The Climate Change Discussion Thread

[biguc]

18 tonnes per capita is really high. That transportation share looks really high too. Time to put the brakes on sprawl.

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by biguc

Time to put the brakes on sprawl.

How?

[biguc]

Upzone, stop issuing permits for sprawl, but tax dollars from densification into transit instead of roads. Behold: a virtuous cycle.

[Truenorth00]

Union representing energy workers backs stronger emissions cuts — as long as there's a transition plan

A union representing oil and gas workers says they don't object to Canada's latest emissions targets — in fact, they think the country could aim for even more ambitious ones. But only if there's a plan for a "just transition" that won't leave workers behind.

Unifor was among the many groups with eyes on Ottawa as Canada announced new climate targets at U.S. President Joe Biden's climate summit last week. The new targets that emerged would see Canada reduce greenhouse gas emissions 40 to 45 per cent below 2005 levels by 2030.

...

Indeed, as a large oil and gas producer, the lives of thousands of Canadians are wrapped up in the industry. An Environmental Defence report estimates there were 170,000 workers in the country's fossil fuel sectors in 2019. Between 2014 to 2019, employment in those sectors dropped by 33,000 positions, or 17 per cent.

A further estimated 17,500 positions have been lost since the onset of the pandemic and associated economic downturn in 2020, according to the same report.

One recent bank report also predicted up to 75 per cent of those working in oil and gas — up to 450,000 people — could be displaced by 2050.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/clim...ergy-1.6000224

[Truenorth00]

I would add 2 years. But this is the trend.

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by biguc

Upzone, stop issuing permits for sprawl, but tax dollars from densification into transit instead of roads. Behold: a virtuous cycle.

Sure but sprawl limitation/restriction should be contingent on upzoning actually happening.

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I would add 2 years. But this is the trend.

That's incredible. 50% price reduction in only 4 years since 2019. Incredible... I'll hold off buying anything at all until at least 2023 to get a similar EV.

What are the 350 mile range EVs that currently cost $39K?

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Yes, there's nothing wrong with oil and gas. There's a whole lot wrong with the oil and gas extraction industry. That's kind of the point. Nobody's saying there's anything wrong with oil itself (you're setting up a strawman argument there), but that there's a lot wrong with pulling it out of the ground and burning it.

Who's fault is that? It's easy to just blame the oil sector for all our climate woes but the reality is quite different. The oil sector has to conform with laws and regulations just like any other business.........they don't make up the rules as they go along. The government can change the regulations to force lower emissions but they have always been able to do this. The reason they have traditionally been lax in the environmental protection sphere is because the general public was cool with it. The oil sector was simply responding to what the consumer wanted and we wanted cheap gas to continue our consumer society and damn the repercussions.

We live in an oil based economy and I dare you to try to live an oil-free existence. Within a month you would be unemployed and starving. Those dreaded oil workers feed you, cloth you, employ you, move you, and provide you will government services. All those millions of COVID masks and vaccines were getting aren't being delivered by the stork.

The reality is that reversing climate change and saving the environment does not start with governments or the oil/fossil fuel sector but by you and me. Full stop. It's easy to lay blame at others looking out the window but more difficult when you have to look in the mirror.

I too want a clean environment but I'm no environmental saint but at least I am willing to admit it and acknowledge my hypocrisy.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by biguc

Upzone, stop issuing permits for sprawl, but tax dollars from densification into transit instead of roads. Behold: a virtuous cycle.

hear hear.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

That's incredible. 50% price reduction in only 4 years since 2019. Incredible... I'll hold off buying anything at all until at least 2023 to get a similar EV.

It's similar to Bloomberg's forecast. But I find there's a lag between their source bulk price polls and actual retail pricing of 2-3 years.

Originally Posted by Hackslack

What are the 350 mile range EVs that currently cost $39K?

Probably some Chinese model that we've never heard of.

Part of the problem in this price range range is that there's no basic long range sedan that costs US$39k with 350 miles of range. The Model 3 is close at $46k. The VW ID3 Pro S has the range. But it's a higher trim that costs €43k.

Like I said, I think there's a 2 yr lag from pack price to showroom price. I expect that ID3 to come in under US$40k if they launch it in North America after 2023.

My own car is a 2013. So it'll be due for a replacement soon. I've decided to hold out for the flood of EV models in 2022 and 2023, to see how pricing and range pans out. 480 km/300 mi is my threshold. And I'm hoping for a CUV that is under $50k on the road after taxes and incentives in 2023.

[Dylan Leblanc]

Hi guys, I've been noticing some intense debates taking place in this thread. This is fine, as long as we all remember to remain polite. There are going to be differences of opinions here and don't expect to be able to change the minds of every person. It's fine to make your point but don't go beyond that and get into foul language and personal attacks as that is overstepping. There are consequences such as being suspended or banned but forum admin would rather not have to do that but we will if the intensity of discussion goes too far. We'd rather see you walk away from your computer or device for a while than to have your actions lead to the above mentioned consequences.

The forum rules state that anti-social behaviour is not allowed and it's up to you limit yourselves in this regard, before forum admin does. Thank you.

[Hackslack]

China's emissions now exceed all the developed world's combined

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/china-s-...ined-1.1599997

[MolsonExport]

their population does too. and they are busy making all the things we buy.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

their population does too. and they are busy making all the things we buy.

Gives the Inaction advocates another talking point.

[GeneralLeeTPHLS]

Well that's depressing news. The next few decades will be....something.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by GeneralLeeTPHLS

Well that's depressing news. The next few decades will be....something.

I think it is becoming increasingly apparent that climate change is going to happen and average temperatures are going to break two degrees. I think emissions will eventually drop off significantly due to population decline, urbanization and new technology, but it will come too late.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

their population does too. and they are busy making all the things we buy.

The population difference between the OECD and China is pretty small, about 100M.

[WarrenC12]

California hit a record 94.5% renewable power last week. Can't wait to see the first 100%:

https://www.latimes.com/environment/...-boiling-point

Amazing for an economy the size of CA.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

California hit a record 94.5% renewable power last week. Can't wait to see the first 100%:

https://www.latimes.com/environment/...-boiling-point

Amazing for an economy the size of CA.

This must be fake news, as some in this thread have claimed generating significant amounts of electricity with renewables is impossible. .

Seriously though, getting the final 5% and consistently throughout the year will be a challenge. But it is still better than nothing at all, and it is doable.

[ssiguy]

Xi couldn't care less about climate change and probably most of the well indoctrinated Chinese population doesn't either. That said, I think China will vigoursly try to reduce it's emissions.

This however is not due to climate change per se but rather due to China's horrid pollution levels. It causing the premature deaths of millions every year and again Xi couldn't care about that but he does care about the Chinese economy. He knows that much of his support both in and outside Beijing depends upon a strong economy and it's pollution levels are starting to really effect it.

From soaring healthcare costs to whole regions shutting down for days on end due to the air being too polluted to breath to people calling in sick lowering productivity to the educated wanting to leave as the cities become unihabitable........China's economy is slowing down and expenses are soaring due to air pollution. Xi also knows that the West will increasingly be putting up trade barriers to countries with high emissions to force them to drastically reduce their emissions.

Climate Change action will not happen in China but an need to reduce pollution will and the result will be the same............a drastic plunge in emissions.