CHICAGO | Lincoln Yards

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

"Tell the broker we're looking for a place where we can pay Cook County commercial property taxes without getting any of the advantages of being in the city."

well, Zurich built their snazzy new North American HQ out in schaumburg several years ago (cook county commercial property taxes, none of the advantages of being downtown).

i'm not saying that Zurich would have been a good candidate for LY, just pointing out that there are entities willing to pay cook county rates without the advantage of being downtown.

[maru2501]

full council taking this up RIGHT NOW

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Oh yeah, all the major corporate headquarters who've been waiting for decades for someone to offer a location that's inaccessible by transit. "Tell the broker we're looking for a place where we can pay Cook County commercial property taxes without getting any of the advantages of being in the city."

"How far from the metra stations in the West Loop can we go? All the way to Lincoln Park? Excellent!"

[Goose Island Guru]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Oh yeah, all the major corporate headquarters who've been waiting for decades for someone to offer a location that's inaccessible by transit. "Tell the broker we're looking for a place where we can pay Cook County commercial property taxes without getting any of the advantages of being in the city."

Clearly you don't understand the scope of the development if that's honestly what you think.

[BVictor1]

32-13
Approved

[maru2501]

It just passed full council

32-13

[maru2501]

amazing town

so Burke recused from the 78 but not this ?

nevermind.. abstained on both

[BonoboZill4]

Ugh... Sterling Bay better not screw this up then...

[Hourstrooper]

https://blockclubchicago.org/2019/04...oln-yards-tif/

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...416-story.html

BAD NEWS...….Hope those grassroots hippies don't screw this up. Though I think they don't have any shot.


this lawsuit is basically a joke to me....

[the urban politician]

^ Those nitwits won’t get anywhere with this.

They don’t even understand how TIFs work. Too many people just want to go out and protest now, trying to relive the 60s and be “cool”

[Hourstrooper]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Those nitwits won’t get anywhere with this.

They don’t even understand how TIFs work. Too many people just want to go out and protest now, trying to relive the 60s and be “cool”

Yea its crazy... they literally have nothing better to do that's productive so they do this lol

[dropdeaded209]

how can the city afford subsidies like this? who stands to benefit from Lincoln Yards, and what happens if the project fails to perform to expectations?

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by dropdeaded209

how can the city afford subsidies like this? who stands to benefit from Lincoln Yards, and what happens if the project fails to perform to expectations?

The subsidy comes from the additional real estate taxes generated by the development itself. The city doesn't get those taxes now because there is no development. There will be a redevelopment agreement between the city and the developer outlining what must be done in order to earn the TIF proceeds. If the developer doesn't perform, they are in default and don't get the cash This is how TIF works.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

The subsidy comes from the additional real estate taxes generated by the development itself. The city doesn't get those taxes now because there is no development. There will be a redevelopment agreement between the city and the developer outlining what must be done in order to earn the TIF proceeds. If the developer doesn't perform, they are in default and don't get the cash This is how TIF works.

Try explaining that to the protesters. You’d probably get shouted over before you finished a sentence

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Try explaining that to the protesters. You’d probably get shouted over before you finished a sentence

Oh, I know. I have explained this to people in person and they just don't get it. Morons like Jesse Sharkey and CTU have convinced people otherwise. Because CTU good, development bad.

[Mr Downtown]

The objection many of us—including a dozen aldermen—have is that TIF redevelopment subsidies are supposed to be used only in places that are unlikely to redevelop but for the subsidy. Clearly that's absurd in places like Hoffman Estates cornfields, or the Central Loop, and it's just as absurd here, smack between Lincoln Park and Bucktown. Freed of the PMD restrictions, this land would quickly develop with no need for any new infrastructure, and no need to rob future tax revenues to pay for new infrastructure.

[Goose Island Guru]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

The objection many of us—including a dozen aldermen—have is that TIF redevelopment subsidies are supposed to be used only in places that are unlikely to redevelop but for the subsidy. Clearly that's absurd in places like Hoffman Estates cornfields, or the Central Loop, and it's just as absurd here, smack between Lincoln Park and Bucktown. Freed of the PMD restrictions, this land would quickly develop with no need for any new infrastructure, and no need to rob future tax revenues to pay for new infrastructure.

You're kidding right? You're actually serious?

Tell me how this industrial area, not built for office and residential use, is going to be developed one lot at a time.

The roads aren't there. The utilities aren't there. Bridges, infrastructure, a new Metra station all aren't there.

Think of Lincoln Yards as a collection of properties. These properties are not coming individually without those vastly important items being in place.

LY will be built over the 15-20 year timeframe. If these were individual parcels being built one at a time, you'd see one or two get built then the infrastructure would be maxed out. The City would have to spend money to upgrade the infrastructure, but will ONLY do it to the absolute minimum. This will take the City 2-3 years. Then, and only then, will you see another parcel or two developed. Max out infrastructure, wait for city upgrades, and so on and so forth.

This collection of parcels would take well over 50 years to be built versus SB doing it in 15-20.

Consider the time value of money - all the tax revenue that will come in between year 20 and year 50 is immensely beneficial to the City. If the cost of that is a tax subsidy, so be it! Not to mention, the City is paying for it either way. Might as well maximize the IRR on the cash flow.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

The objection many of us—including a dozen aldermen—have is that TIF redevelopment subsidies are supposed to be used only in places that are unlikely to redevelop but for the subsidy. Clearly that's absurd in places like Hoffman Estates cornfields, or the Central Loop, and it's just as absurd here, smack between Lincoln Park and Bucktown. Freed of the PMD restrictions, this land would quickly develop with no need for any new infrastructure, and no need to rob future tax revenues to pay for new infrastructure.

The problem with your objection is that 50 years of development history in Chicago has proven to us that infrastructure investment will not bring private development to our most impoverished areas.

Just take a ride on the Green Line or Red Line south. Surrounded by fields. They've got roads, transit, sewer, gas, water service. But still, nobody wants to live there.

Contrarily, if you spend TIF on an area that will take off with private investment once you give it a "jolt" of infrastructure (see the 606 example), TIF money generates a LOT more value and return on the public investment.

So it's time to stop lying to ourselves that TIFs are going to somehow redistribute wealth to struggling, low income areas. They aren't. They can't. All they can do is spur development and increase our tax base. I think that should be the new narrative around TIFs.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Goose Island Guru

You're kidding right? You're actually serious?

Tell me how this industrial area, not built for office and residential use, is going to be developed one lot at a time.

The roads aren't there. The utilities aren't there. Bridges, infrastructure, a new Metra station all aren't there.

Think of Lincoln Yards as a collection of properties. These properties are not coming individually without those vastly important items being in place.

LY will be built over the 15-20 year timeframe. If these were individual parcels being built one at a time, you'd see one or two get built then the infrastructure would be maxed out. The City would have to spend money to upgrade the infrastructure, but will ONLY do it to the absolute minimum. This will take the City 2-3 years. Then, and only then, will you see another parcel or two developed. Max out infrastructure, wait for city upgrades, and so on and so forth.

This collection of parcels would take well over 50 years to be built versus SB doing it in 15-20.

Consider the time value of money - all the tax revenue that will come in between year 20 and year 50 is immensely beneficial to the City. If the cost of that is a tax subsidy, so be it! Not to mention, the City is paying for it either way. Might as well maximize the IRR on the cash flow.

I'm not that old, but I'm old enough to remember when nearly this whole area was in fact filled with active businesses and buildings contributing property tax on both land and improvement value, even if not via the most profitable and lucrative uses for the new and previous owners. Reading your justifications, one might almost think that every parcel here was vacant and useless until a powerful interest started landbanking it.

For all the talk about spreading investment and development throughout the city, this is also an offensive location for major office development given how inaccessible it is from the South and West Sides, whose future redevelopment hinges on job accessibility. Job growth downtown is good for every neighborhood with good transit access to downtown. Job growth in Lincoln Yards is good for.... Bucktown, Lincoln Park, and the north and northwest suburbs?

[Mr Downtown]

Originally Posted by Goose Island Guru

Tell me how this industrial area, not built for office and residential use, is going to be developed one lot at a time.

The roads aren't there. The utilities aren't there. Bridges, infrastructure, a new Metra station all aren't there.

The same way all the other former industrial sites up the North Branch got redeveloped: primarily as clusters of townhouses and s/f houses on private streets. Not my favorite thing to see in the city—but requiring no public subsidy.

High-density development shouldn't be put where there's no transit—and it sure as hell shouldn't be subsidized to go there.