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  #161  
Old Posted May 27, 2020, 4:12 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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I think that salt district redevelopment would be a cool take on a casino, but maybe too gimmicky and so ultimately I would advocate for a new construction and ultra-luxury casino tower by a Wynn. That would probably help differentiate from the other casinos in the region too.
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  #162  
Old Posted May 27, 2020, 8:55 PM
rlw777 rlw777 is offline
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^ I don't know, I think they should just own it. Call it Al Capone's Casino and tourists will flock there.
That would actually be quite fitting if they built it around Motor Row. Capone lived there for a few years in the Lexington Hotel which was demolished. They could borrow the design language if they wanted and it would fit right in.

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  #163  
Old Posted May 27, 2020, 9:14 PM
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That would actually be quite fitting if they built it around Motor Row. Capone lived there for a few years in the Lexington Hotel which was demolished. They could borrow the design language if they wanted and it would fit right in.

And the apartment building that sits there now is called the Lex. Now I know why.
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  #164  
Old Posted May 27, 2020, 11:14 PM
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As much as a mob based Casino could sell, for.image purposes I think that Chicago should be distancing itself from any sort of crime image when it comes to things like this.

The casino is supposed to bring in money. To do that, you need to target everyone from a tourist to a local to a high roller (wherever they live). They need to be true to something being world class and not a dingy casino in the middle of Iowa.
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  #165  
Old Posted May 28, 2020, 1:03 AM
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Yeah we need to leave that kind of stuff to the history museum and whatever tacky gangster tour operators. Chicago's casino needs to reflect well on the city; considering how long we've struggled with a perception of high crime (whether mob or gang-related), and the very real connections between gambling and organized crime, the theming of the casino should not play into this.
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  #166  
Old Posted May 28, 2020, 2:29 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
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Yeah we need to leave that kind of stuff to the history museum and whatever tacky gangster tour operators. Chicago's casino needs to reflect well on the city; considering how long we've struggled with a perception of high crime (whether mob or gang-related), and the very real connections between gambling and organized crime, the theming of the casino should not play into this.
I basically agree. However, Capone-style, 1920's gang stuff is part of Chicago that we're never going to stop being associated with. Ever. And I'm not sure it would be a good idea to try. But seeing as how we're stuck with it, we should own it. I'm not saying a mob-themed casino is a good move, but I think places should in general highlight what makes them unique. Minneapolis shouldn't try to pretend that it isn't cold there, show people cross country skiing and generally not being sweaty. No one visits Houston for the ballet--Houston should promote the rodeo and strip clubs. Same for Chicago.
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  #167  
Old Posted May 28, 2020, 2:32 PM
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just call the style "old Chicago" and make it '20s themed. Same difference
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  #168  
Old Posted May 28, 2020, 3:22 PM
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I basically agree. However, Capone-style, 1920's gang stuff is part of Chicago that we're never going to stop being associated with. Ever. And I'm not sure it would be a good idea to try. But seeing as how we're stuck with it, we should own it. I'm not saying a mob-themed casino is a good move, but I think places should in general highlight what makes them unique. Minneapolis shouldn't try to pretend that it isn't cold there, show people cross country skiing and generally not being sweaty. No one visits Houston for the ballet--Houston should promote the rodeo and strip clubs. Same for Chicago.
We should not be actively promoting it in any way. We should not be glorifying criminal scumbags. It should be left as a footnote in this city's history and we should move away from that stuff. Chicago has so much more to offer than to be known as a place that romanticizes murderers.
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  #169  
Old Posted May 28, 2020, 11:22 PM
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They could add an "escape room" premise to it where you choose to be a good guy or a bad guy in the 20's and thats how you get out or in. Lol.
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  #170  
Old Posted May 29, 2020, 12:07 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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We should not be actively promoting it in any way. We should not be glorifying criminal scumbags. It should be left as a footnote in this city's history and we should move away from that stuff. Chicago has so much more to offer than to be known as a place that romanticizes murderers.
Agree - especially nowadays with so much negative attention on Chicago's crime. You know, like being one of the reasons why Amazon chose not to pick Chicago (whether or not it would be a deal in reality is another story). It is in the past and there's no reason to promote it unless you believe a crime lifestyle should be promoted. If anyone thinks that, then you shouldn't be ever saying a word about crime in the city.
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  #171  
Old Posted May 29, 2020, 2:51 PM
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It is in the past and there's no reason to promote it unless you believe a crime lifestyle should be promoted. If anyone thinks that, then you shouldn't be ever saying a word about crime in the city.
It is in the past and there's no reason to promote [Mayan Temples] unless you believe [ritual sacrifice] should be promoted. If anyone thinks that, then you shouldn't be ever saying a word about [tourism in Mexico.]

It is in the past and there's no reason to promote [old timey Western Town] unless you believe [the genocide of native Americans] should be promoted. If anyone thinks that, then you shouldn't be ever saying a word about [tourism in Arizona.]
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  #172  
Old Posted May 29, 2020, 2:55 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
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Originally Posted by HomrQT View Post
We should not be actively promoting it in any way. We should not be glorifying criminal scumbags. It should be left as a footnote in this city's history and we should move away from that stuff. Chicago has so much more to offer than to be known as a place that romanticizes murderers.
Every day that the residents of the Florida Keys don't rise up to protest the Pirates of the Caribbean ride in Orlando is another shameful day for this nation. Florida has so much more to offer than a place that romanticizes rape, sodomy, diluted rum and walking the plank.
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  #173  
Old Posted May 29, 2020, 4:02 PM
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Mayor Lightfoot on next steps on Chicago casino development....We will start process with focus groups, studies & surveys on location and desired amenities. "I see this as a large entertainment district" not just box of casino to maximize once in generation opportunity at revs...
I believe the mayor thinks of a very large casino like to these casino and resort projects. I believe that Goose Island is a perfect place that could host a very large Resort Casino, hotels and a 2,000 ft observatory tower which could house a beautiful panoramic restaurant.


MGM Grand Atlantic City. PRNewsFoto/MGM Mirage


http://www.casino-review.co/resorts-...ional-climate/


Resorts World Las Vegas http://http://www.splendorconcierge....rld-las-vegas/


The 2,000 ft observatory tower
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  #174  
Old Posted May 29, 2020, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum View Post
It is in the past and there's no reason to promote [Mayan Temples] unless you believe [ritual sacrifice] should be promoted. If anyone thinks that, then you shouldn't be ever saying a word about [tourism in Mexico.]

It is in the past and there's no reason to promote [old timey Western Town] unless you believe [the genocide of native Americans] should be promoted. If anyone thinks that, then you shouldn't be ever saying a word about [tourism in Arizona.]
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Every day that the residents of the Florida Keys don't rise up to protest the Pirates of the Caribbean ride in Orlando is another shameful day for this nation. Florida has so much more to offer than a place that romanticizes rape, sodomy, diluted rum and walking the plank.
Come on, those are incredibly weak strawman arguments there. The Mexicans are showcasing an ancient civilization (their ancestors) that includes an entire spectrum of good and bad along with cultural aspects such as food, music, architecture, art and more. And the Pirates of the Caribbean is a Disney Company spin off. If Disney wants to make an Al Capone movie then fine. The city of Chicago should not be promoting a gangster thug piece of trash like Al Capone in any way.
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  #175  
Old Posted May 29, 2020, 8:49 PM
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I'm sure there are better examples to come up with but come the F on. Incredibly weak arguments. Nice try though

Let's put it this way. Chicago's current image is one that has to do with high crime whether you like it or not. A government sponsored establishment going the route of glorifying the time of gangster violence is about the last thing they need to be pulling. The last thing they should be doing is putting their seal of approval on anything that directly has a theme of violence on it when the city is trying to already trying to lessen crime.

I'll bet most of my money that a mob/al capone themed casino will never happen in Chicago if the governments of Chicago and/or Illinois have anything to do with it. Would it bring in money? Maybe, but it's realistically a stupid idea given everything going on especially the last 4 years in the city and the image problems. I know people love to glorify and romanticize the gangsters of yesteryear but..not happening for this project.

They will pick something with a Chicago flair on it I'm sure, and it'll hopefully be a nice place but the Chicago flair is certainly not going to be Al f*cking Capone. They will use blues, jazz, etc music long before considering the other.
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  #176  
Old Posted May 29, 2020, 9:08 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
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The city of Chicago should not be promoting a gangster thug piece of trash like Al Capone in any way.
Again, I'm suggesting that it might not be a bad idea to deal with the reality such as it is, not as we'd like it to be. If you go to Japan and say you're from Chicago, they'll go "Al Capone! Rata-tat-tat" [finger guns]. I don't love that. But in the any-publicity department, it's foolish to assume that if you pretend that's not the case it will go away. People from out of town LOVE going to the Green Mill. For that matter, I love going to the Green Mill. And I love taking people to bars like the California Clipper (R.I.P) because it feels like you've stepped into something authentic that only exists quite like that in Chicago, even if it has no ties whatsoever to 1920's mafia. Las Vegas has a Mob Museum that is 60% about Chicago. People want to know where Dillinger was shot and where on Clark Street the St. Valentine's day massacre happened. Acknowledging that that stuff happened creates a sense of place, which you can't buy. As an example, I don't love the Catholic church because of the thousands of child rapes that have happened just in the churches I see every day. Way worse than Capone by any measure. But I would feel pretty bad if one of those churches gets torn down. On the one hand, thousands of child rapes. On the other hand, it's a pretty nice building and now that it's here, no reason to go crazy. The steeple makes the neighborhood look nice. I went to the Vatican two years ago. It was very nice to visit, despite it being the headquarters of an international child rape syndicate! Chicago's mob history is like that.

There's plenty of space between "glorifying a murderer" and acknowledging Chicago's rough and tumble, anything goes history from a century ago. Speakeasys, Flappers, bootleggers and the mob are all part of a zeitgeist that exists. You could throw a party with that theme and everyone would know what to wear and how to act. Since it's not going away, it probably isn't a bad idea to tap into a little bit of that mythology while, of course, not forgetting to avoid glorifying murder. You could drive a tractor between the space between those two concepts, so the marketing and publicity is a breeze to do with needing to get all self-righteous.
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  #177  
Old Posted May 29, 2020, 9:27 PM
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Nobody is denying that it would sell. I have had people in foreign countries do the same thing to me. But this is a government sponsored casino, essentially. The same governments that are not only trying to clean up the image but actually trying to clean up the crime itself. There's no way they're going to whore themselves out like this. If it was a private company then it would be a completely different story and I'm sure they'd be more open to it.

A 1920s theme would probably work for them as long as they aren't taking a hard line violence/mob type of angle to it. I think crime, even if it's of the yesteryear association, is still a very sticky situation with the government of Chicago and Illinois, and would bet most of my money that it's not something they're willing to do. Perhaps you do see a 1920s themed place, but my guess as you said it would be more centered around the idea of a speakeasy, jazz, etc and not specifically about the mob, Al Capone, etc.
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  #178  
Old Posted May 30, 2020, 3:38 AM
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Last summer the Sun-Times ran a series of articles by Ed Zotti titled “City at the Crossroads”, including one that talked about proposals for a casino in Chicago. I posted a link to the article at the time and in light of the renewed interest now, I’m posting it again.

Zotti says there are two ways to build a casino: the “island model” and the “London model”.

In the island model,
“the casino and related activity — typically a hotel, restaurants and bars, shops, entertainment venues, other attractions and parking — are designed as a single, self-contained complex. Patrons drive to the casino and don’t leave until they’ve spent their last dime hours later and drive home. They never set foot in the surrounding neighborhood and might as well have been visiting Madagascar. The great majority of U.S. casinos are designed this way ...”
Most of the U.S. urban casinos built in the latter part of the 20th century are island model developments, including the ones shown in Sky88’s post above. Today, many of these are seen as disappointments or failures (Atlantic City, Reno, etc.)

In the London model, the casino is put it in an existing entertainment district and designed so that it contributes to a lively street scene. He gives the London Hippodrome as an example. Here’s a picture.

Zotti also says the Thompson Center "might make a good casino — perhaps a spectacular one." I agree. The Thompson Center is one of the great Chicago buildings built in the past 45 years and I’d be very sad to see it sold and demolished. Repurposed as a casino / entertainment center, it could include hotels, restaurants, shops, cocktail lounges, sports bar, blues bar, theaters, bowling alley, etc. Maybe even a very tall observatory tower. All of this would be done in a way that maximizes interaction between the building and the surrounding downtown area. Wow.

I also think the block surrounded by Illinois, Rush, Hubbard and Wabash would make a fantastic site. I'd tear down the Realtor's building and widen the Plaza of the Americas (but leave 444 No Michigan). The main pedestrian entrance to the casino would be on the east side, facing the Tribune Tower. With hotel and residential above the casino, this would be a very large project; i.e., easily more than $1 billion.

So I don’t understand people who think that One Central or somewhere near the United Center or on Goose Island would be good sites. Despite what suburbanites say, these locations are not downtown. Or the 78. Or the Tribune site at Halsted and Chicago. None of these are good sites.

Finally, Zotti said he was greatly influenced by gaming and hospitality industry experts Andrew Klebanow and Steven Gallaway who co-authored a paper title “Casinos and the City”. This is an interesting overview of casinos in other cities - mostly U.S. - what’s worked well and what hasn’t.

Last edited by TR Devlin; May 30, 2020 at 11:00 PM.
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  #179  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2020, 9:42 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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^ casinos and the city

So I read that entire report. I find the following to be most interesting:

"The single greatest mistake that government can do is to designate a site for gaming that is inappropriate for an casino. Simply because government has identified a site that needs to be redeveloped does not make it compatible for an integrated urban casino resort."

"Rather, working with the developer, government should identify a zone within the city that would be designated as an entertainment/commercial development zone. This zone would have within it certain qualities that assure compatibility with surrounding businesses such as restaurants, nightclubs, hotels and theaters. The zone would also be near both mass transit and the region’s highways and the site should be of sufficient size to support a gaming enterprise. An urban casino stands the greatest chance of success when it is located on a site that is mutually compatible with surrounding businesses. "
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  #180  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 1:49 AM
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There will always be people who find the idea of a casino controversial, so the tendency is to put the casino in a site that's empty, unwanted and far from existing businesses or residents. If it fails, it doesn't cast a pall on surrounding areas and it can be developed into something else later.

Not saying that's right approach for success, but it's certainly the politically easiest approach. Put it in Motor Row, you're dealing with the PDNA people and the South lakefront Black community, neither of which want to be next to gambling. Both Ald. Dowell and Ald. King were clear that they don't want a casino anywhere in their wards.

I do think a casino could be integrated into The 78 and have a successful neighborhood grow up around it, assuming the casino is compact and well-designed. You might even be able to dedicate the casino revenue to The 78's infrastructure needs and let the TIF expire, kill two political birds with one stone.
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