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  #1221  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2007, 7:44 PM
Chicago3rd Chicago3rd is offline
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Originally Posted by Marcu View Post
To respond to all the hostile remarks…
I’m not sure I ever said Woodfield is doing poorly. I simply said that Woodfield-style malls are to passé for an average suburb and the streets of woodfield type thing is in.
Passe' is a lot different than your original statement.

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Originally Posted by Marcu View Post
About the Joliet mall: Malls aren't a thing of the past. Woodfield-style (confusing, and mostly indoor) malls are a thing of the past.
I'm not a fan of malls...indoor or out door nor am I a fan of big box.

NOTE in an Article below there is a history of all the TIFS in Evanston. It appears it isn't strip malls nor highways that created those strip malls...rather our good friend the TIFS:

http://www.evanstonroundtable.com/rt...2904/news.html
EVANSTON ROUND TABLE: Volume VII Number 26
December 29, 2004
Report Shows City’s TIF Districts on Target
By Mary Helt Gavin


At the annual meeting of the Joint Review Board, held earlier this month, City staff presented information about each of the City’s TIF, or tax-increment financing, districts. In a TIF district, the tax increment (the difference between the taxes on the property as improved and as unimproved) is paid into a TIF fund for the life of the TIF and is used for public improvements within the district. For example, in both the downtown TIFs, the tax increment is used to build the new parking garages.

The Joint Review Board is composed of representatives from taxing bodies with a stake in the TIF funds, such as the two school districts, Oakton Community College and the North Shore Mosquito Abatement Districts. The TIFs are all generating revenues at their targeted levels, said Dennis Marino, assistant City planner, and Bill Stafford, finance director.

Creating a TIF district is one way of enticing developers to an economically slow area, because for the the life of the TIF - typically 23 years - the tax increment can be used to pay for public improvements that may encourage commercial development, such as a public parking garage. However, said Mr. Marino, because the school districts do not share in the tax increment during the life of the TIF, the City in the past few years has looked to alternative means of enticing development. For example, he said, the City forged different agreements with the Dempster-Dodge, Home Depot and Main-McCormick developers.

Below is a description, provided by the City, of each of the City’s TIF districts.

Howard-Hartrey TIF: Evanston’s “downtown”
This TIF, created in 1992 and located in the southwest corner of Evanston, has been called “Evanton’s downtown” by the City’s finance department because of the sales tax revenue it generates. It includes the Jewel Food store and the big box stores of Best Buy, Target and Office Max but does not include the stand-alone businesses, said Mr. Marino. Vineyard Christian Fellowship has purchased the western half of the former Shure Brothers property - located behind the shopping center but not in the TIF - and the eastern half remains for sale, he added.
Mr. Stafford said the City has $7.7 million in bonds outstanding and added, “We’re on target.”

From a railroad spur: The (Sam’s Club) Southwest TIF
This TIF was created in 1990 from the old Northwestern Mayfair railroad line, a spur that served the industrial area of southwest Evanston, said Mr. Marino. The City paid for the relocation of Ward Manufacturing from that area to a few blocks away. “It has been fairly successful because of Sam’s Club. This is one of the top three Sam’s Clubs in Illinois,” he said.

The Food For Less store, which anchors the adjacent Evanston Market shopping area, has a different agreement with the City, said Mr. Marino. Under it the City will reimburse the developer $1.5 million in taxes over 10 years. Anna’s Linens, Marshall’s and, coming soon, Starbuck’s are part of that redevelopment agreement, not the TIF.
Property taxes there are relatively stable, said Mr. Stafford, adding that certain funds from this TIF were shared with School Districts 65 and 202 under an intergovernmental agreement.

The former incinerator and City pound: Downtown II
The property in this district - located between Emerson and Church streets from the CTA to the Metra tracks - was home at one time to the City’s incinerator, said Mr. Marino, and later to the Levy Senior Center, a Dominick’s Food Store, Dave’s Italian Kitchen and Pine Yard restaurants. It now holds the new movie theater complex, the Maple Avenue garage, the McDougal, Littell building, the 1800 Sherman building and two Optima condominium developments.
The TIF, created in 1985, is fully developed, though not all spaces are leased. Two restaurants there - Corner Bakery and Baja Fresh - closed recently.

“It was not the [Evanston] market that caused the closing but internal problems with the companies,” Acting City Manager Judith Aiello said. “Another restaurant will take the place of Baja Fresh, and a home-furnishings/soft goods type of operation will take over the Corner Bakery spot.” She added, “We’ll be adding unobtrusive greenery and public art, because we had some public art money left over [from the art for the Maple Avenue Garage].”

Mr. Stafford said revenues from the movie theaters are good; the City’s figures show more than a million movie sales annually. However, he said the parking revenue is sub par, and the City plans to revamp the fee and fine structures for all public parking in the coming fiscal year.

He added that $38 million in bonds remains to be paid but, “in spite of the bonds, we think this TIF is in healthy shape. We will be paying the bonds down aggressively.” A substantial portion of the bonds was issued to pay for the Maple Avenue garage. As in previous years, about $800,000 in funds from this TIF was transferred to the Washington National TIF, since that TIF was amended.

Washington National TIF Now Includes Sherman Plaza
Created in 1994, the Washington National TIF originally contained the Whole Foods store and the high-rise apartment building adjacent to it, said Mr. Marino. However, the TIF was amended in 1999 and the area expanded along Davis Street to include what is now the Sherman Plaza development, nearly the entire Church-Sherman-Davis-Benson block, he said.
“The taxes from this TIF were about $1 million last year and we expect about $1 million again this year,” said Mr. Stafford. Alluding to the construction of the new Sherman Avenue garage, he said, “I hope by this time next year we will have spent another $30 milliion.”

Ms. Aiello said the developer of Sherman Plaza finally closed on the loans to begin the development, which will house a new City-owned public parking garage, a residential development with 253 condominiums, and 156,000 square feet of retail, including Pier One Imports, Ann Taylor Lofts, Elizabeth Arden Red Door Spa and Barnes and Noble [relocating from across the street].

In addition the developer is negotiating with an athletic club. “[James] Klutznick [the developer] will re-tenant the Barnes & Noble space with a soft-goods user - not a coffee shop and not a restaurant. There will be no restaurants in this development,” she said, adding, “80,000 square feet still needs to be rented. The main change is that Osco will not return to the development. The store will close. The corporate headquarters has determined that stand-alone Oscos don’t do as well as Oscos with Jewel food stores, so they’re taking a look at all the free-standing Oscos.”

Regarding the new parking garage, which will be financed with TIF funds, Ms. Aiello said the construction has begun and “We’re moving along. Design bids are coming in much higher than anticipated because of cement and steel prices. We’re doing some value engineering on the garage right now.”
It is expected the garage will take 16 or 17 months to build, she said, and the target date for the condominiums, 52 percent of which are already sold, is April, 2006.
Other TIFs

The Howard Street TIF, created earlier this year, has as yet seen no development. It runs in a thin strip along the north side of Howard Street for a large part of the block east of Chicago Avenue and includes some parcels along Chicago Avenue. “It has long been a priority for economic development. This year it yielded $669 in property taxes,” said Mr. Stafford. “The major project there is the [Chicago-based] Bristol development project. Bristol would like to build a 16-story apartment complex with 220 rental units. Our feeling is that if that development plays out it, will be a great complement to the Gateway project across the street [in Chicago].”

He also said some small businesses have expressed interest in other parcels.
In addition, the City is moving forward with a West Evanston TIF, said Mr. Stafford. “Kane McKenna [the City’s consultant] is doing a feasibility study, and we hope for a report by the end of January,” he said. Although the boundaries of the TIF - approved in concept by City Council earlier this year - are not precise, it would likely enclose much of the Church-Dodge area, as well as properties to the east, north and west of the intersection.

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Last edited by Chicago3rd; Jun 8, 2007 at 8:13 PM.
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  #1222  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2007, 9:43 AM
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=
Maybe I am wrong....but I just think this mall thing could spell doom for Joliet's DT
maybe.

although i feel that people today are looking for options other than malls (downtown's provide a heart and soul to places). DT Joliet has got enough momentum to sustain itself IMO.
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  #1223  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2007, 3:51 PM
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  #1224  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2007, 8:57 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Cme/cbot/ice

It's sad news that this thing is getting so complicated.

But I've reached a certain peace with the possibility that Chicago may some day become an office backwater. I imagine it as one of the world's great office backwaters, where all the "behind the scenes" stuff gets done that helps keep the global economy moving.

Nevertheless, having a local mega-exchange would still be nice. As I've said before, if the CBOT vote favors ICE, all blame will 100% fall on the CME for failing to open up their huge wallets.
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  #1225  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2007, 9:56 PM
laro3 laro3 is offline
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blame the cbot for not seeing what will happen,for caring just about the money and not chicago.
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  #1226  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2007, 11:02 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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blame the cbot for not seeing what will happen,for caring just about the money and not chicago.
^ Hey, that's business and those are the rules. If the CME wants this thing then they need to play by them. They have the financial means to win this bidding war, but they're playing a pretty damn risky game. From what the press is telling us, this one's certainly going to be close.

Once the CBOT shareholder vote takes place, can CME still up their offer or is it all over?
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  #1227  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2007, 12:56 AM
ginsan2 ginsan2 is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
It's sad news that this thing is getting so complicated.

But I've reached a certain peace with the possibility that Chicago may some day become an office backwater. I imagine it as one of the world's great office backwaters, where all the "behind the scenes" stuff gets done that helps keep the global economy moving.

Nevertheless, having a local mega-exchange would still be nice. As I've said before, if the CBOT vote favors ICE, all blame will 100% fall on the CME for failing to open up their huge wallets.
Hear hear. Chicago really will become a backwater, and not a true global presence, if it doesn't develop its own financial center. CBOT/CME is the last hope it has, and I just pray it keeps it "in town".
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  #1228  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2007, 1:32 AM
Marcu Marcu is offline
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Hear hear. Chicago really will become a backwater, and not a true global presence, if it doesn't develop its own financial center. CBOT/CME is the last hope it has, and I just pray it keeps it "in town".
Lets not get ahead of ourselves. As of 2 days ago, Forbes, AP, and Reuters are still reporting that the CME deal is viewed as superior.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/...ap3800480.html
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  #1229  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2007, 1:36 AM
laro3 laro3 is offline
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goldmn sachs is behind all of this that who controlls ice and other goldman people are in the right place to monopolize the market.they have alot of money to mess things up.
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  #1230  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2007, 2:18 AM
ginsan2 ginsan2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Marcu View Post
Lets not get ahead of ourselves. As of 2 days ago, Forbes, AP, and Reuters are still reporting that the CME deal is viewed as superior.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/...ap3800480.html
And what about the anti-trust concerns?
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  #1231  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2007, 2:49 AM
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^The last word is that the antitrust ruling should be delivered before the July 9th vote. The CME president said that he thinks it will get the green light, and push up CME's stock price and correspondingly, the value of the CBOT bid. However, a recent crains article also states that ICE investors are not happy about the CBOT deal because it makes ICE a more unwieldy takeover target for other bigger players that are interested in getting into the futures market. Thus, every piece of bad news for the ICE/CBOT merger seems to drive the ICE stock price up, thereby increasing the value of the ICE offer. So a positive ruling from the justice department could mean that the disparity in the two bids won't change much. What a complicated mess. I agree with TUP, if this bid is lost, it is the merc's fault for not using their superior resources to guarantee the win.
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  #1232  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2007, 3:31 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by Marcu View Post
Lets not get ahead of ourselves. As of 2 days ago, Forbes, AP, and Reuters are still reporting that the CME deal is viewed as superior.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/...ap3800480.html
^ Yeah, but the issue is the shareholder vote. How they vote is pretty much everything at this point, regardless of how the CBOT's President/Chief Executive and so forth feel about it.

There's a huge unknown here. The Merc can do away with this uncertainty for once and for all by increasing their bid to such a level that exceeds ICE's ability to create a suitable counter-offer. Obviously the Merc has it in their own interest to keep their buying price as low as possible, but they're REALLY skimming the edge here.

My guess:

There is some inside info going around that we're not aware of (the usual case). Obviously, people are talking and the CME's boys are getting some sort of reassurance that they still have the shareholder votes to get the deal done. Otherwise, why would so many CBOT shareholders still be making so much noise about how dissatisfied they are about the deal? If they were the majority, I'm guessing that some action would have taken place from the CME's side, at least by this point.

Of course this is all my foolish speculation, and I'd love to be right. But in reality, I don't have the foggiest idea what's going to happen. Peace out.
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  #1233  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2007, 3:33 AM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
It's sad news that this thing is getting so complicated.

But I've reached a certain peace with the possibility that Chicago may some day become an office backwater. I imagine it as one of the world's great office backwaters, where all the "behind the scenes" stuff gets done that helps keep the global economy moving.

Nevertheless, having a local mega-exchange would still be nice. As I've said before, if the CBOT vote favors ICE, all blame will 100% fall on the CME for failing to open up their huge wallets.

The only thing that would stop a Chicago merger is pure greed by the COBT seat holders who can only look far enough into the next 5 years and how much the can get cash wise.

Screw everyone else.

If Ice take place than it is nothing more than pure greed, no loyalty just fast cash and that is sad.

Then Chicago will be the backwater that they do not want but why would they care for they got so much pay out cash that they will have multiple houses in the world.

But their children and grandchildren will be working the taxies in Atlanta and NY hoping for the scraps that fall off the table of the billionaire will have raped Chicago.

Last edited by bnk; Jun 10, 2007 at 3:39 AM.
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  #1234  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2007, 3:37 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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^ Eh? You don't sound even remotely like your usual self there, bnk..
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  #1235  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2007, 3:44 AM
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kind of nice to hear among the whole ice cbot cme mess

Crains online

Chicago tops for trading: magazine


June 08, 2007

(Reuters) — Da bears. Da bulls. Da traders. Chicago is the "greatest trading city in the world," according to a survey by Trader Monthly magazine.
The magazine, which is aimed at professional traders and hedge fund managers, ranked 50 cities in an effort to find the ultimate place to live and trade.

The rise of electronic markets had theoretically leveled the global playing field, making it possible to fire off winning trades while enjoying a poolside cocktail in Tahiti.

Still, Chicago, hog butcher to the world and stacker of wheat, beat out the glamorous, the glitzy, the exotic and the tax havens to take the top prize.

London, New York, Dubai and Miami rounded out the top five, in that order.

The magazine said it rated a mixture of work and lifestyle factors, from trading infrastructure, taxes and access to capital to weather, nightlife and time zone.

The latter apparently helped knock Sydney, Australia, the jewel of the South Pacific, to No. 26 on the list, below Philadelphia and only two notches above Minneapolis.

Chicago was praised for its enduring position on the commodities world's front lines. Trading is "in the city's blood," the magazine said.

The two largest U.S. futures marts and the largest U.S. options exchange all reside in the Windy City, and face-to-face trading endures alongside the electronic markets.

Affordable real estate — "practically youth-hostel rates compared to London" — also boosted Chicago while knocking down its two nearest competitors. New York was also rapped for a "deadly tax trifecta": federal, New York state and New York City taxes.

Bringing up the rear at No. 50, Stockholm was cited for beautiful people, ice-fishing — "and not much else."

Trader Monthly's survey will hit newsstands on Tuesday.
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  #1236  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2007, 3:53 AM
Eventually...Chicago Eventually...Chicago is offline
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Here's that article mentioned above...

Trade Here : Best Trading Cities: #1 Chicago
June/July 2007
If the Good Lord were a speculator — and, given the steep odds against a spasmodic celestial mess of metal and dust particles coalescing over billions of years into an inhabitable planet, we’re assuming He likes to play long shots — and decided to pay earth a visit, we bet His first stop would be Chicago. When it comes to the world’s best cities for market movers, our rankings confirm what many mortals already know: This place is trader heaven.



“Chicago is ideal — economic strength and an enhanced quality of life,” longtime mayor Richard Daley told Trader Monthly when informed that his city had secured the coveted top spot on our list. Chicago Merc legend Lewis Borsellino concurs: “Trading is about discipline, perseverance and having a never-say-die attitude,” he says. “That all ties into the work ethic rooted in the Midwest. When Chicago burned down, it was rebuilt bigger and better.”

Trading isn’t just an important part of Chicago’s culture — it’s in the city’s blood. The ability to store and ship grain and other farm-produced goods during the heyday of the railroads in the 1800s made Chicago a living, breathing hub of commerce and birthed the modern commodities industry. The city itself arose on the shoulders of the two great commodities exchanges: the Chicago Mercantile Exchange and the Chicago Board of Trade. Trading titans such as Borsellino, Tom Baldwin, Leo Melamed, Joe Ritchie, Blair Hull and Richard Dennis all got their start on the floors, gladiators’ arenas where men once lined up starting at 4 a.m. just to mark their spot with tack and trading card.

Over the years, a bustling community of speculators, brokers, clearers, custodians, independents, money managers, CTAs, tech providers and tangential players grew, and to this day those groups make up the solid, stable core of Chicago, creating a trading mecca that has, in turn, spawned a citywide ethos of expansion and innovation. Archipelago, the electronic exchange that upended the way the equity markets do business, was conceived in a trader-filled room here. The Eurodollar, the futures contract that makes the world go ’round, was born here at the CME, in the largest trading pit known to man.

Couple this vibrant trading community with a relatively affordable cosmopolitan setting (replete with a knockout combination of beachfront tranquility and big-city nightlife), prime access to capital and world-class financial-services infrastructure, and it’s obvious why “Sweet Home Chicago” is music to so many traders’ ears. “As surfing is to Southern California and skiing is to Aspen, trading is to Chicago,” says options-industry elder statesman Charles Cottle, who traded (and trained traders) in dozens of cities around the world during his 25-year career — and, in the end, always came back to the shores of Lake Michigan. “With the futures industry headquartered here and all those transactions, it’s made us a center for global financial services,” says Representative Danny Davis (D., Illinois), whose district includes downtown Chicago. “It’s the city of big shoulders.”

In our rankings, Chicago didn’t crush the competition in any one category; rather, it fared so impressively across the board that it was able to pull out the top spot from among the extremely competitive “Big Three” cities — and did so even as London and New York are witnessing a barely comprehensible influx of trading wealth. For example: As tax burdens go, Chicago is no St. Thomas or Singapore, but among U.S. cities, it offers more bang for your buck than New York or even Greenwich, Connecticut. Similarly, Chicago real estate can get expensive — but rents and sale prices here are practically youth-hostel rates compared to London, where even relatively wealthy traders are increasingly finding the cost of living untenable.



Traders love action, of course, and in Chicago’s vicinity reside no fewer than 16 gambling halls and casinos, some of which float offshore on Lake Michigan. The city’s prime waterside location — ideal for sailing, volleyball, beach bars and anything else even remotely aquatic — is another big plus.

Looking to blow off a little steam? Chicago certainly has no shortage of “put” options — as in belly up to the bar and start putting them back. “Chicago traders are of a particular makeup,” says Dan Rosenthal, owner of Poag Mahone’s bar, located right across from the CBOT. “They trade hard, play hard and drink hard. They know what they want, and they go get it.” Sold.
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  #1237  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2007, 4:06 AM
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^ Eh? You don't sound even remotely like your usual self there, bnk..

Sorry I felt a little bit pessimistic about this whole convoluted transaction.


But in reality I believe in that the CME COBT will happen but they just need a little local nagging I think.


This merger IMO is as important as the Chicago Spire and the 2016 Olympics so you can see my personal desire to keep things at home.

Sorry I am not myself.
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  #1238  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2007, 4:41 AM
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How long does a typical trader intend to keep his job? My personal belief is that, supposing the ICE merger was a higher value, there would obviously be a high immediate payoff - but very little long-term, as all of those jobs would be going away. I think Sachs would probably figure out a way to step in and axe the whole operation, or let it dwindle down to nearly nothing.

I obviously don't know anything about this subject, but doesn't Sachs already have futures trading operations? That's what I'm getting at. Why else would they be so worried about the mega Chicago futures exchange?
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  #1239  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2007, 3:23 PM
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who cares about having a distinct commercial district? Cities need people and people need places to live. Jobs follow where people want to be. People moved out to the suburbs long before companies began relocating there.

300 North Lasalle and bucks wacker building (can't remember address) among other proposals and projects under construction just show that with an office market that still has relatively high vacancy, 50-60 stories is about the highest it makes sense to build. If job growth goes sky high and vacancy goes down, rents go up, you will see high rises downtown. Chicago has plenty of land all over its central area to sustain new buildings for years to come
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  #1240  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2007, 3:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Lukecuj View Post
Random thought. Chicago's relaxed zoning in the central business district will bite it 50 years from now by failing to keep a distinct comericial district apart from residential development and subsequent political accomodations. We're being very short sighted. There will never be another comercial supertall because of this.
Yeah, it doesn't matter much if there isn't a district that isn't completely designated as being 'commercial'. There's been much discussion on this board relating to the extreme benefits of mixed-use neighborhoods over zoning for purely purely residential/commercial needs.

Chicago will have a downtown with people able to afford to live there; real people, of many different ages and social classes. It's the only city in the world at this point that can say that.

That being said, however, I'm still completely surprised that Chicago won over NYC in that article. As much as I dig Chicago...

(Especially for the 'weather' part, how does being unable to enjoy outdoor activities for 10 months amount to coming in first?)
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