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  #1041  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 2:56 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by Baronvonellis View Post
Otherwise, what does this building say about 2019 today? It seems ugly and oppressive. It seems to me that it says we are ants in an ant colony. How about some beauty in the building instead?
funny i dont see you saying this about the thousands of anonymous glass skyscrapers that make up our skyline and way of life. if youre gonna go this route, whats more oppressive and de-humanizing than this


Last edited by Via Chicago; Oct 30, 2019 at 3:11 PM.
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  #1042  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 3:13 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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and i should say i dont LOVE the design. but i can see where its coming from. and if its executed well with high quality worksmanship (which it will be given the individual and budget), i have no doubt it will become a landmark in its own right
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  #1043  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 7:10 PM
Baronvonellis Baronvonellis is offline
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
funny i dont see you saying this about the thousands of anonymous glass skyscrapers that make up our skyline and way of life. if youre gonna go this route, whats more c than this

I don't think I said that those building in the federal plasa aren't also de-humanizing. I would say they are as well, I think the building on that site there before was 1000% better, and would be a icon of city today. They tore it down for oppressive and de-humanizing buildings, that do have nice proportions at least. You can make modern buildings with classical orderly proportions, at least those look aesthetically nicer.

The dome of the old federal building was gilded which you can't tell from the black and white photos. The rotunda's 100 ft (30 m) diameter made it larger than that of the United States Capitol in Washington, D.C. Marble from Tennessee, Vermont, Maine and Italy was used in corridor floors, wainscoting and stairways. Floors in the rotunda were marble accented with mosaic tile while railings and elevator grilles throughout the building were wrought iron. Ceilings were framed by egg-and-dart mouldings. The four courtrooms on the sixth floor contained a series of murals depicting historical moments in the development of law. I wish I could have seen that building. I think a building like that would uplift people in any age and for all time.

I think a great example of a modern building that is uplifting is the Oslo city hall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_City_Hall

It is built with modern design and methods, but has beautiful artwork and murals that uplift the spirit of humanity, and give you a faith in government that is sorely lacking in the US. It's like a temple to humanism and good government. I would have liked to see Obama incorporate some elements from that building.

Last edited by Baronvonellis; Oct 30, 2019 at 7:21 PM.
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  #1044  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 8:15 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by Baronvonellis View Post
I think a great example of a modern building that is uplifting is the Oslo city hall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_City_Hall

It is built with modern design and methods, but has beautiful artwork and murals that uplift the spirit of humanity, and give you a faith in government that is sorely lacking in the US. It's like a temple to humanism and good government. I would have liked to see Obama incorporate some elements from that building.
we must have very different tastes because i dont see whats so great about that building. looks more like a county hospital from the outside. im sure the murals are nice but thats really not doing it for me from the outside. this is really your choice for non-oppressive? i mean this is giving me pure 1984 vibes.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Hall-north.jpg

Last edited by Tom In Chicago; Oct 31, 2019 at 3:14 PM. Reason: please post hyperlinks for off-topic images
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  #1045  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 8:36 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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compare that above building to the below.

like we can look at their prior designs and the hand they take in crafting something that feels light and airy and part of its environment, with an eye towards careful material selection and integration with nature and small details. i dont know how you think a firm that makes designs like this would ultimately wind up making something that would come off as overbearing

http://twbta.com/sites/twbta/images/...6_1204C-41.jpg

http://twbta.com/sites/twbta/images/..._1204C-15B.jpg

http://twbta.com/sites/twbta/images/..._8th_Floor.jpg

http://twbta.com/sites/twbta/images/...-I-TR-Shop.jpg

https://www.architecturalrecord.com/...dlinger-02.jpg

https://cooper.edu/sites/default/fil...ning-Zhang.jpg

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...each-house.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/vHSjM0RG/1250-08.jpg

http://twbta.com/sites/twbta/images/...-1453_05_1.jpg

you can say what you will but these are very thoughtful, welcoming, sensitive buildings. and i truly believe this building would be approached with the same level of sensitivity, even if it does happen to be tall for its surroundings. at this point i think this couple has earned the benefit of the doubt.

Last edited by Tom In Chicago; Oct 31, 2019 at 3:16 PM. Reason: please post hyperlinks for off-topic / non sourced images
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  #1046  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 2:52 AM
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ChiTownWonder ChiTownWonder is offline
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^^ The post above shows why this design would be perfect in the park. Sorry Baronvonellis but the example you show is too civic for something like this. This firm obviously knows how to integrate building with greenery, and as someone mentioned previously I have no reason to doubt the quality of construction and details considering its purpose. Personally I think this design would be great to experience from the park, like a man made butte. Its like an interactive monumental stone. all imo ofc
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  #1047  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:38 PM
Baronvonellis Baronvonellis is offline
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
we must have very different tastes because i dont see whats so great about that building. looks more like a county hospital from the outside. im sure the murals are nice but thats really not doing it for me from the outside. this is really your choice for non-oppressive? i mean this is giving me pure 1984 vibes.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Hall-north.jpg
That photo isn't that great on a gloomy day, in person it's a very beautiful and uplifting building.
Maybe this video helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=sGlx2B26bWk

https://www.nomadepicureans.com/wp-c...l-Exterior.jpg
https://www.nomadepicureans.com/wp-c...Markovskiy.jpg
https://www.nomadepicureans.com/wp-c...01-ruzanna.jpg

The Nobel Prize is given out in there every year, and everyone in Oslo wants to get married there.

I was just using as an example of a modern building that can be uplifiting.
I think lots of art deco buildings are uplifiting.
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  #1048  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:46 PM
Baronvonellis Baronvonellis is offline
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
compare that above building to the below.

like we can look at their prior designs and the hand they take in crafting something that feels light and airy and part of its environment, with an eye towards careful material selection and integration with nature and small details. i dont know how you think a firm that makes designs like this would ultimately wind up making something that would come off as overbearing

http://twbta.com/sites/twbta/images/...6_1204C-41.jpg

http://twbta.com/sites/twbta/images/..._1204C-15B.jpg

http://twbta.com/sites/twbta/images/..._8th_Floor.jpg

http://twbta.com/sites/twbta/images/...-I-TR-Shop.jpg

https://www.architecturalrecord.com/...dlinger-02.jpg

https://cooper.edu/sites/default/fil...ning-Zhang.jpg

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...each-house.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/vHSjM0RG/1250-08.jpg

http://twbta.com/sites/twbta/images/...-1453_05_1.jpg

you can say what you will but these are very thoughtful, welcoming, sensitive buildings. and i truly believe this building would be approached with the same level of sensitivity, even if it does happen to be tall for its surroundings. at this point i think this couple has earned the benefit of the doubt.
Lol, your comparing the worst amateur photo of a building to close up shots of buildings from professional design catalogs.

Those buildings don't inspire me, they are bland and dull. They strip out all decorative elements and human culture and leave you with weird random shapes. I'm talking about buildings that bring humanity and culture.

What does this one say about human culture?
https://cooper.edu/sites/default/fil...ning-Zhang.jpg

It could be in a suburb of Chicago, Cleveland, Taiwan, it happens to be in Mumbai. It's a building of nowhere and says nothing, it's blank and dehumanizing. It looks like a borg cube.
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  #1049  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 4:41 PM
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^^Classical architecture is the same. It can be anywhere. A Doric temple is a Doric temple is a Doric temple. Don't get me wrong, the loss of the old Federal Courthouse is a real loss, but honestly, that building could have been in NY or Boston or Cinninatti or Pittsburgh or St. Louis or Chicago, or Indianapolis or any city that was doing large scale government buildings in the late 19th, early 20th century.

Sure, there can be regional variations, but that can be true of any architectural style.
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  #1050  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 4:56 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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^^^ The old Federal Building is a loss because of the materials and craftsmanship which are unlikely to be replaced any time soon.

Stuff like the Stock Exchange, Garrick Theater, etc etc is where you have a loss that transcends those physical characteristics and enters a realm of the philosophical or spiritual. The old Federal Building did NOT come anywhere near that.

In other words there is a difference between demolishing a prairie style bungalow and demolishing Robie House...
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  #1051  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 5:14 PM
woodrow woodrow is offline
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Originally Posted by louisvanderwright View Post
^^^ the old federal building is a loss because of the materials and craftsmanship which are unlikely to be replaced any time soon.

Stuff like the stock exchange, garrick theater, etc etc is where you have a loss that transcends those physical characteristics and enters a realm of the philosophical or spiritual. The old federal building did not come anywhere near that.

In other words there is a difference between demolishing a prairie style bungalow and demolishing robie house...
+1
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  #1052  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 6:32 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by Baronvonellis View Post
Lol, your comparing the worst amateur photo of a building to close up shots of buildings from professional design catalogs.
im really not. i scoured google and honestly none of them are remotely flattering. its a big, hulking, bureaucratic looking building. hell, i even have a bit of a fondness for old big hulking bureaucratic buildings from that particular era. if you think Tsien's designs are "oppressive" and what you posted isnt, i think we're talking two completely different languages because i honestly have zero clue where your head is at and you appear to be simply applying random descriptions to random buildings that youre pulling out of a hat. you seem to gravitate towards outward symbology...coats of arms, statues, big ass giant seals, taperstries and murals. those things are fine in certain situations, but they do not somehow equal good architecture, nor are they in any way necessary for it.

Quote:
Those buildings don't inspire me, they are bland and dull. They strip out all decorative elements and human culture and leave you with weird random shapes. I'm talking about buildings that bring humanity and culture.
who said the shapes are random? how are they any more or less random than a "classic", formally structured building? in fact, their designs are in no way some Gehry mess of shredded steel and twisted canopies. in most cases theyre simply rectangles, which you claim to profess some love for.

Quote:

What does this one say about human culture?
https://cooper.edu/sites/default/fil...ning-Zhang.jpg

It could be in a suburb of Chicago, Cleveland, Taiwan, it happens to be in Mumbai. It's a building of nowhere and says nothing, it's blank and dehumanizing. It looks like a borg cube.
what does a "Chicago" building look like compared to a Cleveland building vs a Minneapolis building vs a NY building? woodrow already summed this up.

what that building says is that it respects its surrounding, is conscious of them, and that its intended purpose is not to stand out screaming "look at me!". it says, the important thing is the landscape and how that building fits into it without being rude or intruding. and if you take the time to actually think about it, that says a lot about the architect's view of culture and the way they choose to approach design.

what does a Rothko painting say? well, thats up for you to decide. but that doesnt mean it isnt saying something. the answer is simply coming from within.

if you dont like minimalism, hey thats fine. but i do find it endlessly hilarious youre singling out whats very clearly a maximalist building as your example of what would be appropriate for a contemplative park setting.

is this "dehumanizing" too?


https://minimalplan.files.wordpress....r-1k.jpg?w=584

yeah i dont think so.

basically Williams/Tsien buildings are like an Ozu or a Tarkovsky and you seem to want a George Lucas

Last edited by Via Chicago; Oct 31, 2019 at 6:51 PM.
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  #1053  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 7:43 PM
Baronvonellis Baronvonellis is offline
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
im really not. i scoured google and honestly none of them are remotely flattering. its a big, hulking, bureaucratic looking building. hell, i even have a bit of a fondness for old big hulking bureaucratic buildings from that particular era. if you think Tsien's designs are "oppressive" and what you posted isnt, i think we're talking two completely different languages because i honestly have zero clue where your head is at and you appear to be simply applying random descriptions to random buildings that youre pulling out of a hat. you seem to gravitate towards outward symbology...coats of arms, statues, big ass giant seals, taperstries and murals. those things are fine in certain situations, but they do not somehow equal good architecture, nor are they in any way necessary for it.



who said the shapes are random? how are they any more or less random than a "classic", formally structured building? in fact, their designs are in no way some Gehry mess of shredded steel and twisted canopies. in most cases theyre simply rectangles, which you claim to profess some love for.

what that building says is that it respects its surrounding, is conscious of them, and that its intended purpose is not to stand out screaming "look at me!". it says, the important thing is the landscape and how that building fits into it without being rude or intruding. and if you take the time to actually think about it, that says a lot about the architect's view of culture and the way they choose to approach design.

what does a Rothko painting say? well, thats up for you to decide. but that doesnt mean it isnt saying something. the answer is simply coming from within.

if you dont like minimalism, hey thats fine. but i do find it endlessly hilarious youre singling out whats very clearly a maximalist building as your example of what would be appropriate for a contemplative park setting.

is this "dehumanizing" too?


https://minimalplan.files.wordpress....r-1k.jpg?w=584

yeah i dont think so.

basically Williams/Tsien buildings are like an Ozu or a Tarkovsky and you seem to want a George Lucas
Yes, I think statues, big ass giant seals, tapestries and murals are art and represent the culture and art of the people who created them. The Oslo town hall at the entrance has walls of wood carvings showing Norse mythology which is awesome. They bring humanity and culture to the building. When you strip out the art you have nothing.

When I say classical proportions its the mathematical proportions and symmetry of a building. It could be in any culture, I didn't say it has to be only greek. But there are rules of symmetry that you can follow with different styles.

Rothko says nothing to me, I don't recognize it as art. It's 2 colors, an art palette perhaps. The start of another painting.

Japanese buildings are nice, but it's not my favorite style personally. I don't know who Ozu or Tarkovsky are. I love George Lucas movies.

If your worried about a building fitting into the landscape, all the Obama library does is scream look at me, I'm a giant stone monolith. It's the opposite of fitting in with the landscape.
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  #1054  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 7:45 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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I don't know who Ozu or Tarkovsky are. I love George Lucas movies.
neither of these things are surprising.
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  #1055  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 7:53 PM
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I've now had the pleasure of seeing 3 Williams/Tsien buildings in the past year (LeFrak Center in Brooklyn, Logan Center in Chicago, Asia Society in Hong Kong) and I will say they are among the most sensitive modernist architects working today. There are certainly recurring themes and strategies in their work, but it's always sensitive to context and the careful use and detailing of materials sets them apart from generic public buildings.

The LeFrak Center in particular is a good example for the Obama building, since it's also set in an Olmsted park.
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  #1056  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 2:19 PM
Jim in Chicago Jim in Chicago is online now
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
we must have very different tastes because i dont see whats so great about that building. looks more like a county hospital from the outside. im sure the murals are nice but thats really not doing it for me from the outside. this is really your choice for non-oppressive? i mean this is giving me pure 1984 vibes.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Hall-north.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baronvonellis View Post
That photo isn't that great on a gloomy day, in person it's a very beautiful and uplifting building.
Maybe this video helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=sGlx2B26bWk

https://www.nomadepicureans.com/wp-c...l-Exterior.jpg
https://www.nomadepicureans.com/wp-c...Markovskiy.jpg
https://www.nomadepicureans.com/wp-c...01-ruzanna.jpg

The Nobel Prize is given out in there every year, and everyone in Oslo wants to get married there.

I was just using as an example of a modern building that can be uplifiting.
I think lots of art deco buildings are uplifiting.
Oslo city hall you need to experience in person. That classic view in all the shots posted here isn't her best face and once inside you have a jaw dropping experience. My jaw doesn't drop easily, but when I entered the great hall I just stopped dead and gaped.
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  #1057  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 2:40 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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fair enough, i never disputed the interior might indeed be beautiful. i love old buildings. the point here seems to be that Baron rejects modern (or even traditional) minimalist design outright, so we're more or less going in circles.
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