PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Philadelphia area housing market is still bucking the trends of other cities. The media sale price for a home in Chester County is now over $500k.

Philadelphia-area home prices rose the fastest in February in nearly two years
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=2#cxrecs_s

Ahead of the much-anticipated spring housing market, the median home price across the Philadelphia region jumped 10.4% to $340,000, according to data from Bright MLS. That includes a 6.4% increase within Philadelphia County to $250,000, an outlier from the minimal or negative price growth seen throughout much of the past year in the city.

The market as a whole is an outlier, according to Bright MLS chief economist Lisa Sturtevant. "Washington, [D.C.], Baltimore, they all saw big jumps in inventory in February. Here in the Philadelphia market, it is still pretty tight."

The median sales price jumped 16% in Bucks County to $450,000, increased 13.8% in Chester County to more than $506,000 and 22% in Delaware County to nearly $305,000. Chester County remains the most expensive county in the region.

The average price in my township in Chester County is $575,000...and there is nothing up for sale. Anywhere.

[Marcos]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Chester County also surpassed $500k median sale price since this data was measured.

I'm also curious what the difference would be for Delco if Chester (city/town) were removed. I imagine numbers would be similar to Chester/Bucks/Montco.

Grew up in Delco, bought a starter home in Prospect Park (early-mid 90's), a very small twin, but then we quickly had a couple kids so an up-size was needed. We wanted to stay in the area but at that time (late 90's) we couldn't afford it, pound for pound the prices for what we were looking for were out of our league at nearly 50% higher compared to Chester County, so we rolled out there & grabbed the type of house we needed on a much larger lot for substantially less. Taxes were also less than half at around $2,200; to get a 4 bedroom single in Delco at that time was 100k+ more expensive with taxes over 5k, and most of the lot sizes were 1/3 to 1/2 an acre as compared to the acre we landed on. These issues were really driven home for me the day we sold Prospect & bought West Chester, I remember looking at the settlement sheets side by side & realizing we went from a 2 bed 1 bath 800 square foot twin on .05 acres to a 2000+ square foot 4 bed 2.5 bath single on a full acre and the taxes were nearly identical.

Today the price comparisons have flipped in favor of Chester County but the taxes in Delco are still ridiculous by comparison. As it turned out being broke-ish back then was a real blessing in disguise.

On the issue of Chester, I agree, it is and always has been an anchor to real estate values county-wide, it certainly brings down the overall numbers. Delco is a great county with great people & its geographic position will always make it highly desirable and therefore expensive. I not only lived there for the first 30+ years of my life I also worked in Media for over 25 years, had I not been driven out by the prices back then I'd probably still be there. That said, living in Chester County for now just over 25 years you couldn't pay me to leave, though that may be re-visited in retirement for points even further west of Delco.

[EastSideHBG]

New plan for former David’s Bridal property in Conshohocken



https://morethanthecurve.com/new-pla...-conshohocken/

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Marcos

Grew up in Delco, bought a starter home in Prospect Park (early-mid 90's), a very small twin, but then we quickly had a couple kids so an up-size was needed. We wanted to stay in the area but at that time (late 90's) we couldn't afford it, pound for pound the prices for what we were looking for were out of our league at nearly 50% higher compared to Chester County, so we rolled out there & grabbed the type of house we needed on a much larger lot for substantially less. Taxes were also less than half at around $2,200; to get a 4 bedroom single in Delco at that time was 100k+ more expensive with taxes over 5k, and most of the lot sizes were 1/3 to 1/2 an acre as compared to the acre we landed on. These issues were really driven home for me the day we sold Prospect & bought West Chester, I remember looking at the settlement sheets side by side & realizing we went from a 2 bed 1 bath 800 square foot twin on .05 acres to a 2000+ square foot 4 bed 2.5 bath single on a full acre and the taxes were nearly identical.

Today the price comparisons have flipped in favor of Chester County but the taxes in Delco are still ridiculous by comparison. As it turned out being broke-ish back then was a real blessing in disguise.

On the issue of Chester, I agree, it is and always has been an anchor to real estate values county-wide, it certainly brings down the overall numbers. Delco is a great county with great people & its geographic position will always make it highly desirable and therefore expensive. I not only lived there for the first 30+ years of my life I also worked in Media for over 25 years, had I not been driven out by the prices back then I'd probably still be there. That said, living in Chester County for now just over 25 years you couldn't pay me to leave, though that may be re-visited in retirement for points even further west of Delco.

West Chester is an outlier even in Chester County vis a vis taxes. It's tax rates are far lower than even other Chester County towns and jurisdictions.

And of course taxes were lower in Chester County 20 years ago. When everything is brand new, it doesn't need to be maintained. The tide is turning. When I was a kid, everyone was moving to Garnet Valley because of the schools, obviously, but also because the taxes were low. Well no shit, there were no public sewers (the entire town was on septic) and the entire school district had something like 800 kids. Now there are 800 kids in a class and taxes have skyrocketed. The roads aren't all brand new anymore, and when youre town has 15,000 people instead of 1,500, well now you need a police force, a proper sanitation department, etc.

[Marcos]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

And of course taxes were lower in Chester County 20 years ago. When everything is brand new, it doesn't need to be maintained. The tide is turning. When I was a kid, everyone was moving to Garnet Valley because of the schools, obviously, but also because the taxes were low. Well no shit, there were no public sewers (the entire town was on septic) and the entire school district had something like 800 kids. Now there are 800 kids in a class and taxes have skyrocketed. The roads aren't all brand new anymore, and when youre town has 15,000 people instead of 1,500, well now you need a police force, a proper sanitation department, etc.

I agree it's an outlier, & we specifically chose the more established Westtown over boom town areas like Jennersville, Kennett & Oxford where we could've gotten a brand new 3000sq foot home on 2 acres for what we paid for Westtown, but I wasn't taking the gamble of what kind of development would pop up on the cornfield across the street. I like Walmart and Wawa, but I don't want to look out the window in the morning and see either one of them... I don't recall what the taxes were on those new construction cribs were back then, but I'd expect that that they've gone up considerably more than what I've experienced in WC.

Still, despite similar exponential growth close by me that you've described above (including the purchase of the 180 acre Pete's Produce Farm for construction of Rustin High built in the early 2000s), school taxes went from 2200 to 3700 in my 26 years here. Add in real estate and local property taxes and it comes in around 4900/yr which remains neck and neck with the old Prospect Park crib on 1/20th of an acre, and a little less than half of the 3 bed split I grew up in (Nether Providence Township) which today comes in at 10,500/yr, 1/3 acre. So basically all three of these homes have have risen tax-wise fairly comparably percentage-wise despite the very limited growth, comparably, of those Del Co areas.

[PhillyRising]

West Chester School District taxes have been historically lower than almost everyone else around outside of Upper Merion. My old townhouse in Exton was in the WC School District and houses that were comparable in the next townships that were in the Downingtown district had taxes burdens more than 2 grand more due to the higher school taxes. West Chester SD spans a large geographical area and enjoyed having a lot of commercial properties in it to help it along but with office complexes not doing so well and the Exton Mall is a disaster...there could be some cracks in how they can keep taxes low. On the other hand there is a lot of new housing going up in West Whiteland that will keep added tax revenue so who knows. When we sold out townhouse 10 years ago for 310K...our total tax/insurance costs came to less than 4 grand a year and most of it was the school taxes which I believe were still in the high 2000's a year...insurance was like around 700 a year...township and county taxes were a blip. I don't know about how it is now but i felt the WCSD was pretty well run financially as I never saw a huge increase in the 13 years I had to pay them taxes and that included when they built Rustin which could have easily triggered a massive hike.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Marcos

Still, despite similar exponential growth close by me that you've described above (including the purchase of the 180 acre Pete's Produce Farm for construction of Rustin High built in the early 2000s), school taxes went from 2200 to 3700 in my 26 years here. Add in real estate and local property taxes and it comes in around 4900/yr which remains neck and neck with the old Prospect Park crib on 1/20th of an acre, and a little less than half of the 3 bed split I grew up in (Nether Providence Township) which today comes in at 10,500/yr, 1/3 acre. So basically all three of these homes have have risen tax-wise fairly comparably percentage-wise despite the very limited growth, comparably, of those Del Co areas.

Yes, West Chester is a proxy for West Chester only and not all of Chester County because as multiple people agree, other areas in Chester County have seen their taxes increase a lot. To say uniformly that Chester County has low taxes is no longer the case.

My parents live in Upper Chichester, which has a reputation for high taxes but isn't quite the case anymore. Their taxes went up $500 in total over the course of ten years (2010-2020) which I'd say is pretty darn good for a "high tax" district. In 2021 their taxes jumped about 1,000 on top of that, not because of the district, but due to the county reassessment. Ironically, they didn't complain a peep about it because they actually felt like they were sorta underpaying in the 10 year period prior.

[chris08876]

Any fellow Pennsylvanians feel some shaking this morning? Earthquake.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Any fellow Pennsylvanians feel some shaking this morning? Earthquake.

Yeah it was wild and my building shook for quite a while [as far as earthquakes here go].

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Yeah it was wild and my building shook for quite a while [as far as earthquakes here go].

10 seconds. lol.

It was wild, tho!

[Knight Hospitaller]

Noticeable, but not as noticeable as that Virginia earthquake 13 years ago - although I was in the basement this time, and on the second floor the last time. I could see things shaking and moving back then. This time I just heard a rumble.

[PHLtoNYC]

I was in an office building in a big client meeting and felt the shake, I was actually scared for a second being in a skyscraper, lol.

Felt way more noticeable than the 2011 shake.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I was in an office building in a big client meeting and felt the shake, I was actually scared for a second being in a skyscraper, lol.

Felt way more noticeable than the 2011 shake.

I had finally laid down after my Atlanta trip yesterday, and I was awoken by the shaking, funny enough I live right next to the L and the train was coming at the same time so I thought it was that too

[Mr Saturn64]

Missed it because I was busy working at Wrestlemania. Missed the 2011 one too.

[Marcos]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Ironically, they didn't complain a peep about it because they actually felt like they were sorta underpaying in the 10 year period prior.

I feel that way every July as I hold my breath & open my tax bill

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Mr Saturn64

Missed it because I was busy working at Wrestlemania. Missed the 2011 one too.

Hell yeah, brother!

[Jawnadelphia]

Downtown:

4th and Market - BPG's Humble Park:


8th and Orange - BPG's The Press:


8th and Market - new apartments and retail:


BPG's conversion of the Nemours Building to apartments continues - "The Standard". BPG has launched new social media for this area of downtown - "Market West":
https://www.instagram.com/marketwestde/ and https://marketwestde.com/

"The former Nemours building, now known as Market West, is undergoing a $100 million redevelopment, which will reduce the office space to 150,000 SF and repurpose the historic building into 355 luxury apartments, then introduce Wilmington’s next upscale restaurant, and transform the 17,000 SF outdoor plaza connecting the Market West and 1000 N West buildings."
https://www.wilmtoday.com/brag/bpg-g...pment-project/

----

Some internet sleuthing tells me the next major downtown project could be 601 N. Delaware Avenue. The building is currently going through environmental clean-up and according to a remedial action plan filed with the State, "The Final Plan is being amended based on developer’s changed plan to redevelop the Site to a high-rise, high-density residential building, resulting in an alternative remedial action based on the HHRA."

[bonfire]

https://pressofatlanticcity.com/news...88ce04c35.html

Any update on the Bader Field project? I have not heard anything in a while about it.

[UrbanRevival]

It's very encouraging to see the region's VC investment still performing solidly in Q1 of this year, all things considered with current state of interest rates/borrowing.

For metro areas, Philly ranked 6th for total investment (~$900 million, behind only SF, NYC, Boston, LA and Denver) and 5th for deals (114, behind only SF, NYC, Boston and LA).

Page 17 in NVCA's PitchBook for graphic:

https://pitchbook.com/news/reports/q...enture-monitor

Article in Technically Philly:

https://technical.ly/startups/philad...l-deal-report/

[PHLtoNYC]

Toll Brothers parts ways with Piazza Auto Group on Ardmore apartment development
https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate...-20240413.html

“We are separating from Toll Brothers as a result of the market conditions that have developed over two to three years with the pandemic and costs increasing,” said Rich Orlow, a certified public accountant and attorney who represents Piazza Auto Group’s owners.

Orlow said Piazza plans to move forward with its basic existing plan. That would call for the demolition of the existing dealerships and a nearby and since-shuttered IHOP to make way for an apartment building and a 615-space, partly underground parking garage. One apartment building would be six stories high and the other five stories.

Piazza still has several years to act on its existing permits before they expire, although the new zoning law could complicate things if they don’t act soon.