General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[xymox]

Originally Posted by combusean

The far west valley where the Saudi alfalfa farms are isn't in an active management area. That has been the literal wild west in terms of agriculture and development and isn't usually a place where ag has ever been sustainable. I actually kind of like this setup--it pretty much guarantees that places like Douglas Ranch and the crap around the sprawl developer's wet dream "Hassayampa Valley Freeway Network" will never actually get built.

Most of arizona's agriculture has been canal water, not groundwater, and the money they pay for that has never been an issue.

...except it IS being built - right now. Sun City Festival and Festival Ranch were the first phase of this back in the early 2000s. Douglas Ranch just kicked off ground breaking for its first phase.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Bottom line is I if they can build cities like Dubai in the middle of nowhere with absolutely no rain and no mountains to provide snow melt we will be fine. We need to better capture run off and desalt ocean water. They talk about how Lake Mead and Lake Powell is so empty compared to thirty years ago but not how the southwest population has doubled in the past 30 years. Our own lakes; Pleasant, Roosevelt and so on will be over flowing by April!

[combusean]

The issue to me is how much existing residents that live in stable areas (SRP and CAP) should subsidize new residents in unstable areas like Douglas Ranch. Infrastructure projects like this have their regional benefits touted but are at the end of the day often developer giveaways.

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

If you love the price of food now, then you'll really love the price of food at that point...

This is more nonsense. Ag has become incredibly more sustainable over the last several decades and use less water per acre for almost every crop. I'm not saying we necessarily push them out; but we cannot simply have a large number of water users essentially over using water supplies because they are free of the market forces. And residential/commercial should not be free of the pain, either. You're trying to oversimplify what is one of the most complex things we deal with as a state.

[YourBuddy]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

This is more nonsense. Ag has become incredibly more sustainable over the last several decades and use less water per acre for almost every crop. I'm not saying we necessarily push them out; but we cannot simply have a large number of water users essentially over using water supplies because they are free of the market forces. And residential/commercial should not be free of the pain, either. You're trying to oversimplify what is one of the most complex things we deal with as a state.

I don’t think people realize the scale that AG operates. The Saudi company alone is leasing 10k acres to grow alfalfa, a crop that takes 3-6 acre-feet to grow. On the high end that would be more water than a $1-2B desal plant produces. Are these really the uses we want to encourage for “food prices”? Especially considering the proposals to build desal for municipal use? Should residents being paying these higher water costs when these exports are allowed?

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by YourBuddy

I don’t think people realize the scale that AG operates. The Saudi company alone is leasing 10k acres to grow alfalfa, a crop that takes 3-6 acre-feet to grow. On the high end that would be more water than a $1-2B desal plant produces. Are these really the uses we want to encourage for “food prices”? Especially considering the proposals to build desal for municipal use? Should residents being paying these higher water costs when these exports are allowed?

Particularly when you consider that Ag is a worldwide market. This notion that our food is grown locally is nonsense. Food is produced in a lot of places. It's not the end of the world if we have to export less or import more of some crop because it's less affordable to grow in AZ.

The amount of Ag products that are exported from AZ is telling. We export to every state and 70 countries. $4.2billion in exports. 43% of our beef. 50% of wheat grain. And that's old data at this point so it's probably more. https://agriculture.az.gov/sites/def...oAZAg_2018.pdf

Again, I'm very sympathetic to the industry but we need to ensure everyone is paying adequately for their water use; it's the fastest way to ensure proper consumption and conservation.

[TheSpud0]

Found this article on what U.S cities would look like in the future and Phoenix was one of the cities.

https://www.thetravel.com/most-beaut...hoenix-arizona

Phoenix is known for offering numerous outdoor opportunities, especially for those who love to spend time in the sun. The city is brimming with hiking trails, beautiful lakes, mountains, and desserts to explore. It is projected that this city will be unlivable by 2050 due to climate change. While experts project that heat will get worse in this city, the future of Phoenix is definitely stunning. Towns like Florence and Maricopa will soon become some of the most impressive suburbs in Metro Phoenix. Many residents live in the downtown area, which will have more attractions, residential units, and enhanced transportation, including air taxis.

[somethingfast]

that is hideous and dehumanizing...please no.

[combusean]

^ Above moved from PDN because I don't want it to clog up an already clogged thread.

Hideous, unbuildable architecture aside Phoenix in 2050 is way more relevant to this thread anyways.

[PHX31]

Phoenix in 2050 is easy to predict... about the same as it is now. A few more people. A few more buildings but none taller than Chase.

[Prestige Worldwide]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Phoenix in 2050 is easy to predict... about the same as it is now. A few more people. A few more buildings but none taller than Chase.

but that doesn't generate those sweet clicks

[combusean]

Originally Posted by PHX31

A few more buildings but none taller than Chase.

Did you have to rub it in? *banhammer*

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by TheSpud0

Found this article on what U.S cities would look like in the future and Phoenix was one of the cities.

It drives me insane when people who clearly have not the slightest understanding of climate science say things like "Phoenix will be unlivable by 2050, New York will be UNDERWATER BY 2100"

No actual predictions have ever claimed these things, its complete nonsense. The global average temperature going up 2 degrees over century plus will cause a lot of changes but its not uniform and some places will actually get colder and wetter or greener and more livable.

Even if the direst predictions come true (which they most likely won't) Phoenix still wouldn't be "unlivable" it would just be a few degrees hotter in the summer, we would regularly hit 120 instead of rarely.

Ah quick upend society!!!

[azsunsurfer]

Originally Posted by Obadno

It drives me insane when people who clearly have not the slightest understanding of climate science say things like "Phoenix will be unlivable by 2050, New York will be UNDERWATER BY 2100"

No actual predictions have ever claimed these things, its complete nonsense. The global average temperature going up 2 degrees over century plus will cause a lot of changes but its not uniform and some places will actually get colder and wetter or greener and more livable.

Even if the direst predictions come true (which they most likely won't) Phoenix still wouldn't be "unlivable" it would just be a few degrees hotter in the summer, we would regularly hit 120 instead of rarely.

Ah quick upend society!!!

Yes, I lost count of all the times we were suppose to be out of fossil fuels, yet Al Gore and John Kerry can still gas up their private planes so I think we'll be ok by 2050.

[CrestedSaguaro]

The article posted above is simply clickbait and nothing more. Aside from the hideous building, it's not even a picture of Phoenix. No need to get all ruffled up over a fluff article. We have a Super Bowl coming up people.

[locolife]

From Phoenix Mountains

[azliam]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Phoenix in 2050 is easy to predict... about the same as it is now. A few more people. A few more buildings but none taller than Chase.

Talk of building a new tallest sorta reminds me of the Arizona Cardinals and their decision-making. It has a way of stirring up excitement initially leading us to believe that we are on the right path and will finally make it, but eventually silence and/or it fizzles out - and we’re left questioning if we’ll ever find success.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by azliam

Talk of building a new tallest sorta reminds me of the Arizona Cardinals and their decision-making. It has a way of stirring up excitement initially leading us to believe that we are on the right path and will finally make it, but eventually silence and/or it fizzles out - and we’re left questioning if we’ll ever find success.

HAHA as a fellow cards fan and skyscraper enthusiast I have to say, perfect comparison :

[muertecaza]

There's a deregulatory, pro-housing bill working its way through the legislature that is similar to bills proposed in other states that would take away some local control and force cities and towns to permit "missing middle" housing. I still have some doubts that it will end up going anywhere here, but it has apparently passed through committee, so may be worth discussing.

There are articles on AZ Central but here's one I found an outlying area that is not behind a paywall:

https://www.myheraldreview.com/news/...ba55e13bf.html

And here's Tempe YIMBY's more advocate-oriented takes:

https://tempeyimby.org/2023/02/13/sb...umbnail_id=951

https://twitter.com/YIMBYTempe/statu...29664078827522

[MiEncanto]

Hard to imagine a better WMPO/Super Bowl week. No major issues. The Valley looked great. The weather was perfect. I've never seen so many events happen here inside of a few short days. Visitors overwhelmingly had positive things to say. Heck even golfer Max Homa complimented our airport this morning.

Measuring the impact is difficult. No doubt some economist will get (over)paid to say it generated X billion. But I think the real impacts are long term. It's all the people who visited and a seed was planted. So when that job opens up in the Valley, they look out at the snow on the ground in Philly and think, 'I could do that'. Or the people who travel back home to KC in their crap airport and think "Sure would be nice to fly out of Sky Harbor more regularly".

I even saw a trend on TikTok where tourists were talking about what they loved most about Phx/Scottsdale etc.

The courting of CEOs had to leave some of them impressed . I wonder how many decided over the past week they are ready to pull the trigger?

It's difficult to overstate how big this week was. I'm told from sources in the know that the WMPO nearly doubled its normal pre-COVID attendance. That's bananas. It seems liked every space in the Valley was at capacity all at once: downtown, Hance Park, the casinos, old town, westgate, Desert Ridge etc.

Here's my question: anyone see any major flaws? Avoidable mistakes?
I heard some complaints about the sod on the field but whatever, that happens. There were traffic complaints but that comes with the territory; I didn't see anything dramatically different myself.
And I heard lines at the SB Experience were so long that many simply left or didn't get much done. That's too bad, but again, a product of how popular it was.