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  #241  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2017, 12:07 AM
aquablue aquablue is offline
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
New York's place in the world isn't and hasn't been in question. This is but one of 3 major airports in the immediate area. And people will tell you, they care more about functionality and comfort than about any design or perceived place in the world.
NY's competitors (cities of similar status globally) build fancy beautiful terminals, basically all of them.

Last edited by aquablue; Sep 30, 2017 at 12:37 AM.
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  #242  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2017, 12:09 AM
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Are they ever going to start train services to LGA, JFK and EWR from Manhattan which don't require changing at Jamaica, etc and can run express?

It's so hard to get to NY's airports compared to other cities around the world. I think I tried taking NJ transit to EWR once and the AirTrain to JFK once. Now I refuse to fly to/from EWR and just pay for an Uber to JFK.
Not currently. You can take the JFK airtrain and LIRR. It works fine, it's just long. There are no plans for any Heathrow Express type of service at JFK or LGA as of now.

There was a plan but the NIMBY's quashed it. It was to run a subway through the neighborhoods of Astoria to LGA on elevated tracks, and that was a no-go.

There is another plan that could happen in the distant future, the idea of running a train through an old disused rail line in Queens that could potentially reach JFK from midtown (one-seat). But that is also burdened by NIMBY factors and lack of funding. There is also a problem with capacity at Penn Station that could void the whole thing. The NIMBY contingent want to turn the old rail line into a park.

Last edited by aquablue; Sep 30, 2017 at 1:18 AM.
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  #243  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2017, 2:21 AM
nyc_alex nyc_alex is offline
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
NY's competitors (cities of similar status globally) build fancy beautiful terminals, basically all of them.
I've been to 112 commercial airports worldwide. This is false. Yes some cities, mostly in Asia, have newer airports that are nice. Largely because they needed an airport and had the luxury of starting from scratch on wide open land.

London, Paris are no better. Probably worse.

Honestly the airports in Singapore, Hong Kong, Tokyo, UAE, Qatar are nice, but they're still airports. I don't particularly care at the end of the day and they have their own major flaws - really long walking times, far from the city they serve, too many remote stands. The new airport terminals coming online in the US are just as good or better in many ways.
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  #244  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2017, 12:54 PM
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  #245  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2017, 12:16 AM
aquablue aquablue is offline
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Originally Posted by nyc_alex View Post
I've been to 112 commercial airports worldwide. This is false. Yes some cities, mostly in Asia, have newer airports that are nice. Largely because they needed an airport and had the luxury of starting from scratch on wide open land.

London, Paris are no better. Probably worse.

Honestly the airports in Singapore, Hong Kong, Tokyo, UAE, Qatar are nice, but they're still airports. I don't particularly care at the end of the day and they have their own major flaws - really long walking times, far from the city they serve, too many remote stands. The new airport terminals coming online in the US are just as good or better in many ways.
You don't need to have been to many airports to know that NYC needs to improve big time. First, find a solution for better access to JFK and LGA. Two, improve the terminal configuration. Yes, many things can be done and should be done. NY needs a gateway that reflects its status.

Oh, and since you mention London, Heathrow is better now. I would put it above JFK due to the recent developments. T2 and T5, which I was in 2 years ago, are spectacular.

Last edited by aquablue; Oct 2, 2017 at 7:08 AM.
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  #246  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2017, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
NY's competitors (cities of similar status globally) build fancy beautiful terminals, basically all of them.
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Originally Posted by nyc_alex View Post
I've been to 112 commercial airports worldwide. This is false.

It's all nonsense anyway. People have a whole lot of reasons for visiting New York and wanting to visit New York. I wouldn't put to look at and admire an airport anywhere on that list, no matter how nice it may be. And New Yorkers, of course, couldn't give a shit.

NO, what people want (and need) in an airport is to get there as quickly as possible, get to their gates as quickly as possible, and to get out of there as quickly as possible. No one wants an airport that is falling down around them, obviously. But at the end of the day, there's a threshold to where "nice" begins, and no amount of increase above that is going to make a bit of difference. There's a lot that needs to be rebuilt in New York, let's not just waste money on trying to build something "fancy" out of a false need to impress.

LaGuardia needs to be rebuilt as a modern and efficient airport. People either want to get out of there quickly (to Manhattan for tourists, or home or everyone else), or on board their flights quickly (to wherever). If for some unfortunate reason you have to sleep there (airlines), no amount of fancy building is going to make you happy about it.
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  #247  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2017, 9:52 PM
aquablue aquablue is offline
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It's all nonsense anyway. People have a whole lot of reasons for visiting New York and wanting to visit New York. I wouldn't put to look at and admire an airport anywhere on that list, no matter how nice it may be. And New Yorkers, of course, couldn't give a shit.

NO, what people want (and need) in an airport is to get there as quickly as possible, get to their gates as quickly as possible, and to get out of there as quickly as possible. No one wants an airport that is falling down around them, obviously. But at the end of the day, there's a threshold to where "nice" begins, and no amount of increase above that is going to make a bit of difference. There's a lot that needs to be rebuilt in New York, let's not just waste money on trying to build something "fancy" out of a false need to impress.

LaGuardia needs to be rebuilt as a modern and efficient airport. People either want to get out of there quickly (to Manhattan for tourists, or home or everyone else), or on board their flights quickly (to wherever). If for some unfortunate reason you have to sleep there (airlines), no amount of fancy building is going to make you happy about it.
Many airports also in other countries are privatized, allowing for beautiful terminals to be built without spending public funds. Heathrow for example. it doesn't have to be an either or thing in NY.

And you can't deny that airport access is terrible compared to these competing global cities. Most of those have one seat rail from the airport into their CBD. It would behoove NY business attractiveness to catch up. Don't rest on your laurels in a global marketplace.

I think NY should care about its airports and the impression people have of them. They need to do better. You can't defend airports that are ranked at the bottom of the list for pax experience every year, that's inexcusable.
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  #248  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2017, 10:48 PM
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I think NY should care about its airports and the impression people have of them. They need to do better. You can't defend airports that are ranked at the bottom of the list for pax experience every year, that's inexcusable.
Obviously, we wouldn't be getting a rebuilt airport if the City and State (and most people who use it) didn't think it was time for it. Your ranting makes no sense.
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  #249  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2017, 12:08 AM
aquablue aquablue is offline
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Obviously, we wouldn't be getting a rebuilt airport if the City and State (and most people who use it) didn't think it was time for it. Your ranting makes no sense.
No need to be so rude, is that the way you try to end a conversation? My point was that the plans are just not good enough and don't measure up to what your competitors are doing -- where is your one seat ride to the airport for example, or capacity upgrades?


Your attitude is classic "resting on your laurels". We're NY, and that's enough for people to want to go there despite our second rate plans for infrastructure. That's the same attitude that won't get your Amazon HQ2 and will lose you other business to more eager upstart cities!

:>

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  #250  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2017, 9:05 AM
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Not currently. You can take the JFK airtrain and LIRR. It works fine, it's just long. There are no plans for any Heathrow Express type of service at JFK or LGA as of now.
The sentence in bold contradicts itself.
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  #251  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2017, 9:08 AM
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Originally Posted by nyc_alex View Post
London, Paris are no better. Probably worse.
I disagree with this, unless you're talking about Gatwick and Orly.

T5 and the new T2 at Heathrow are nicer than anything in NY's airports. T1 has been closed and T3 will soon be closed, so that both can be rebuilt. T4 is more like a JFK terminal, but I'm not sure I've ever used it (maybe Delta before they moved to T3, otherwise it's home to African and Asian flag carriers).

And both of these have much better transit connections into town (and in the case of CDG, a national network high speed rail station).
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  #252  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2017, 1:52 PM
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
No need to be so rude, is that the way you try to end a conversation? My point was that the plans are just not good enough and don't measure up to what your competitors are doing -- where is your one seat ride to the airport for example, or capacity upgrades?


Your attitude is classic "resting on your laurels". We're NY, and that's enough for people to want to go there despite our second rate plans for infrastructure. That's the same attitude that won't get your Amazon HQ2 and will lose you other business to more eager upstart cities!

:>

What are you going on about now? You say the airport needs to be rebuilt and modernized out of "third world" status, the airport is being rebuilt and modernized, and yet you still complain. If that isn't a rant, then I don't know what is.
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  #253  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2017, 4:07 PM
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I disagree with this, unless you're talking about Gatwick and Orly.

T5 and the new T2 at Heathrow are nicer than anything in NY's airports. T1 has been closed and T3 will soon be closed, so that both can be rebuilt. T4 is more like a JFK terminal, but I'm not sure I've ever used it (maybe Delta before they moved to T3, otherwise it's home to African and Asian flag carriers).

And both of these have much better transit connections into town (and in the case of CDG, a national network high speed rail station).
CDG is widely considered awful. In all my flying the worst (longest time from gate to gate) connection I ever had was at Heathrow. It has since improved with Star Alliance under one roof.

I took the PATH-> LIRR-> AirTrain yesterday. It was quick and comfortable. Not sure what people want? A single seat ride will cost billions for not much of a benefit. LGA and EWR are getting long overdue connections via PATH and AirTrain. It isn't ideal but there are good efforts in place to improve without spending insane amounts of money.

JFK terminals 4,5, and 8 are all modern and nice. I've been to "nicer" terminals and honestly don't care if I'm in one of the "nicer" terminals or JFK 4,5,8. Then again, I am good enough at flying that I spend very little time in airports. Basically get there 45 minutes before flight, go through precheck, walk right on the plane.

LGA is a shithole that I avoid, for sure. It's also domestic + canada, so who are we trying to impress? It is overdue to a renovation so thankfully it is getting one.
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  #254  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2017, 11:10 PM
aquablue aquablue is offline
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CDG is widely considered awful. In all my flying the worst (longest time from gate to gate) connection I ever had was at Heathrow. It has since improved with Star Alliance under one roof.

I took the PATH-> LIRR-> AirTrain yesterday. It was quick and comfortable. Not sure what people want? A single seat ride will cost billions for not much of a benefit. LGA and EWR are getting long overdue connections via PATH and AirTrain. It isn't ideal but there are good efforts in place to improve without spending insane amounts of money.
This highlights the typical American attitude right here and typical American excuses that I've been reading for years.

"The one-seat-ride option is too expensive and won't bring enough benefit" That's a joke, the benefit is real. The image factor is probably worth its weight in gold and the ability to attract new business who factor in airport quality and access. Also, the pride factor too. Having your competitors have better infrastructure should be enough to act. Ny'ers love to crow about their city being the World's Capital. Well, show it?
NYC can afford it and it should rise to the competition. After all, this is becoming the global standard in large world cities. Why would NY want to stoop to second rate solutions, especially given the way it advertises itself as one of, if not THE, top city in the world.

And CDG is beautiful. What NYC airport can match this?


Last edited by aquablue; Oct 4, 2017 at 12:33 AM.
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  #255  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2017, 11:13 PM
aquablue aquablue is offline
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
I disagree with this, unless you're talking about Gatwick and Orly.

T5 and the new T2 at Heathrow are nicer than anything in NY's airports. T1 has been closed and T3 will soon be closed, so that both can be rebuilt. T4 is more like a JFK terminal, but I'm not sure I've ever used it (maybe Delta before they moved to T3, otherwise it's home to African and Asian flag carriers).

And both of these have much better transit connections into town (and in the case of CDG, a national network high speed rail station).
del
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  #256  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2017, 11:20 PM
aquablue aquablue is offline
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The sentence in bold contradicts itself.
I explained the situation to you. The air train works fine. The length of time is an annoyance, but that's up to individual tolerances. You also didn't acknowledge anything I said about the current situation on the one seat ride option. I researched the issue for you personally to tell you the situation at hand and you instead decided to write a snarky post. Last time I'll bother, you clearly have little interest in NYC transport development despite asking for information on the subject.

Last edited by aquablue; Oct 4, 2017 at 12:36 AM.
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  #257  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2017, 11:26 PM
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What are you going on about now? You say the airport needs to be rebuilt and modernized out of "third world" status, the airport is being rebuilt and modernized, and yet you still complain. If that isn't a rant, then I don't know what is.
Yeah, I said it needs to match global standards. It doesn't - like having a proper one-seat-ride to the CBD. I would expect such things for a city that claims to be the world's capital - i.e, your signature. And LaGuardia is the smallest airport. I'm talking about the whole airport system which is sub par. JFK is an outdated airport design with several terminals overcrowded or having been built in the mid-century.

And again, you sound annoyed and come across as brusque. Chill out. I obviously want NY to do better for its own benefit.

Last edited by aquablue; Oct 4, 2017 at 12:37 AM.
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  #258  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2017, 11:55 PM
aquablue aquablue is offline
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post

T5 and the new T2 at Heathrow are nicer than anything in NY's airports. T1 has been closed and T3 will soon be closed, so that both can be rebuilt. T4 is more like a JFK terminal, but I'm not sure I've ever used it (maybe Delta before they moved to T3, otherwise it's home to African and Asian flag carriers).
They may be architecturally more impressive - with bigger floor areas and taller roof heights, but they are merely pretty sheds with skylights. Crowded shopping malls with an airport attached. Far from perfect, and can't match the top airport terminals of the world for innovative and beautiful design. They are extremely generic overall. They even retain you in the shopping area and only give the gate number right before the flight departs. The whole operation is run to make you spend as much money in the mall as possible. Pathetic and base tactics.

Last edited by aquablue; Oct 4, 2017 at 12:39 AM.
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  #259  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2017, 4:03 AM
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This highlights the typical American attitude right here and typical American excuses that I've been reading for years.
So taking cost into account is an excuse? That's insane!

You can only issue so much debt. The money allocated towards that takes away from other projects like a new subway line or a new bridge. The cost/benefit ratio is the most important thing! We can't issue unlimited bonds, ya know.
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  #260  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2017, 4:53 PM
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^^^

I just went through CDG - it's nice, but it isn't spectacular...
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