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  #41  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 8:04 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I mean, looking at remote work from an employer perspective for a second (hard to do for me, since I work for a union) my understanding is there's absolutely been a major drop in productivity as a result of a shift to working from home. To some degree this is probably parents who have to somehow balance working full time with online schooling. To some degree it's probably just that working from home has more general distractions. But employers have absolutely lost revenue from the shift to remote work.
"employers have absolutely lost revenue"...can you back up that statement with facts and studies? because there are just as many studies that show companies benefitting greatly from the move to WFH...ultimately less resources spent on office space (which they are now beginning to divest or sublease), less time lost to commuting, and employees who increasingly find themselves without clear boundaries, meaning they are working earlier and later as emails and IMs continue to come in. if it wasnt beneficial to Capital, than business owners wouldnt be pushing forward with the trend towards remote.

honestly it feels premature to make any declarative statement, as this trend only began a year ago, and given stocks are at all time highs 12 months later, i dont think any of the big corporations have lost anything at all. at least if theyre not in the hospitality/travel sector. those that are suffering likely were not progressive companies when it came to remote work in the first place. wheras those thriving already had things like adequate VPN, robust Sharepoint file management, Microsoft Teams integrations, etc that gave them a competitive advantage and allowed them to be more nimble when this all hit

even taking the in-office vs remote variable out of the equation, employee productivity is at all time highs. while aforementioned stocks have soared as a result, employee wages have remained stagnant since the 70s. frankly, employees have done more than their part and gotten no down-funnel rewards for their contributions.




Last edited by Via Chicago; Mar 31, 2021 at 10:05 PM.
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  #42  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 8:30 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
. I have three classes right now and all three have a studio aspect where we are working on "equity" plans. So no time to care about rich people downtown!

However, these silly kids don't realize that at least in Chicago, two wards in the downtown area produce 40% of property tax revenue and that with a plummeting downtown workforce, our CTA and METRA will collapse in the long term.
Illinois doesn't have a municipal earnings tax but some states do (in Ohio, most cities charge 2-2.5%, NYC is like 3.6%, and Philly is 4% - going by memory) and there are efforts by high-paid employees to be reclassified as "remote" in their outlying lower-tax municipalities or zero-tax unincorporated exurbs. We'll soon see legal gymnastics whereby these workers claim to be remote but will continue to work regularly if not nearly all of the time downtown.

So somebody earning $200k who works in downtown Cleveland or Columbus but who lives in an unincorporated suburban area could save $5,000/yr in municipal earnings tax by claiming to work out of a home office.
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  #43  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 8:36 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
Illinois doesn't have a municipal earnings tax but some states do (in Ohio, most cities charge 2-2.5%, NYC is like 3.6%, and Philly is 4% - going by memory) and there are efforts by high-paid employees to be reclassified as "remote" in their outlying lower-tax municipalities or zero-tax unincorporated exurbs. We'll soon see legal gymnastics whereby these workers claim to be remote but will continue to work regularly if not nearly all of the time downtown.

So somebody earning $200k who works in downtown Cleveland or Columbus but who lives in an unincorporated suburban area could save $5,000/yr in municipal earnings tax by claiming to work out of a home office.
NYC is based on residency. You do not pay income tax to the city if you do not live in the 5 boroughs, even if you work in Manhattan. You do pay it if you reside in the boroughs, regardless of remote status.

Detroit has an income tax on both commuters and residents. The tax on residents is 2.4% and 1.2% on commuters.
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  #44  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 8:38 PM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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Originally Posted by bossabreezes View Post
At this point, COVID isn't really my main worry about being in the city. Wear a mask and you're fine.

The huge uptick in violence though, this is something a mask can't solve. It is countrywide and it can't be solely blamed on COVID, its cultural. I've said it a bunch of times, but people will absolutely abandon cities if they become too risky to be in, it happened before and will happen again. Just a matter of timing.
Yup. This is another blind spot for many due to political reasons.

People have choices, and remote work amplifies those choices. I live in a "safe" area of the city and the amount of crime that happens within 5 blocks of my house is insane.
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  #45  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
Of course Manhattan and other downtowns will never be the same. Things are always changing. You just have to learn to adapt.

In SF, Facebook is going to reopen at 10% in May, then 50% by September, as long as everything goes well. There's a subset that will be allowed to work remotely permanently, and they can even relocate, but their compensation will be adjusted accordingly. Wells Fargo isn't going to reopen until September as well. Peak population during work hours may eventually get 90%(?) perhaps back to the original baseline, but for the time being, this is the new normal. Office space will likely consolidate like Salesforce is doing, and while others may eventually come in to take those spaces, the pandora's box of remote work has now been opened, and as a result, CBDs, and even suburban offices, are likely to be less busy, even if vacancy is at baseline.

I'm not buying that Manhattan is unique in this regard, as they themselves, have been a big benefactor of the tech boom, and remote work culture.



https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...h-office-space
The bolded scares me. Not only can offices downsize their footprint, but save tons of money if people decide to leave our expensive cities.
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  #46  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 8:43 PM
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If companies do decide to push the "work from home" thing it's going to be by their own choosing, not their employees or the general public. Since when has the general public had power over corporations to sway them to do anything?

Companies are enjoying not having to worry with the logistics and liabilities of office workers every day in one place and everything that comes with. For tech workers and cities that are tech heavy, they've already known for a generation or more about the benefits of working from home. Productivity is higher and traffic is lower. Those are just the two benefits right off the bat. I think one of the reasons Austin has escaped the higher Covid numbers that the other Texas cities had was that we're largely a work from home city already, though, some have chosen to make that into a political issue, but it's more of a consequence of our workforce structure and biggest industry.

Still, there is a huge amount of other office workers who cannot work from home, nevermind all of the other industries that aren't office related, and they will revert back. This doom and gloom on the subject is no less worthy of being mocked than the ones who were and still are doom and gloom on the virus itself and all of the consequences it will effect whether we resist them or not.
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  #47  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
NYC is based on residency. You do not pay income tax to the city if you do not live in the 5 boroughs, even if you work in Manhattan. You do pay it if you reside in the boroughs, regardless of remote status.

Detroit has an income tax on both commuters and residents. The tax on residents is 2.4% and 1.2% on commuters.
Wow I didn't know this; I didn't know some places in the US charged income tax for commuters and municipal resident income tax. None of this exists in California, yet people complain about our state income tax. Mensos.
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  #48  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 9:51 PM
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Chicago doesn't have a city income tax.

But the way that the big commercial properties are languishing, I can't help but wonder if the city will begin to rethink that. The city has always relied on huge amounts of $$ in property taxes up until now
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  #49  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Chicago doesn't have a city income tax.

But the way that the big commercial properties are languishing, I can't help but wonder if the city will begin to rethink that. The city has always relied on huge amounts of $$ in property taxes up until now
that would likely require a change to Illinois state law.
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  #50  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
that would likely require a change to Illinois state law.
Bring it on!

At this time I'd rather we institute a Chicago income tax in order to curtail the property taxes in Chicago that just keep spiraling out of control, especially since most of the commercial downtown will probably never recover in our lifetimes.

Plus I can't wait to see the looks on the faces of the "Lockdowns FOREVER" Zoomocracy when they realize that the excessive fear and gloom that they espoused just landed them a new tax
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  #51  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2021, 10:27 PM
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As long as this opens up cheap spaces and rent in Manhattan in the near future, I’m down for this.
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  #52  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 3:00 AM
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Google is accelerating partial reopening of offices and putting limits on future of remote work
PUBLISHED WED, MAR 31 2021

Google, one of the first major U.S. companies to send employees home last year because of the coronavirus, is setting new remote work guidelines as it speeds up plans to get staffers back to the office.

As millions more Americans get vaccinated by the day, Google is accelerating reopening plans in some parts of the U.S. on a volunteer basis ahead of the Sept. 1 return deadline, according to internal documents viewed by CNBC. Offices will reopen in a limited capacity in April based on vaccine availability and a downward trend in Covid-19 cases.

“It’s now been a year since many of us have been working from home, and the thought of returning to the office might inspire different emotions,” wrote Fiona Cicconi, Google’s new head of people operations, in a companywide email on Wednesday. Cicconi advised employees to get the Covid-19 vaccine but said it’s not mandatory.

If employees want to work remotely after Sept. 1, they’re required to apply for a maximum of 14 days remote per year, according to a separate note marked “Need to know.” They can apply for up to 12 months in “the most exceptional circumstances.” The company could, however, call employees back to their assigned office at any point, the note said.

Google is preparing for a broad reopening in September, when employees will be expected to show up in person three days a week. The company is taking a different approach from industry peers such as Facebook and Twitter, which vowed to allow most remote work indefinitely.

...

CNBC first reported in December that Google axed the idea of remote work and that it expects workers to “live within commuting distance” of offices.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/goog...mote-work.html
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  #53  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 3:22 AM
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Based on what I know about Google culture (from the countless friends I have from undergrad who work, have worked, or will soon be working there), that's not surprising at all. Everything they do is about keeping employees in the office longer .
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  #54  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 3:40 AM
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^Their offices in Austin are like a playhouse for adults.

https://austin.curbed.com/2017/9/21/...hotos-downtown
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  #55  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 3:46 AM
homebucket homebucket is online now
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Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas View Post
^Their offices in Austin are like a playhouse for adults.

https://austin.curbed.com/2017/9/21/...hotos-downtown
That does kinda remind me of one of those children's discovery museums where there's a lot of colorful and tactile, sensory objects to tinker with.
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  #56  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 3:48 AM
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Maybe I'll try to interview at Google just so I can get a view from their roofdeck:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8869...!7i8704!8i4352
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  #57  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 4:09 AM
homebucket homebucket is online now
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Maybe I'll try to interview at Google just so I can get a view from their roofdeck:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8869...!7i8704!8i4352
Pretty cool how they have a CTA car up there.
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  #58  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 6:28 AM
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This could be an enormous blessing in disguise... in fact this might actually reverse suburbanization:


First of all, rents in the cities will drop as businesses cut half or more of their space requirements.

Secondly, many companies with large numbers of employees have historically relegated themselves to the suburbs under the following two assumptions:

-cheap land means you can build corporate campuses that are big enough for your entire workforce
-closer proximity to where your workforce lives

Most companies that moved to the suburbs did so from the 70s to the 90s, so an enormous number of suburban corporate campuses in this country are between 30-50 years old. If half your workforce now doesnt need to come into the office, why not just abandon your shitty aging office park and move into a smaller, newer office downtown.. especially if downtown rents are at an all time low!?? If people only have to commute to work 3 times a week, then they wont care as much if said commute is a bit longer.. not to mention the fact that the view from the new office is no longer a strip mall or a parking lot.. and you can now get approximately 37 different kinds of food on your lunch breaks

Also, if half the city's workforce is no longer actually in the city on any given day, then the trains and bridges wont be as clogged, so the train commutes will be more pleasant and the drives quicker... Further incentive for the small downtown office.
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Last edited by jbermingham123; Apr 1, 2021 at 6:40 AM.
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  #59  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 11:09 AM
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There’s already talk of converting a lot of unused office space in Manhattan into affordable housing. That could be a model for expensive cities post-pandemic.
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  #60  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 11:13 AM
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working from home generally sucks, its alienating and unproductive and distracting. You lose the learning by osmosis and random interactions. Maybe for some tech dudes who want to turn somewhere in Idaho into Galt's Gulch it might work. but for standard office jobs its not ideal.
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