California reports first ever yearly population decline

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Actually, he's right. The alt right has a bizarre, stupid narrative. Most people don't take their shit seriously.

But what is the alt-right and how is this an alt-right conversation?



This is how free speech is being killed in 2021. You simply discount outright something as racist or extreme and you kill off the conversation.

It's lame at best, and dangerous at worst. I don't care if someones conversation is from a communist standpoint, I will still debate it, not simply discount it and hope enough others do the same so I don't have to *think*.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

That's really not unusual. Approximately 400,000 people move out of Texas annually as well. It's just that TX happens to gain more inbound than outbound whereas CA is the other way around.

It's a common misconception that people are no longer moving to California-in fact nearly 5 milliion did just that in the last decade.

Every 1 out of 6 people you came across in 2010 since moved out of state while 1 out of every 8 people you come across today moved to CA within past ten years. Really gives you perspective on how fluid and transient the US population actually is.

[fleonzo]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

But what is the alt-right and how is this an alt-right conversation?



This is how free speech is being killed in 2021. You simply discount outright something as racist or extreme and you kill off the conversation.

It's lame at best, and dangerous at worst. I don't care if someones conversation is from a communist standpoint, I will still debate it, not simply discount it and hope enough others do the same so I don't have to *think*.

I agree with you Jtown....this should be an open forum for free expression and discourse even if differing opinions can’t agree. It’s amazing how some people who think they’re the most “tolerant” are in fact the most oppressive...

[TWAK]

If free speech was being killed nobody would be able to respond to what he said or dispute it, but here y'all are responding and disputing it. I thought this was supposed to be a party, since everybody has wanted California to lose population for some reason. Is this the evidence that was needed to prove we are horrible?

[isaidso]

2020-2021 was an exceptional year due to the pandemic. Demographic changes 2021-2025 will provide a better sense of which direction California is heading. It's a bit pointless to be drawing any conclusions based on that 1 year.

[LAsam]

Here's a good article regarding this from a non-partisan source:

California’s population shrank in 2020, but don’t call it an exodus

https://calmatters.org/politics/2021...shrink-exodus/

But a new analysis from the Public Policy Institute of California says the state remains as attractive as ever for the well-off. It’s people in the working and middle classes who are leaving, largely due to high housing and other costs. “In the past five years the flow of middle-income residents out of the state has accelerated,” wrote Hans Johnson, a demographer with the institute.

I highlighted the above section because I found this a bit concerning. Has this always been the case with California, or is this a newly developed trend?

[RST500]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

But what is the alt-right and how is this an alt-right conversation?



This is how free speech is being killed in 2021. You simply discount outright something as racist or extreme and you kill off the conversation.

It's lame at best, and dangerous at worst. I don't care if someones conversation is from a communist standpoint, I will still debate it, not simply discount it and hope enough others do the same so I don't have to *think*.

Most of the hysteria about the Alt-Right and White Supremacy is just a way to justify for more control by Big Tech and for establishment democrats to detract from economic concerns.

[RST500]

Originally Posted by craigs

And California grew by 2.6 million between 2010 and 2020.

Essentially, people moved out of the state, and not enough people moved into the state to replace those who left mostly because the pandemic brought international immigration to a screeching halt, but also because it kept over 80,000 students abroad from entering the country to study at California universities. Meanwhile, births declined slightly while deaths increased year-over-year by about 20%, for obvious reasons.

After 171 straight years of growth, California could possibly benefit from a breather before growth resumes. And because of the historic nature of the pandemic that so strongly impacted the state's demographics, I doubt we'll see another year-over-year population loss, but who knows.

I support modest population growth through increasing the housing supply but the scenario of an exodus plus immigration is a disaster for social cohesion and California as a whole.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by RST500

I support modest population growth through increasing the housing supply but the scenario of an exodus plus immigration is a disaster for social cohesion and California as a whole.

Do you live in California?

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by RST500

I support modest population growth through increasing the housing supply but the scenario of an exodus plus immigration is a disaster for social cohesion and California as a whole.

I havent noticed that at all, in fact I feel closer and more concerned for others due to the pandemic, and at least in my area, I sense a very noticeable sense of unity behind the idea of masking up and getting the vaccine, regardless of race and ethicity, most people I know and see everyday all feel the same way.

Even now, in public, almost everyone wears a mask outside, like over 99% in my view.

If that isnt social cohesion, I dont know what is.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by RST500

I support modest population growth through increasing the housing supply but the scenario of an exodus plus immigration is a disaster for social cohesion and California as a whole.

This has been the case for NYC since the 1600's, and it seems to have generally worked fine so far. Population growth via immigration despite consistent domestic net migration.

It also seems to be the norm throughout the first world. London, Paris, Toronto, Frankfurt, etc. All growing via immigration, and with pretty dramatic domestic outmigration. Why would this be "a disaster for social cohesion"? Silicon Valley vs. West Virginia, at the two extremes?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

But what is the alt-right and how is this an alt-right conversation?

It's an alt-right conversation because it's based on a lie, propagated by a personality cult. The "everyone is fleeing the blue states bc Antifa/BLM/taxes/socialists" is a regular theme by You Know Who. And we already know the official 2020 population numbers, which show CA had robust population growth, only topped by two or three states.

I thought the article referenced this week's drop of the 2020, but was mistaken, as it appears to be a California-specific sampled population estimate. But, in any case, the article headline is untrue, and the resulting conversation is based on this untruth.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Crawford

This has been the case for NYC since the 1600's, and it seems to have generally worked fine so far. Population growth via immigration despite consistent domestic net migration.

It also seems to be the norm throughout the first world. London, Paris, Toronto, Frankfurt, etc. All growing via immigration, and with pretty dramatic domestic outmigration. Why would this be "a disaster for social cohesion"? Silicon Valley vs. West Virginia, at the two extremes?

I believe the only period in the history of NYC where it had positive net domestic migration was a few decades in the 20th century when the Great Migration was in full swing.

Cities being fertility/migration sinks is also a theme throughout history. We know for example (due to ancient DNA) that the cosmopolitan population of the cities of ancient Rome vanished without a trace, with modern Italians descended from Roman peasants. And we know throughout the Middle Ages cities had higher death rates than birth rates (due in large part to poor sanitation). They only didn't shrink away to nothing due to continued migration of rural folk into the cities.

[Camelback]

I could see a drop from 2020 to 2021 in response to the pandemic then a rebound from 2021 to 2022 and beyond. If rent drops in SF from 4,000/month to 3,000/month somebody will sign that lease.

[Eightball]

Originally Posted by JManc

Roughly 1 out of 6 Californians left California in that time span?

I personally moved in and out of CA twice during the last decade alone so seems very plausible to me LOL

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by Eightball

I personally moved in and out of CA twice during the last decade alone so seems very plausible to me LOL

Every year, about 10% of the population (35 million) will make a move. Some of those that move, will cross state lines. A state as large as California could easily tally up a figure of 6 million over a 10 year span.

[llamaorama]

Originally Posted by Crawford

It's an alt-right conversation because it's based on a lie, propagated by a personality cult. The "everyone is fleeing the blue states bc Antifa/BLM/taxes/socialists" is a regular theme by You Know Who. And we already know the official 2020 population numbers, which show CA had robust population growth, only topped by two or three states.

I thought the article referenced this week's drop of the 2020, but was mistaken, as it appears to be a California-specific sampled population estimate. But, in any case, the article headline is untrue, and the resulting conversation is based on this untruth.

I'm pretty sure it was a conservative conversation that predated Trump and has existed as long as California has existed in the popular imagination as a liberal place. Surely you know this.

The original poster is allowed to have this opinion.

[Bailey]

I think we need to think of the social reasons for low population growth, also.

I believe the United States just posted the sixth year in a row of declining national birth rates....and they are historical lows so it is not only a California issue.

Women are delaying childbirth and instead are pursuing 1, 2, or even 3 college degrees and a career before they EVEN think about having children. Their advanced age plus hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt (student loans, mortgage, credit card, etc.) leaves them in a position where many are having difficulty getting pregnant. Especially, if their only option is expensive IVF.

Ironically, many have been pregnant along the way but opted to abort the pregnancy and now find themselves unable to have a child.

Men, on the other hand, are seriously weighing the financial, legal, and emotional risks of getting married and having a family at all! Many are deciding it is not worth the risks and we are seeing less men even interested in having families and getting married, and definitely not with high risk women (older women with $100k plus of student loan debt) which are more and more characteristics of the typical woman. Millennials just have a completely different view on marriage than previous generations.

Nowhere are these views more prevalent than in progressive California.

[RST500]

Originally Posted by Crawford

This has been the case for NYC since the 1600's, and it seems to have generally worked fine so far. Population growth via immigration despite consistent domestic net migration.

It also seems to be the norm throughout the first world. London, Paris, Toronto, Frankfurt, etc. All growing via immigration, and with pretty dramatic domestic outmigration. Why would this be "a disaster for social cohesion"? Silicon Valley vs. West Virginia, at the two extremes?

California's transient nature makes it difficult to build long term social capital and inter-generational wealthy. The population arrangement acts as a safety valve: if you don't like it here you leave rather than push for change and no incentive to make it easier to raise families here.

It also creates a divide between a wealthy landed gerontocracy and class of immigrants renters and workers, including many illegal immigrants in low wage service jobs and h1bs.
NIMBY restriction only exacerbate these trends and could lead to a California where only 10% of the youth population is Euro descended and even worse inequality by the end of the Century.

[SFTransplant]

I would be highly surprised if this becomes a trend. This is a one-off due to the pandemic and includes people like me who moved away last year temporarily but are already back. I know its anecdotal but I have a lot of CA friends who did the same and are mostly coming back in the next few months.