Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[Denscity]

Victoria to host North American rugby 7s Olympic qualifiers in August.

[elly63]

Thought this was interesting

• Video Link

[esquire]

Interesting conversation re: Olympic Stadium. It truly sounds like the definition of a no-win situation. Every option is expensive and lacking in some way. I think the best case scenario for Montreal would be to land some big-ticket team or event (i.e. NFL or the summer Olympics again) and use that to justify the cost of renovations that would breathe new life into the stadium. Everything else is awful to contemplate.

I guess the second best, but much more likely option is to fix the place up for CFL/MLS use. However, it seems absolutely wild to spend the better part of a billion dollars on top of the billion already spent on building and fixing the stadium in the first place. I'm not sure there is an economic case for it.

I like the idea of ripping off the roof and making the place an outdoor venue again, but that would also come with the considerable cost of winterizing the entire facility, losing all convention/trade show business, and losing pretty well all events from December to some time in February or March. Mind you, I'm not sure how big of a deal this really is given that those months are the off season for soccer/football in Canada, and the stadium isn't hosting home shows, boat shows, etc. in those months anyway.

Demolishing the facility would be satisfying on some level, but it would still cost a fortune. And spending all that money would still leave the Als and CF Montreal without a high quality venue in which to play.

I'd probably go with option 3. Turn the place into a viable sports venue again, but without the massive cost of a new roof. The fan experience would probably be enhanced by being able to sit outdoors too, and most of the seating is covered anyway in the event of rain.

[craner]

Skydome Outfield Renovations:

http://https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-unveil-rogers-centre-outfield-renovations/

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by craner

Skydome Outfield Renovations:

http://https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-unveil-rogers-centre-outfield-renovations/

It looks great but honestly I just think 250-300M is a slap in the face to Toronto fans considering this is the first major renovation for a building they bought for 20M. I wish they did something to the ceiling. Even a fake oak wood or translucent panels. I understand that's a large square footage but man would that liven the place up in almost a Madison square garden vibe. I'll hold my judgement until next seasons renos are done but as of right now the place seems underwhelming and although it's a massive improvement I really would love to see the stadium get the love it deserves after 30+ years. The roof/ceiling just needs some kind of drastic change, And the 7 different shades of blue spread throughout the interior bowl STILL is absolute bush league

Let's be honest rogers centre isnt going anywhere. It's not going to be feasible to replace the place in 10 years from now. Arlington's new digs was 1.1B in 2020. So why not spend 500-600M on the place and turn it into one of the best in the league at a bargain?

[Oilkountry]

On another Note I wonder what the final capacity will be after next season? As of this season its sitting at 41,500 down from 49,282. With the wider seats in the 500's and and the lost seating in in the outfield they were able to shave a ton. But if they continue the trend of wider seats in the lower level that should lower it by quite a bit as well.

Also if you look at the concept art for the infield next season compared to present day it looks like they are going to lose quite a bit of lower bowl seats as well.

[Djeffery]

I don't know that 600 million gets them something better than the 300 million will. There comes a point where you can only do so much with the structure you have. I think this renovation is squeezing all that they can out of the building. You can double the cost of a household renovation but if you were originally doing a pretty extensive job, all you are really doing is moving up the level of fixtures and finishes at that point. I don't think there is much you can do to the roof given that it still needs to be able to move.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

It looks great but honestly I just think 250-300M is a slap in the face to Toronto fans considering this is the first major renovation for a building they bought for 20M. I wish they did something to the ceiling. Even a fake oak wood or translucent panels. I understand that's a large square footage but man would that liven the place up in almost a Madison square garden vibe. I'll hold my judgement until next seasons renos are done but as of right now the place seems underwhelming and although it's a massive improvement I really would love to see the stadium get the love it deserves after 30+ years. The roof/ceiling just needs some kind of drastic change, And the 7 different shades of blue spread throughout the interior bowl STILL is absolute bush league

Let's be honest rogers centre isnt going anywhere. It's not going to be feasible to replace the place in 10 years from now. Arlington's new digs was 1.1B in 2020. So why not spend 500-600M on the place and turn it into one of the best in the league at a bargain?

Yeah it would have likely cost double what Rogers was willing to spend ($500 - $600 million you mentioned) to do a complete facelift to both the inside and outside of the stadium. It would have likely given the team another 25 years before having to consider another reno or replacement vs. kicking the can down the road 10-13 years from now. But that's Rogers for you - they are just as likely to tell the public they should be grateful that Rogers are willing to invest a few hundred million into a 34 year old facility they bought for pennies on the dollar.

[king10]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

On another Note I wonder what the final capacity will be after next season? As of this season its sitting at 41,500 down from 49,282. With the wider seats in the 500's and and the lost seating in in the outfield they were able to shave a ton. But if they continue the trend of wider seats in the lower level that should lower it by quite a bit as well.

Also if you look at the concept art for the infield next season compared to present day it looks like they are going to lose quite a bit of lower bowl seats as well.

Seated capacity in 2022 was actually 44,750. That 49,282 number was standing room only and even then, the last few years max standing room capacity has been 46 or 47k.

They removed over 3000 seats from last year but will be able sell more standing room general admissions seats.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/new-out...e-jays/sn-amp/

The 500 level is also being retrofitted with wider seats, which combined with some new outfield cutouts is decreasing seated capacity by about seven per cent from 44,750 in 2022 to roughly 41,500.

[king10]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I don't know that 600 million gets them something better than the 300 million will. There comes a point where you can only do so much with the structure you have. I think this renovation is squeezing all that they can out of the building. You can double the cost of a household renovation but if you were originally doing a pretty extensive job, all you are really doing is moving up the level of fixtures and finishes at that point. I don't think there is much you can do to the roof given that it still needs to be able to move.

They could definitely replace the panels on the roof, theyre reaching the end of their useful life. Perhaps something more translucent.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by king10

They could definitely replace the panels on the roof, theyre reaching the end of their useful life. Perhaps something more translucent.

I know they could do that. My point is would the roof be able to function properly? I can't imagine something that's translucent and also structurally strong would be light. We have translucent roofs on trailers at work, like below. I'm not sure something like that would be something well received by fielders trying to find a ball in it (I remember well the complaints about the Metrodome roof). I'm also unconvinced something like that would increase the fan experience. A trailer roof of this material also isn't very strong, no way would they use this on a building hundreds of feet high. To make it strong enough for that use would mean it gets very thick, heavy and less translucent.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I know they could do that. My point is would the roof be able to function properly? I can't imagine something that's translucent and also structurally strong would be light. We have translucent roofs on trailers at work, like below. I'm not sure something like that would be something well received by fielders trying to find a ball in it (I remember well the complaints about the Metrodome roof). I'm also unconvinced something like that would increase the fan experience. A trailer roof of this material also isn't very strong, no way would they use this on a building hundreds of feet high. To make it strong enough for that use would mean it gets very thick, heavy and less translucent.

The technology is definitely there for translucent ETFE roofing (see post below) Also, I think you meant Astrodome.

[elly63]

VR technology explored in Rogers Centre roof renovations
Adam Laskaris dailyhive.com April 4 2022

Editor’s note: The Toronto Blue Jays wrote in an email to Daily Hive that team president Mark Shapiro articulated in his last media availability “that there would be no exterior changes, including the roof, in the Rogers Centre renovation.” A previous version of the story has been corrected that hinted at this possibility.



The newest set of proposed renovations for Rogers Centre used a VR technology by an engineering firm to explore the possibility over varying roof types on the stadium.

First constructed in 1989 as one of the world’s first retractable roofs on a major sports stadium, the stadium formerly known as the SkyDome is now the seventh-oldest ballpark in Major League Baseball.

Reports came out this past winter that the Blue Jays are looking to put between $200 million and $250 million into upgrades to the stadium, but with few details available to this point about exactly what the renovation entailed.

Flagged on Twitter by user @BlueMetropolis, engineering firm Walter P.Moore underwent a VR study encompassing the light overlay across the stadium, which in images posted on its website, appeared to be a translucent roof.

“A renovation project for the roofing on Rogers Centre provides an opportunity to leverage VR to effectively communicate to the client the impact of distinct design options involving ETFE roofing material,” Walter P Moore’s study reads. “Using the date, time of day, and GPS coordinates, we created a dynamic lighting tool that accurately positioned the sun relative to the structure and time of day. This feature enabled the client, owner, and design team to assess the lighting and shadow characteristics of different roofing panel design configurations.”

In other words, the firm created a program testing how the light would shine onto the field and throughout the stadium during the game with Ethylene tetrafluoroethylene (ETFE) roof.

ETFE roofs are in place in many notable stadiums across the world, including Vancouver’s BC Place, Munich’s Allianz Arena, Minneapolis’ US Bank Stadium, Inglewood’s SoFi Stadium, Las Vegas’ Allegiant Stadium, and Miami’s Hard Rock Stadium, to name a few.

The Rogers Centre currently uses a PVC membrane on its exterior.

Walter P. Moore had previously worked on the Rogers Centre projects, including improvements to the roof mechanization systems of the retractable roof that cut the time to open it in half, from 40-45 minutes to just 20 minutes.

Renovations complete or not, the Blue Jays season kicks off this Friday, April 8, when they host the Texas Rangers at the Rogers Centre.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by elly63

ETFE roofs are in place in many notable stadiums across the world, including Vancouver’s BC Place

In case anyone is wondering:
7,000,000 kilograms – weight of snow that can be supported by the roof structure

I have posted more detailed info about the BC Place roof strength regarding snowloads somewhere at this site, IIRC, and they were more impressive than I would have believed.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by elly63

The technology is definitely there for translucent ETFE roofing (see post below) Also, I think you meant Astrodome.

I don't know what you mean by "I think you meant Astrodome". I'm well aware it has a glass roof. It also is a fixed in place roof. Glass for a structure like the Rogers Centre would have a ridiculous weight and you would probably have to re-engineer the entirety of the roof to support that weight and also make sure the panels are able to move and fit in with each other, open and closed. Personally, I don't feel the view of the back side of the hotel, as that image shows, is really worth a huge amount of money being spent on a roof like that.

[king10]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I know they could do that. My point is would the roof be able to function properly? I can't imagine something that's translucent and also structurally strong would be light. We have translucent roofs on trailers at work, like below. I'm not sure something like that would be something well received by fielders trying to find a ball in it (I remember well the complaints about the Metrodome roof). I'm also unconvinced something like that would increase the fan experience. A trailer roof of this material also isn't very strong, no way would they use this on a building hundreds of feet high. To make it strong enough for that use would mean it gets very thick, heavy and less translucent.

US bank field, SOFI Stadium, Allegiant stadium all built in the last 5 years and have translucent roof. Technology for this has been here for a while.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Personally, I don't feel the view of the back side of the hotel, as that image shows, is really worth a huge amount of money being spent on a roof like that.

Its not about the view its about the feel of the stadium. Even just a bit of natural lighting completely transforms the stadium from a dark dingy dungeon to a bright open experience. cowboys stadium is the perfect example. I bet its a 4 Million dollar project to replace the current membrane in that section above the hotel with panels and would make a bigger difference than all the renos they did this off season. If they did a strip around the bottom 30-40 feet it would feel like an entirely new stadium

[elly63]

Blast from the past

• Video Link

Presentation for Rod Robbie and Michael Allen's proposed SkyDome movement method. Robbie's son Angus Robbie helped prepare the video using crude animation techniques in 1985.

MIght as well add this

• Video Link

SkyDome/Rogers Centre Built In Two And A Half Minutes
Timelapse of the world's first retractable roof sport's stadium.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

If they did a strip around the bottom 30-40 feet it would feel like an entirely new stadium

I doubt if anybody remembers this but one of the proposed designs for SkyDome IIRC had a flat fixed roof and around the sides of the building at the top were large sliding glass windows all around the stadium. They could be opened to allow fresh air into the stadium somewhat giving the illusion of a retractable dome. It wasn't one of the four finalists which I have posted in one of these stadium threads and can't find now.

I know this because I saw the picture in the Globe and Mail when it was published nationally (still is?).

[VANRIDERFAN]

Was walking about Tunney's Pasture today and it got me thinking that it would be a perfect place for the new arena. There is a two story 1960's era building that can easily be demo'd for the arena. The LRT is right there, and Wellington Street is just up the hill with all of its bars and restaurants of Westboro.

Will never happen though.