HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #24161  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 12:34 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,356
^ The whole system worked on sight - some guy sat up in the tower at Clark Junction and operated the signals manually. Trains could clear the junction as fast as the signalman could work the signals.

The modern electronic signaling system has to include a cushion before and after each train moves through the junction, to allow for unexpected issues (before, the signalman could just respond in a live fashion). That cushion time, plus the longer length of Brown Line trains, has slowed down the junction in terms of TPH considerably.

Also consider that CTA didn't necessarily run more trains back then... there was just more crowding.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24162  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 12:46 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,443
Wait, how much are they spending on this flyover again??? That $320 million would be better spent just building another leg of Brown Line track straight east along Wilson and connecting the Brown to the Red at a new Wilson station rebuild. It's only a 1 mile gap, they are paying $423/mile for the Red Line Extension. So for another $100 million we could get an entirely new section of track that would tie into another major construction project we have to do anyhow, instead of gutting a large swath of one of the most vibrant neighborhoods in the city.

Think of how absurd that is. We could just have grade level junctions in both intersections and start running every other Brown Line Train onto the far North Side. Maybe we could even open the door for possible crazy connections like a Purple Line to O'Hare Route with another Brown Line extension to Jeff Park. For that matter, I am going to have to demand that they do something like that instead. It's absolutely absurd how much money the CTA throws at piss ant projects when they could expand capacity elsewhere while still increasing inter connectivity in the system.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24163  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 1:24 AM
k1052 k1052 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Wait, how much are they spending on this flyover again??? That $320 million would be better spent just building another leg of Brown Line track straight east along Wilson and connecting the Brown to the Red at a new Wilson station rebuild. It's only a 1 mile gap, they are paying $423/mile for the Red Line Extension. So for another $100 million we could get an entirely new section of track that would tie into another major construction project we have to do anyhow, instead of gutting a large swath of one of the most vibrant neighborhoods in the city.

Think of how absurd that is. We could just have grade level junctions in both intersections and start running every other Brown Line Train onto the far North Side. Maybe we could even open the door for possible crazy connections like a Purple Line to O'Hare Route with another Brown Line extension to Jeff Park. For that matter, I am going to have to demand that they do something like that instead. It's absolutely absurd how much money the CTA throws at piss ant projects when they could expand capacity elsewhere while still increasing inter connectivity in the system.
I'd like to see the community meetings where running a new elevated structure down Wilson is proposed. It would be better than HBO.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24164  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 2:22 AM
BWChicago's Avatar
BWChicago BWChicago is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 486
What would the Wilson section accomplish? How would you through-route it? I see what you wrote, but you have to account for frequency, balancing, switching and a bunch of other things. The extra switching could add to delays rather than diminish them. Are there that many people who would go lateral and north that don't just take a bus to the brown/red already?

Last edited by BWChicago; May 24, 2014 at 2:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24165  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 2:54 AM
Mr Downtown's Avatar
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
Urbane observer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,385
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24166  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 2:58 PM
Chicago Shawn's Avatar
Chicago Shawn Chicago Shawn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,815
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
^ The whole system worked on sight - some guy sat up in the tower at Clark Junction and operated the signals manually. Trains could clear the junction as fast as the signalman could work the signals.

The modern electronic signaling system has to include a cushion before and after each train moves through the junction, to allow for unexpected issues (before, the signalman could just respond in a live fashion). That cushion time, plus the longer length of Brown Line trains, has slowed down the junction in terms of TPH considerably.

Also consider that CTA didn't necessarily run more trains back then... there was just more crowding.
Plus, transit ridership wasn't so downtown-centric back then, trains were full both ways as factory workers rode them to outlying industrial corridors like Ravenswood, Kinzie and Cicero.

Regarding the northside subway concept mentioned on the previous page; keep in mind the subway is only a two track option; forever giving up the possibility of a true local and express train set up on the north side main. Other than the opportunity to fill the existing ROW with new TOD infill development, I really don't see the advantage to replacing the elevated embankment.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24167  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 6:57 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
Since we're all veering off topic, I'd like to make an off topic observation:

The threadstarter of this 8 year old thread, Chicago Bruce, whose name forever remains immortalized because of it, has not posted at SSP since June of 2007. 7 years!

Damn!
__________________
Supercar Adventures is my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4W...lUKB1w8ED5bV2Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24168  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 7:05 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Since we're all veering off topic, I'd like to make an off topic observation:

The threadstarter of this 8 year old thread, Chicago Bruce, whose name forever remains immortalized because of it, has not posted at SSP since June of 2007. 7 years!

Damn!
I've always wondered if a forumer died, how would any of us know without knowing the persons actual name?
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24169  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 9:34 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
^. Some have purported that Honte died. He was a very active forumer who was passionate about Chicago's architectural heritage who suddenly stopped posting after around April 2008. Some of the old timers here may still remember him. There are still theories, but I don't know if anybody here knows definitively why he suddenly stopped posting.
__________________
Supercar Adventures is my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4W...lUKB1w8ED5bV2Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24170  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 9:39 PM
Ch.G, Ch.G's Avatar
Ch.G, Ch.G Ch.G, Ch.G is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,138
Shit just got real.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24171  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 10:03 PM
nomarandlee's Avatar
nomarandlee nomarandlee is offline
My Mind Has Left My Body
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,334
I enjoy many other Chicago forumers opinions and thoughts shared here. I remember especially appreciating honte's opinions and his passion for preservation in particular though.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24172  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 10:12 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,356
Yes... his insights were always appreciated.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24173  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 10:15 PM
Skyguy_7 Skyguy_7 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,657
^That actually happened over in the NY threads with "Zensteeldude." He was a well-respected, knowledgable member and SSP forumers far and wide were met with sadness upon hearing the news of his passing. His wife signed off on his behalf. I suppose the only thing we can do is make a pact not to leave the forum without a farewell, or just give a family member your login info. At any rate, have a great holiday, all. Construction season ramps up on Tuesday.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24174  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 10:52 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
This is obviously quite off topic, but the internet is only about 18 ish years old and most of us urban enthusiasts are still pretty young. But the reality is, SSP will probably be around for the foreseeable future. At some point there will be some deaths in our community as weird as that sounds. I guess we should all come up with a plan to make arrangements so that the SSP community is notified of this (if you care, of course). Anyway, I obviously have nothing better to do today but these last few posts got me thinking. Carry on...
__________________
Supercar Adventures is my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4W...lUKB1w8ED5bV2Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24175  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 11:44 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,302
I've perused the forums over at wirednewyork for nearly as long but not near as obsessively as I have with SSP. I remember a big incident in 2006/2007 where a prolific forumer who went by the name TLOZ Link5 was actually a victim of violent crime and was killed when a car struck him in Harlem after being chased by some stupid punk kids who we're threatening him. It was a pretty big deal for a while over there and remember it being talked about/referenced frequently. I'm sure the thread or threads about this incident are still on the WNY forums as they seem to be absolutely unmanaged and moderated, not to mention organized, which in some ways is kind of neat as some threads go back 10+ years!

Anyways, just thought I'd mention this to see if anyone else recalls this happening.
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24176  
Old Posted May 25, 2014, 1:59 AM
bnk bnk is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: chicagoland
Posts: 12,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
This is obviously quite off topic, but the internet is only about 18 ish years old and most of us urban enthusiasts are still pretty young. But the reality is, SSP will probably be around for the foreseeable future. At some point there will be some deaths in our community as weird as that sounds. I guess we should all come up with a plan to make arrangements so that the SSP community is notified of this (if you care, of course). Anyway, I obviously have nothing better to do today but these last few posts got me thinking. Carry on...
We [ssp] will eventually need an obituary sticky at some point. I know of at least 5 confirmed deaths of fourmers in the last 6 years. I could for see a memorial type of site.

They say you die twice.

The first, the worst, is when you die physically .

The second is when everyone forgets talking about you or no longer have memories of your life in other friends and family of you and let your stories and grave be ignored.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24177  
Old Posted May 25, 2014, 2:40 AM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnk View Post
We [ssp] will eventually need an obituary sticky at some point. I know of at least 5 confirmed deaths of fourmers in the last 6 years. I could for see a memorial type of site.

They say you die twice.

The first, the worst, is when you die physically .

The second is when everyone forgets talking about you or no longer have memories of your life in other friends and family of you and let your stories and grave be ignored.
^this post is more depressing than any supertall cancellation announcement I've ever seen. This COULD be the most depressing post in the history of SSP.
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24178  
Old Posted May 25, 2014, 3:54 AM
Ch.G, Ch.G's Avatar
Ch.G, Ch.G Ch.G, Ch.G is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,138
brb gotta slit my wrists
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24179  
Old Posted May 25, 2014, 10:43 AM
Tom Servo's Avatar
Tom Servo Tom Servo is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by gallo View Post
The CTA wants to demo that entire block in order to straighten out a very slight jog in the tracks, completely unrelated to the proposed flyover.
That's absolutely absurd. How likely is this to happening???
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24180  
Old Posted May 25, 2014, 12:16 PM
jcchii's Avatar
jcchii jcchii is offline
Content provider
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: city on the take
Posts: 3,119
That really made me laugh, Busy Bee
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:29 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.