceral reaction to how Covid and recent protests have paralyzed our way of life and the fear that things won't improve, especially when we all want nothing more than Chicago to grow and thrive as best it can. One day at a time, and just...chill. Also, I'd recommend quoting a more reputable business news source for a better, balanced perspective, next time. Fox Business and Fox 'News' in general have had a massive hatred of Chicago for over a decade, and are hardly the most reliable news source, especially for hyper local news.

For me, if Lightfoot and the Guv were smart, now is the time to privatize police and fire dept pensions, at least partially if not fully.

Yeah and Illinois and Chicago squashed this outbreak pretty good. Historically the places that act the most decisively to quash a pandemic recover the soonest and strongest. We have been reporting less than 1000 cases a day for a week now and seeing numbers we haven't seen since March when we were doing a tiny fraction of the number of tests we are now.

Today we reported only 661 cases which is the lowest since 3/30 when we only did 2,600 tests. We do over 20k a day now very consistantly. There were only 139 positives in the city of Chicago reported today.

Testing is now open to basically anyone who wants it and has left their house in the last two weeks. My wife and I just got tested for Covid and Covid Antibodies yesterday because we are taking the baby to Des Moines to meet my in laws who are both immunocompromised. Thanks to the availibility of test (which is covered by all insurance) we can go visit family without any concern of transmitting the disease. That's how you eliminate a pandemic.

[sukwoo]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Testing is now open to basically anyone who wants it and has left their house in the last two weeks. My wife and I just got tested for Covid and Covid Antibodies yesterday because we are taking the baby to Des Moines to meet my in laws who are both immunocompromised. Thanks to the availibility of test (which is covered by all insurance) we can go visit family without any concern of transmitting the disease. That's how you eliminate a pandemic.

Just remember, that a negative PCR test today, just means you were likely negative for infection 3-5 days ago. The sensitivity for the nasal-swab tests in the first few days is very low (especially if you are asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic). Likewise a negative antibody test means you were likely not infected 2 weeks ago. Neither of these tests will detect an infection that was contracted yesterday.

source: I run a hospital laboratory.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by sukwoo

Just remember, that a negative PCR test today, just means you were likely negative for infection 3-5 days ago. The sensitivity for the nasal-swab tests in the first few days is very low (especially if you are asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic). Likewise a negative antibody test means you were likely not infected 2 weeks ago. Neither of these tests will detect an infection that was contracted yesterday.

source: I run a hospital laboratory.

All until mid March I literally saw hundreds of sick people, many who were feverish, coughing on me, short of breath, etc. many were Flu negative. In March I myself had a strange illness and was Flu negative.

Add to that an international trip to Cancun in February, and I was SURE that I would be Covid IgG positive.

When that test was made available I had a colleague order it and went down to the lab and got it done ASAP. Result? Negative

I couldn’t believe it.

[sentinel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/com...ease_in_covid/



Hoping this holds, but looks like Illinois did it right *fingers-crossed*

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by bhawk66

Those roof elements are so inane and a waste. Just like that super lame flying waste of material that was added to the residential building west edge of the Kennedy.

Just be glad it’s moving forward because the boom looks very much to be over.

Massive job losses are bringing rents way down, office demand just plummeted, hotels are at about 10% of capacity, you get the idea.

I do hope that this is temporary. But other than perhaps luxury condos, we’re going to see very few construction starts over the next few quarters, I think

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by sukwoo

Just remember, that a negative PCR test today, just means you were likely negative for infection 3-5 days ago. The sensitivity for the nasal-swab tests in the first few days is very low (especially if you are asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic). Likewise a negative antibody test means you were likely not infected 2 weeks ago. Neither of these tests will detect an infection that was contracted yesterday.

source: I run a hospital laboratory.

Yes, we understood that, my Mom runs a hospital lab in Wisconsin. We quarantined completely starting Thursday and then didn't get tested until Tuesday.

Negative Covid and negative antibodies for both of us.

[maru2501]

agree.. lucky this much stuff is going up as it cycles out. Especially One Chicago


some smaller west loop items may still go

[HomrQT]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Just be glad it’s moving forward because the boom looks very much to be over.

Massive job losses are bringing rents way down, office demand just plummeted, hotels are at about 10% of capacity, you get the idea.

I do hope that this is temporary. But other than perhaps luxury condos, we’re going to see very few construction starts over the next few quarters, I think

I think with so many people working from home for months it will have a lasting impact that will cause office demand to stay down for a long, long time - even after all restrictions are lifted. Hopefully a lot of these buildings pivot and convert to residential or hotel.

[the urban politician]

^ It could be worse than that. As soon as people realize that companies can be effective with a mostly at-home workforce, you may see people working remotely from places far away. I’m talking low cost locales not just outside of Chicago, but even out of State.

As soon as the pandemic seems to be under control, we need a local leadership that will vigorously defend the local economy. We will need to make the case for Chicago. Why it’s so valuable. Why the core is still the place to work and thrive. I’m not sure if that mentality is there with some of the people in charge.

But seeing any substantial highrise development for a long time—the whole reason most of us even gravitated to this forum—depends on it.