Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[esquire]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Ya Ottawa needs a new arena their current one is one of the crappiest in the league in a terrible location.

Is there anything actually wrong with the building itself? It looks pretty good to me. I thought the only real issue was location.

[TorontoDrew]

To me it looks like a Big Box Theatre in the middle of a massive parking lot.

source: https://www.leisureopportunities.co.uk

[esquire]

^ But it has all the boxes, club seats, etc. that a team needs to be profitable.

[TorontoDrew]

Doesn't make it a great arena though. There must be a reason why they want a new one in a better location.

[ericmacm]

I went to a Sens game recently and the location is honestly the worst part of it. Not much else is wrong with the arena but the crappy location is a big issue. I can see why they can't fill the arena. There is absolutely nothing in Kanata nearby. Nowhere to have dinner, stop for drinks, etc. It's all car dealerships and big box stores, a total wasteland.

There absolutely needs to be an arena in LeBreton. LRT access and local amenities will change everything. Glad that an arena still remains part of the discussion.

[Acajack]

It's the not the "bomb" in terms of what it looks but if the Sens' arena was somewhere in central Ottawa (LeBreton, Lansdowne, etc.) there would be zero talk of the team needing a new home.

Around half of the NHL arenas are about the same age as CTC including some that are considered among the "best" in the league.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Doesn't make it a great arena though. There must be a reason why they want a new one in a better location.

I think you just solved the mystery

[esquire]

Although it is funny how the fans in Ottawa seemed perfectly content with the CTC's location until one day they suddenly weren't, and then attendance never recovered.

[Rollerstud98]

I don’t know, I seem to recall hearing in high school 20 years ago that it was in a poor location. But the team was a good team for a lot of years makes people a little more forgiving on bad location. Hard to head out to terrible location for a team that will lose more games than win.

[TorontoDrew]

Good thing the Leafs are located right down down then!

Self burn as a fan lol.

[Rollerstud98]

Same with the Flames! When they were looking to build the saddle dome there was a group that wanted to build the arena in airdrie. Calgary would most certainly have lost the Flames if that had been done. Something to be said about being able to take easy transit pretty much right to the arena. Would be nice if they could integrate the station in to the new one here but not likely.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by esquire

Although it is funny how the fans in Ottawa seemed perfectly content with the CTC's location until one day they suddenly weren't, and then attendance never recovered.

They have always struggled with the location, It has been a wsrt for the team since they moved out there.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

I don’t know, I seem to recall hearing in high school 20 years ago that it was in a poor location. But the team was a good team for a lot of years makes people a little more forgiving on bad location. Hard to head out to terrible location for a team that will lose more games than win.

Yeah, fair enough. We went through a similar thing in Winnipeg with IG Field. If the team is doing well and there's a reason to go, people will put up with the inconvenience of getting there. But the minute there's a problem (slumping team, crappy weather), the fans stay away even though the facility itself is great.

[J.OT13]

As others have echoed, the current building itself is fine. Not fantastic, but it serves its purpose just fine. The issue is the location: in the far west end, so it can take an hour+ to get in and out (mostly due to traffic) if you come from the east end or Gatineau. The City provides bus service on event days, but it's pretty crappy (again from an east end perspective (Orléans), we literally have 2 buses that go to the arena on event days). There are no restaurants or any other sort of entertainment options within walking distance, so you're going there for the game, and then leaving. Nothing motivating you to go early or leave later, so you'll be stuck in traffic. Bus option when leaving? Better get you ass to the bus loop within 30 minutes, otherwise you'll be stranded. Driving? You might have to walk up to 400 meters in a giant, windswept parking lot at -40 windchill.

So the building is fine, even after 23 years. A new arena at LeBreton Flats is purely for the location, but that's big in this context. It means not having to walk outside for more than 300 meters to the nearest rapid transit station. It means transit service from 2, possibly 3 rapid transit lines (Confederation, Trillium and possible Hull-Aylmer line). It means a train coming by every 3 minutes. Don't want to be stuck in traffic before or after the game? You have multiple entertainment districts within walking distance (LeBreton, Zibi, Hull) or a few subway stops away (Little Italy, Elgin, ByWard Market). Then you have the 140,000+ (more once LeBreton is built up) office workers within 2 kilometers of the arena, most (if not all) with easy rapid transit access.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, fair enough. We went through a similar thing in Winnipeg with IG Field. If the team is doing well and there's a reason to go, people will put up with the inconvenience of getting there. But the minute there's a problem (slumping team, crappy weather), the fans stay away even though the facility itself is great.

It should be better next year for the Bombers and IG field as the new rapid transit line to the stadium opens this april after a very very long planning and construction period.

[Acajack]

For various reasons I was reasonably close to the issue when the Palladium/Corel Centre/Scotiabank Place/Canadian Tire Centre was being planned, when it was built and after it opened.

There were lots of concerns and even complaints about the location before it even opened.

A common refrain even back then was "why didn't they put it at LeBreton Flats?"

Of course, for a good while all of that was dulled by the novelty of the thing, plus a competitive, entertaining hockey team also helps.

Now the novelty has mostly worn off and the hockey team isn't raising passions much.

Concerts and other events at the CTC are still well-attended AFAIK.

[thurmas]

I don't know the metro Ottawa area well at all but would it be cheaper to build a rapid transit line either brt or lrt to Kanata?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by thurmas

I don't know the metro Ottawa area well at all but would it be cheaper to build a rapid transit line either brt or lrt to Kanata?

That Palladium Station there is where the current Sens' arena is located.

https://forum.skyscraperpage.com/sho...1&postcount=10

This is still in the infancy of the planning stages, and may never even get built.

Several stages of Ottawa LRT expansion will happen before they get to this one - if ever.

Also, it could even end up being BRT.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by esquire

Although it is funny how the fans in Ottawa seemed perfectly content with the CTC's location until one day they suddenly weren't, and then attendance never recovered.

It wasn't quite overnight.

• It started in 2013 when the team let Alfredsson slip away because they weren't willing to pay him what he was worth after years of "Home Town Discounts".
• Then you had the Phoenix Pay System in 2015 screwing public servants left and right, thus reducing people's sense financial security (and severely affecting others').
• Around 2015, the team placed its bid to redevelop LeBreton Flats, the owner stressing that the current location was terrible and that a move downtown was essential to the survival of the team.
• I January 2017, he fired the well loved President of the organization who was one of the team founders. He then hired Tom Anselmi who went on to double parking rates and remove seats from the arena. Tom quit for unknown reasons in January 2018. Some of his dumb ideas were reversed the following NHL season.
• Then you had playoff games not sold out in 2016-2017, but still very well attended, and the owner bashing fans for it.
• In December 2017, during the Alumni Game on Parliament Hill, the day before the NHL Classic at Lansdowne, the owner threatened to move the team if attendance didn't go up. Again, attendance wasn't that bad at this point.
• Just before the start of the 2018-2019 season, they traded our Captain, arguably the best defencemen in the league at the time, because they were unwilling to make him a fair offer.
• In December 2018, the owner had a temper tantrum and killed the LeBreton deal.
• In February 2019, they traded every single all-star player left on the team. That same month, the attempts to save the LeBreton deal collapse, again because of the owner.

And this isn't everything. We've had a lot of drama coming out of the locker room and the front office. The owner is involved in multiple litigation, including gambling debts and the nearly $2 billion lawsuits surrounding the LeBreton deal that fell apart. The owner denies bashing fans and threatening to move despite having him one video. The owner is darn right Trumpian.

The issues the Sens are having around attendance is partly due to the terrible location, but mostly a protest against the mentally unstable owner. We just need a new owner who respects the fans, the players and his staff, first and foremost. Then, we could benefit from a new arena.

Ottawa is a good market. We support our team. We can see that when looking at the attendance numbers during the first 23 seasons (note: October 1992 to January 1996, we played in the 10,000 seat Civic Centre). We can start seeing the drop when Alfie was traded before the 2013-2014 season, followed by a free-fall starting in 2016-2017.

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=7328

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

[*]Then you had the Phoenix Pay System in 2015 screwing public servants left and right, thus reducing people's sense financial security (and severely affecting others').

Question for you, since you seem pretty knowledgeable about Ottawa. The Senators drop in attendance occurred at the same time as the Redblacks' return to the city (as well as the creation of the Fury). Do you think there's some correlation there? I imagine with people having less money to spend on sports there have to be at least a few people who consider the bang-for-their-buck to be better at other sports events than Sens hockey.