How Vancouver's Waterfront Became so Boring

[Nite]

• Video Link

[destroycreate]

I think this is more cultural than anything - Vancouver is apparently "no fun" city. Having been there for Pride etc., I have to agree they like to clamp down on people have a good time lol.

[OhioGuy]

I think he's right in that, "the best use of public space is a very nuanced issue."

As someone who has done a fair amount of training runs for marathons, I appreciated the mostly open lakefront path in Chicago where I didn't have to dodge among people milling about at cafes & restaurants. I loved have such a long basically uninterrupted path for exercise like that. When I was in Vancouver last September I couldn't help but imagine how nice that seawall would be for training runs too. I wouldn't try running (or biking) along the main branch of the Chicago River unless it was early morning because there are active uses with people standing around at cafes and restaurants. I like that this particular stretch of the waterfront has those options available, but I also appreciate having much of the lakefront open for exercising without many instances where people might spill out from adjacent restaurants, bars, and cafes into and block the trailway.

[homebucket]

When visiting certain quieter parts of Golden Gate Park or Lands End or the Presidio or the Embarcadero, I've never really thought to myself, gee this is boring. I kinda like having some quiet places within the City to relax and enjoy the quiet and reflect on the sounds of nature.

Not everything needs to be hustle and bustle and chaotic.

[mhays]

A basic path along the water is one thing. A lack of businesses even across the street from the park is another. Once I walked around most of the Downtown Peninsula and didn't see many places to eat at all. That was mostly inland.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by homebucket

When visiting certain quieter parts of Golden Gate Park or Lands End or the Presidio or the Embarcadero, I've never really thought to myself, gee this is boring. I kinda like having some quiet places within the City to relax and enjoy the quiet and reflect on the sounds of nature.

Not everything needs to be hustle and bustle and chaotic.

Sure, but that's not what's being discussed here. No one was arguing that Stanley Park's seawall should be developed. The criticism is that there's a singular focus on park/walking path-abutting-high end residential as the only form of acceptable waterfront development in built-up areas; with a lack of diverse uses along most of it. On a waterfront as extensive as Vancouver's, there's certainly room for a bit of everything.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Sure, but that's not what's being discussed here. No one was arguing that Stanley Park's seawall should be developed. The criticism is that there's a singular focus on park/walking path-abutting-high end residential as the only form of acceptable waterfront development in built-up areas; with a lack of diverse uses along most of it. On a waterfront as extensive as Vancouver's, there's certainly room for a bit of everything.

Probably poor presentation on the Youtuber's part then, as he highlighted the entire park and then went off on a tangent to discuss Central Park. Not just the parts abutting residential areas. If he focused solely on that aspect then it would be much easier to follow. Anyway, that sounds more like a NIMBY problem more than anything else.

[MonkeyRonin]

Idk, his premise seemed pretty clear and easy to follow to me.

[hipster duck]

I personally think that the Seawall is one of Vancouver's greatest assets and maybe my favourite pubic space in the country, but it could still be improved and there are definitely parts that could be more lively. I never actually thought of that, and I have to thank the YouTuber for planting that seed in my head.

The Seawall is so long that it's been a work in progress for over 40 years. There's still bits and pieces that travel past abandoned land with chain link fences. I'd like to see some more activation, but it's a tough balancing act. The Seawall also serves as a major bike corridor since it's one of the few places in the city where you can traverse most of the city east-to-west without having to go up hills. Also, a lot of "hangout" culture in Vancouver in the summer is based on moving from one area to another across distances that are too far to walk but perfect for a stress-free, flat bike ride unimpeded by cars. Like, you'll start off in Kits Beach and then go to Olympic Village and then end off in the West End, and you'll use your bike to travel along the Seawall to do this.

[WhipperSnapper]

Aren't most waterfronts degrees of boring?

It's always on the edge of civilization unlike riverfronts that can bisect civilization.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I personally think that the Seawall is one of Vancouver's greatest assets and maybe my favourite pubic space in the country, but it could still be improved and there are definitely parts that could be more lively. I never actually thought of that, and I have to thank the YouTuber for planting that seed in my head.

The Seawall goes all the way down to Wreck Beach? I thought it ended at Kitsilano.

[hipster duck]

^LOL. That was well played!

[TWAK]

Lol dust as an excuse, reminds me of California NIMBYs screaming about shadows .

[edale]

I tapped out when I saw him wearing the purple yoga pants with a blurred mark over the crotch. Please be serious. wtf was that?

It's been years since I've been to Vancouver, but I do remember walking along the waterfront for a considerable length of time. I rented a bike in stanley park and biked around the whole perimeter of the park. I found it pretty lovely.

He did bring up a somewhat interesting point in the first 3 mins of the video that I did watch. He compares Halifax's bustling gathering space of a waterfront with Vancouver's more park and passive recreation focus, and said that in Halifax, the waterfront really feels like the place where the community comes together. Is there such a space in Vancouver? Surely there is-- almost all cities have civic gathering spaces. It's probably just not on the waterfront.

IMO, there's no 'best' way to design a waterfront. A waterfront can have many different purposes. I guess this video is arguing that too much of Vancouver's is dedicated to one type of use/activity, but that seems like more of a problem of the adjacent land uses rather than with the waterfront park land itself.

[Marshal]

Vancouver's waterfront is not boring for many reasons. It is also boring for a number of others. I love it at any time of the day or year. That it is described as boring misses the point in my opinion. Its great as is. It is also more activated than many give it credit (restaurants, pubs, attractions). It just needs more. The city continues to evolve and I think after Covid really subsides, the waterfront will continue to add new dimensions. Hopefully ASAP.

[One of my most favourite seawall experiences was long ago walking along passing beneath Lion's Gate Bridge at about 3 in the dark morning. Lost in thought, barely registering the forest, just listening to the quiet lapping of the ocean against the stonework, I became away of a dull humming. I felt it before i saw it. A freighter was almost silently drifting right past me. A giant black presence just slipping out of the narrows heading to the open sea. Spiritual. Industrial.]

[someone123]

He used to do similar PLANifax videos.

It's pretty complicated comparing Vancouver and Halifax here as there are a lot of similar parts in both cities that are shuffled around differently. For example that "step" area is more like the Olympic Village part, Vancouver's seawall is more like Point Pleasant and the Northwest Arm seawall, and Granville Island is the analog of the seaport area of Halifax (around Pier 21 and Garrison). Then in Halifax there is an older fine-grained section that doesn't really have an analog in Vancouver as it is a newer city that had relatively few smaller finger wharves and there is no real Gastown waterfront. The section around the Macdonald bridge and through the naval base feels a lot like the mostly inaccessible part around Vancouver's port facilities.

I would say Granville Island is better than the seaport and Vancouver's recreational seawall is better than the Halifax equivalent, but the fine-grained central parts of Halifax's waterfront don't really equate to anything similar in Vancouver and are the best part. And there is something to the way some of these developments have been built in Halifax that is missing in Vancouver. Halifax's waterfront has/had some gaps and issues but they're largely being fixed whereas the areas that were established with a sort of urban lite recreational and residential character in Vancouver will likely be harder to change.

Something else you might point out is that Vancouver did more with less during the modern planning era, while Halifax inherited some amazing heritage buildings and tore most of them down in the 70's. Halifax is the way it is because it has a basically 18th century scale downtown and there were a lot of small industrial buildings accessible to pedestrians (no railways in those days) that were built right up against commercial buildings.

[Smuttynose1]

I do think part of the point of this video is to challenge the popular ethos that waterfronts should be full of parks and public places for the public to enjoy and free of the forces of 'privatization' like restaurants, shops, and apartment/condo towers. Generally speaking, this line of thinking has had positive effects over the last 50-ish years. Cities with limited public waterfront access have made major strides to open waterfront land to public access. Industrial spaces have been cleaned up and opened up for public access. Many new parks have been built.

But can we take it too far? Everybody points to Chicago as a model of good waterfront planning. Chicago's 'front yard', the lakefront, is full of parks and public spaces and is the result of a mix of long-term planning, lawsuits, and some unique historical events. I certainly like the lakefront, but I feel a bit isolated from the city when I visit (I suppose that's part of the point) and it can be devoid of pedestrian activity in parts. On the other hand, the Chicago Riverwalk benefitted from much less advance planning (it didn't come online until after 2000), and includes a lot less public space. The walkway bumps up against restaurants and embankments and space is at a premium. Admittedly, it's not very peaceful, but it is engaging and lively. The point is that both have their benefits; a good waterfront, imho, should include aspects of both -- expansive public areas where you can find some peace and quiet and urban landscapes that are hopping with activity and include some private uses.

Chicago Lakefront


Chicago Riverfront

[Architype]

Originally Posted by homebucket

The Seawall goes all the way down to Wreck Beach? I thought it ended at Kitsilano.

It does end at Kits, but you can continue the walk along the beaches and trails to reach Wreck Beach.

The seawall is regarded as park space, to commercialize it would be like commercializing Central Park, or your favorite park wherever you live. But it is a bit boring, walking there can give the same sensation of walking through an airport terminal, you need to keep moving along. Vancouver's seawall, unlike most urban waterfronts, skirts mainly residential areas or actual parks, which is partly why it takes on the form of a park instead of a vibrant commercial strip. So, bring a lunch because the restaurants are far apart, or a short jog away to an actual commercial street.

There was a pier at English Bay a century ago which was destroyed by neglect and never rebuilt. Any time restoring it was brought up it's been voted down.

Read about the pier here, I agree it could add some interest.


https://604now.com/english-bay-pier-vancouver-history/