NEW YORK | 200 Greenwich - 2 WTC | 1,270 FT | 80 FLOORS | ON HOLD

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by worldtrade2021

But 5 WTC was designed by KPF as a mixed use residential and commercial building in February 2021 before the Coalition for an Affordable 5 WTC was formed https://archinect.com/news/article/1...d-trade-center. Why would the architects design it as having residential units in the first place if this was before there was the push for residential space at 5 WTC?

I really can't understand if you are serious or not. But you do know that there was a site plan for the World Trade Center long before February 2021 don't you? You are aware that there have already been a few proposals for the office tower that was to rise there right?

[NYguy]

Anyway, a completed Tower 2 would join the Freedom Tower as the King and Queen (minus 80 South) of the skyline from the harbor.



thomaskoloski2001











Ken S Three

[TKD]

Originally Posted by worldtrade2021

But 5 WTC was designed by KPF as a mixed use residential and commercial building in February 2021 before the Coalition for an Affordable 5 WTC was formed https://archinect.com/news/article/1...d-trade-center. Why would the architects design it as having residential units in the first place if this was before there was the push for residential space at 5 WTC?

It still seems like it was likely a zoning law or pressure from some politicians that resulted in the architects having 5 WTC include residential units, even though it was not stated outright https://ny.curbed.com/2019/6/26/1875...roposals-cuomo. They had the option of making it a purely commercial development but for some reason they included residential units. Had they not done that, the current debate about how many residential units should be 'affordable' at 5 WTC probably wouldn't even be taking place.

Architects (in this case KPF) are not the ones who dictate zoning types for land/what is to be built on a plot, they are just designing for what usage/function they are told to design, it's the developers (PANY, Silverstein Properties & Brookfield Properties) that make that decision and even before them it is DOB and the city (and in some cases the state) that determine the initial zoning for sites/districts. The architects have no say in that matter, nor do singular politicians or special interest groups, nor hasslers/protesters.

There seem to be a lot of "confusion" and questioning on why 5 WTC is being developed as mixed use but the answer is right on the official WTC website,

"This proposed mixed-use development is the result of a request-for-proposals (RFP) announced by Governor Andrew Cuomo in June of 2019, seeking a development team to lease or purchase and redevelop Site 5. The RFP was issued jointly by the Port Authority and the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation (LMDC)."

You yourself even linked an article about the RFP, that is the reason it was changed from purely commercial beforehand to mixed use because of the RFP, not anything else. It was the state that set forth the RFP saying developers could build commercial, or residential and Silverstein/Brookfield answered the RFP by choosing to develop it as mixed use.

[NYguy]

The WTC has been on a roll. We just need that big lease.

Originally Posted by NYguy

Silverstein is at overflow levels now. A little more on that latest 3 WTC lease…


https://rew-online.com/freshfields-s...r-in-new-york/

Freshfields Signs New 15-Year Lease for 3 World Trade Center in New York


by REW
August 24, 2022

https://commercialobserver.com/2022/...k-sf-at-3-wtc/

Asana Expands by 44K SF at 3 WTC


BY REBECCA BAIRD-REMBA
SEPTEMBER 14, 2022

Productivity software maker Asana is adding another 44,000 square feet to its 3 World Trade Center offices.

Asana will grow from 17,000 square feet — which it first leased in 2019 — to 61,000 square feet, according to landlord Silverstein Properties. Asking rent for the space was $135 a square foot.

“Successful dynamic companies like Asana, Spotify and Uber have the real estate flexibility they need to grow, and the perfect location from which to compete for talent,” Jeremy Moss, the executive vice president of leasing at Silverstein, said in a statement. “As companies adapt to post-pandemic life and plan for their future, well-located, accessible, sustainable and high-tech buildings like 3 WTC will continue to be their workplace of choice.”

Asana’s expansion comes a month after law firm Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer nailed down 180,000 square feet in the building.

[jayden]

Any estimates of how many people work in all the buildings combined? (assuming everyone were in the office).

[Lincolnlover2005]

Originally Posted by jayden

Any estimates of how many people work in all the buildings combined? (assuming everyone were in the office).

Nearly 50,000 worked at the original WTC so I'd assume about 20,000 at least

[worldtrade2021]

Came across this render that I never saw before, where the WTC site is viewed from near the corner of Fulton Street and Church Street
https://www.cityrealty.com/nyc/marke...s-decade/39001



The base of 2 WTC looks as if someone placed the PAC on the site of 2 WTC.

Originally Posted by TKD

Architects (in this case KPF) are not the ones who dictate zoning types for land/what is to be built on a plot, they are just designing for what usage/function they are told to design, it's the developers (PANY, Silverstein Properties & Brookfield Properties) that make that decision and even before them it is DOB and the city (and in some cases the state) that determine the initial zoning for sites/districts. The architects have no say in that matter, nor do singular politicians or special interest groups, nor hasslers/protesters.

There seem to be a lot of "confusion" and questioning on why 5 WTC is being developed as mixed use but the answer is right on the official WTC website,

"This proposed mixed-use development is the result of a request-for-proposals (RFP) announced by Governor Andrew Cuomo in June of 2019, seeking a development team to lease or purchase and redevelop Site 5. The RFP was issued jointly by the Port Authority and the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation (LMDC)."

You yourself even linked an article about the RFP, that is the reason it was changed from purely commercial beforehand to mixed use because of the RFP, not anything else. It was the state that set forth the RFP saying developers could build commercial, or residential and Silverstein/Brookfield answered the RFP by choosing to develop it as mixed use.

Thanks, that makes sense.

[worldtrade2021]

Fred Mills (Presenter and Narrator): We've tried reaching out to several people either involved or with knowledge about 2 WTC. But we've hit a lot of dead ends. People either didn't reply or directed us to other sources who also didn't reach back for comment. Silverstein Properties didn't respond to our repeated request for comment. What we do know is that Silverstein has confirmed to the media on several occasions that it's confident this structure will go up eventually. But that's as far as most reporters guess.

But it wasn't total silence. We did hear back from a couple of real estate experts in the city who gave us some insight into what they thought might be happening, and how that compares to the rest of New York.

Moses Gates (VP of Housing and Community Planning, Regional Plan Association): I mean my understanding of 2 WTC is you know they want to build it when it's financially feasible because at the end of the day, you know, you have to be able to cover your expenses and cover your construction costs. And a lot of it is really because there's so many people invested in what gets built. And you also don't want to, you know, saturate the market all at one time and at one place so heavily.

Hiten Samtani (Editorial Director and Associate Publisher, The Real Deal): The market for construction financing for ground-up new development towers is very challenging. If you're building office, right? The capital markets froze during the pandemic but are, have come back. Now interest rates have gone up again. When interest rates go up, it becomes a lot more expensive to build. So you will see that interest rates will affect the rate of construction in New York and other places, right? So now interest rates are high. We are talking about an office market that is again, as I said, there's a lot of questions around it. Do workers need that kind of hub anymore? Do you need a million square feet?

Fred Mills: As of today there is no official word on what the latest design for 2 WTC is going to look like. But that didn't stop a few renders leaking in early 2022.

Instead of those 4 diamond shaped columns, the design has vertical sections that alternate in height starting at around 411 meters. Each section is divided by metal fins and those green filled terraces that seem to be the current trend on nearly every skyscraper render get to stay. If this design is confirmed, then Foster and Partners would have significantly altered its original proposal from 2006. Fair enough. 16 years have gone by.
But what happens if Silverstein can't secure an anchor tenant with this new design?

Hiten Samtani:There are other ways, maybe you can slice and dice the building. Instead of looking for 1 giant tenant, to start things off, you get 10 smaller tenants that fill the same space, right? Maybe this is almost like a food court type of situation, where you have you know, a TAMI hub, or a tech hub, or a media hub, and it's branded and marketed in that way.

Fred Mills: In general we're building at a site with such a heavy and well known past has proven difficult. The gap in the master plan shows just how important it is to find the right tenants to fill a commercial skyscraper. The wrong design won't bring the right tenants to work there, and that can make it impossible for anything to get off the ground.

Now that downtown Manhattan is evolving, it's a question of who it can attract, and when.

Source

[mrnyc]

^ i wonder if that site will be allowed to go mixed use like 5 wtc to git'r done? or will they just sit on it a lot longer and wait for the before times to come back?

[CHAPINM1]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

^ i wonder if that site will be allowed to go mixed use like 5 wtc to git'r done? or will they just sit on it a lot longer and wait for the before times to come back?

Yeah, not a bad idea. In my very humble opinion they should model it after the International Finance Center in Hong Kong which has the worlds highest bar. The bottom number of floors are office/commercial and everything above the 103rd floor and up is hotel with the rooftop bar/restaurant being on floor 118.

With the original 3WTC incorporating the hotel component, it would be logical they could do the same into this new complex. Would be an even added bonus if it a rooftop restaurant/bar could may also compliment the hotel component as well as the entire complex in general.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

^ i wonder if that site will be allowed to go mixed use like 5 wtc to git'r done? or will they just sit on it a lot longer and wait for the before times to come back?

Why would they think that? They have seen the new WTC office towers fill up when built. They have also seen towers in the Hudson Yards and Midtown East fill up. Silverstein is obligated to replace that office space, as well as pay the Port it's rent. These people have a long term view of things, and aren't moved into action because some people think it's not happening far enough. That's just the reality.

[NYguy]

This would be a perfect swap, if it happens, it should be here…


https://therealdeal.com/2022/10/04/a...sale-move/amp/

American Express to explore headquarters sale, move


BY LOIS WEISS
OCT 4, 2022

American Express has hired Cushman & Wakefield to weigh its office options as the financial giant ponders its footprint in Manhattan and beyond. A vast amount of prime space is at stake, much of it at Brookfield Property Partners’ 200 Vesey Street.

Sources told The Real Deal that American Express is looking at about 1 million square feet needed primarily in New York although some could be located in cheaper cities where some of its remote workforce has moved during the pandemic.

The company has been at 200 Vesey Street, the massive Battery Park City building at Brookfield Place, since that project was planned by Olympia & York in the 1980s as the World Financial Center.

But the blue-chip firm’s offices there are now 40 years old — although some were redone after 9/11 — and need a major refresher to attract and retain talent, not to mention get employees to come to work. Amex is competing with tech companies and other financial firms that have moved to modern towers replete with shared spaces rather than warrens of cubicles.

Cushman & Wakefield’s marching orders are to study the benefits of a sale, sale leaseback, relocation, partial relocation or even a bifurcation of its offices and then, presumably, to oversee the leasing.

“Cushman & Wakefield was hired to explore the value of the building and with that comes potentially a leasing assignment,” said one real estate executive.

With Brookfield the likely buyer, the brokerage’s job is to drum up offers by a suitable partner that Brookfield would have to either beat or live with.

The possibility of signing an established anchor tenant is an opportunity for developers looking to finance office projects.

“Silverstein must be drooling,” an industry insider said of Larry Silverstein, who needs a large commitment from a tenant to get his 2 World Trade Center back on track. “It would be the best site for Amex because the employees are already used to the area.”

Silverstein. Brookfield. Make. This. Happen.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Silverstein. Brookfield. Make. This. Happen.

God yes, better 10-15 years late than never...

[Hudson11]

It'd be a bummer if they bought up and spiffed up an office park in the suburbs like Mastercard. Not sure what other landing spots in NYC there would be for such demand. All the usual suspects have filled up. Maybe the Spiral has enough space left. Obviously rooting for 2 WTC. Get it done Mr Burger

[citybooster]

Originally Posted by NYguy

This would be a perfect swap, if it happens, it should be here…


https://therealdeal.com/2022/10/04/a...sale-move/amp/

American Express to explore headquarters sale, move


BY LOIS WEISS
OCT 4, 2022









Silverstein. Brookfield. Make. This. Happen.

Please, do this!!!

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Hudson11

It'd be a bummer if they bought up and spiffed up an office park in the suburbs like Mastercard. Not sure what other landing spots in NYC there would be for such demand. All the usual suspects have filled up. Maybe the Spiral has enough space left. Obviously rooting for 2 WTC. Get it done Mr Burger

3 Hudson needs a tenant, but since they're already Downtown, 2 WTC would seem a natural fit. That plays a part. They wouldn't move to any new tower unless they were the anchor tenant though. The Spiral is mostly spoken for in that regard. The anchor tenants get the lower, largest floors, and maybe a few of the smaller, more expensive floors at the top.

[Yuri]

B1M channel did a very comprehensive video about it:

• Video Link

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Yuri

B1M channel did a very comprehensive video about it:

juW1fisteWE[m

Yeah, that’s the video posted above.

[Prezrezreturns]

When of the phrase “no one” is brought to bear in this particular context, would that be inclusive of Larry himself, who’s been touting this project for all this time as for all intents and purposes #1 on his bucket list?

I know. I can sit through that clip and hear a list of who the rest of those in that “No One Group” might be; but I usually don’t waste a helluva lotta time engaging in editorialist conjecture, especially when it involves a matter of controversy to which there appears no end in sight. BTW far be it to demean the effort this person made in putting the vid together; so apologies are due him for any poor verbiage on my part that might be/have been perceived.

I mean, conjecture is a 1stAm prerogative. Every side of this discussion has carried valid points for debate and continues in that regard; yet monopolization of an entire thread’s worth of otherwise excellent, worthwhile argumentation runs the risk of destroying the good-faith motives of the entire exercise.

Only when there gets to be a dogpile of legitimately sourced commentary that solidly points to the bitter conclusion that this final piece of the WTCII mega-project might not actually survive it’s birth pangs, then the reality for that moment necessitates being dealt with.

For the nonce, however, that long-awaited landing of an anchor tenant must continue its forward trudge.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Prezrezreturns

When of the phrase “no one” is brought to bear in this particular context, would that be inclusive of Larry himself, who’s been touting this project for all this time as for all intents and purposes #1 on his bucket list?

You think Larry, who's up in years and has to pay the PA rent doesn't want to see this thing built?

Meanwhile, the clip didn't tell you anything we haven't already been discussing here, which is really why I didn't post it. It won't move forward until there is a major tenant signed. Anchor tenants are choosing to remain in Midtown. Shocker.