The 'Mountain Lion' Cities Rising in the U.S. West

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Of course some people don't go anywhere, sure. But that's not the point.
The people who do want to be active, are very active.
I don't ski, but if I did, I would definetely try the skiing and and beach in a day, sure. It's possible, as they say.

I hike and go to the beach within minutes. Hell, I can walk it.

Hike in Malibu/Pacific Palisades and then go on the bike trail on the beach. It's amazing. Then if I want to see city life, I wander into Santa Monica/Venice.

In many of the trails here there are signs providing instructions on how to yield if you're a hiker, mountain biker, or on horseback. Hikers are the funnest to mess with. They get really upset if you ride past them at anything faster than 1 mph.

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by homebucket

In many of the trails here there are signs providing instructions on how to yield if you're a hiker, mountain biker, or on horseback. Hikers are the funnest to mess with. They get really upset if you ride past them at anything faster than 1 mph.

share the trail
• Video Link

[Sawtooth]

The Idaho side of The Tetons looks different from the Wyoming side, both are beautiful. The Tetons are the state line for this section between Wyoming but are on the WY side. The Idaho side (the west side) is greener because of the rain/snow shadow the mountains create for the Wyoming side.

Here are some great photos but they are all copyrighted and licensed, so I'm posting the direct links.

All are from the Teton Valley, Idaho

https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/teton-valley-idaho

https://www.ricklouiephotography.com...d-teton-sunset

https://www.jsilkstonephotography.co...o-farm-country

https://www.tetonsprings.com/tetonsprings

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by glowrock

Wow, never in a million years did I imagine I'd see a mention of Marmolada in the Dolomitis, a place I know very well from my geology field camp in the Italian Alps during the summer of 2000. I actually did a little snowshoeing on Marmolada Glacier during one afternoon. The cable car up to the top of the glacier was spectacular!

Anyone heard of the village of Feltre? It's where my field camp was based...

Aaron (Glowrock)

Don't get me wrong. The Dolomites look absolutely stunning in pictures and they're definitely on my bucket list to visit someday, but I'm not sure how one can look at the Dolomites and then the Sierras and conclude that one is definitely inferior to the other. Objectively though, it's pretty clear the Sierras are of higher elevation, hence why it would appear there are less trees when you're over 3000 ft above the tree line.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Bleak, arid and flat . . . per Crawford:


https://www.google.com/search?q=teto...kGrP6Pnuc9vUtM

Exactly. Thank you.

Do people really believe Jackson Hole isn't an arid landscape? Or mostly flat?

It looks like cowboy country. Scrubland, barely any trees. Wyoming is flat, dry and bleak. And really freakin cold and windy. And Jackson Hole is comically expensive, like Malibu or the Hamptons on the prairie. The Tetons are pretty but they're a very small % of the landscape. Do people really think this is remotely comparable to the Lauterbrunnen Valley?

[Sawtooth]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Exactly. Thank you.

Do people really believe Jackson Hole isn't an arid landscape? Or mostly flat?

It looks like cowboy country. Scrubland, barely any trees. Wyoming is flat, dry and bleak. The Tetons are pretty but they're a very small % of the landscape. Do people really think this is remotely comparable to the Lauterbrunnen Valley?

It is arid but far from mostly flat. It is built against mountains, The Hobacks and of course The Tetons are directly to the west and The Gros Ventre Range rises directly to the south and east and are easily visible from the highway that parallels The Tetons toward Yellowstone. There are areas along the highway that appear flat compared to the looming mountains, but these "flat" areas do not define the area.

Not all of Wyoming is how you describe it. It's similar to Montana and Colorado, half of each state is mountains and the other half prairies.


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Py...4d-110.4668427

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Since this is a skyscraper forum and all, I would like to point out that the tallest point in the Dolomites is Marmolada, at 10,968 ft. Milan to this area is about 5 hours by car, so it's not like the Dolomites are right at the footstep of civilization. It's not any more accessible than Yosemite, or Tahoe, or Mammoth, or Whitney Portal (although they are obviously not accessible at the moment due to wildfires).

The Sierras, on the other hand, feature 26 peaks (with at least 500 meters of topographic prominence) above 10,968 ft, and overall, California has 35 total peaks taller than Marmolada. Yosemite itself, has a tallest point of 13,120 ft, at Mount Lyell, and overall 31 peaks of various prominence over 12,000 ft.

You realize that mountain height is measured from sea level, right?

The Rockies have much less dramatic elevation changes because the surrounding prairie landscapes already have very high elevations.

And what does Milan have to do with the Dolemites? That's the other side of Italy. No one claimed Milan had any relation to the Dolemites, but it is extremely close to stunning Alpine scenery.

Denver is 5,000 ft. higher elevation than Milan, BTW, despite being flatter and further from real mountains.

[mhays]

nm.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Exactly. Thank you.

Do people really believe Jackson Hole isn't an arid landscape? Or mostly flat?

It looks like cowboy country. Scrubland, barely any trees. Wyoming is flat, dry and bleak. And really freakin cold and windy. And Jackson Hole is comically expensive, like Malibu or the Hamptons on the prairie. The Tetons are pretty but they're a very small % of the landscape. Do people really think this is remotely comparable to the Lauterbrunnen Valley?

Jackson Hole, the town, is in a river valley and the valley is flat . . . And surrounded by peaks. In the valley are herds of elk. It’s beautuful. That’s why it’s expensive.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Crawford

And what does Milan have to do with the Dolemites?

An even better question is what do the Dolomites have to do with the mountain west?

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by AviationGuy

I've heard of mountain lions in the hills of Austin, but tons of coyotes, foxes, bobcats, deer, and just about anything else you can think of.

We have mountain lions on our roofs in my AZ neighborhood—and bobcats in our gardens (besides the jaguars and ocelots in the surrounding mountains).

It’s quite common for dog walkers in the arroyos to spot mountain lions besides occassionally having one (or, in one case I know of, a family of them) strolling on the roof.

[Atlas]

SLC/Ogden/Provo has a lot to offer, honestly. You get four distinct seasons, easy access to and beautiful views of incredible mountains, low humidity, a healthy and rapidly-growing economy, decent public transit, a great family environment, a convenient large international airport, generally low cost of living, 5-6 hour drives to 6-7 national parks and Vegas, and the alcohol laws have liberalized somewhat. Drought is a concern and wildfire smoke from CA has been dreadful this year but otherwise it can be very appealing, especially to people who enjoy hiking, climbing, skiing, fishing, etc.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Jackson Hole, the town, is in a river valley and the valley is flat . . . And surrounded by peaks. In the valley are herds of elk. It’s beautuful. That’s why it’s expensive.

And in the West, just about all settlements are found in valleys, because water flows downhill and sources of fresh water are found in the valleys. In the northern West, the climate is mild, winters aren't as harsh, rather mild in these valleys Salt Lake City, Boise are great examples.

Salt Lake City

visitUtah

Boise


Even Phoenix



And Tucson



30 miles from the valley floor in Tucson:

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by Crawford

You have much more dramatic topography in the Alps. Much steeper elevations, in a much more lush environment, and closer proximity to amenities.

Having grown up in proximity to the Alps, I think this colors my thinking. Most of the western mountains are arid and the mostly treeless elevations are quite gradual. Nice, but generally not stunning, like the Dolemites or the Lauterbrunnen Valley. You can live in Munich or Milan and have fantastic urbanity plus amazing scenery in proximity, or somewhere like Innsbruck and go mountain hiking on lunch break.

Skiing, though, yeah. Best skiing on earth. But I don't think skiing, which is declining in popularity, is the primary driver. If my life revolved around skiing, I could definitely see living around Whistler or Alta, though.

W0t, Lol.

This is anything but the truth. The Western US is GIGANTIC (nearly 1,200,000 square miles and that excludes Alaska and Hawaii). You're comparing relatively small geographic area of Europe to the GIGANTIC WESTERN UNITED STATES. The Alps are only about 80,000 square miles. Easy to cherry pick some spectacular one of a kind scenes from the Alps and then apply it to the 1,200,000 square miles of the West...lol



There are A LOT of areas in the West that offer all kinds of climates, elevations and levels of precipitation/aridness. There are desert areas in rain shadows and less than 100 miles away there are areas that get well over 1,000 inches of snow every winter and yes the West is an arid region, that's what makes the best snow on Earth, it's not that sludgy pasty heavy water content snow of the Northeast.

Btw, why did you bring up European mountains in a thread about cities in the US West? This isn't a compare and contrast Jackson Hole to Bern Switzerland discussion.

[Sawtooth]

This thread is hilarious. There are so many naive assumptions about places that are false. Some people here must not get out very often and apparently live in a bubble.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by homebucket

An even better question is what do the Dolomites have to do with the mountain west?

My point was that people pay insane prices to live in areas like Jackson Hole, and if you ask them why, it's the mountains.

In Bozeman you pay 3-4x for a home than you would pay in, say, Cincy, and the reasoning would be mountains. But Southern Germany doesn't have higher home prices than Northern Germany, even though Southern Germany has access to much more spectacular mountains, while Northern Germany has nothing. And actually many of the regions in the Alps are pretty cheap, due to poor job markets, but this doesn't seem to disincentive demand in the U.S.

So there's something unique about North American preferences, apparently.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

The western New York craft beer scene isn't on par with Colorado or northern California, but the wineries in the Finger Lakes and Chautauqua County can cover for that.

You have this backwards.

You can find good craft beer just about everywhere now, including western NY.

The wine, however, is absolutely terrible. Like undrinkable. The grapes grown in NY state and NW PA are good for juice and jellies and jams, etc... but the climate is far too wet and cold to produce good wines. They definitely cannot "cover for" anything.

[pj3000]

Damn, Boise looks fucking awful.

There's gotta be a more flattering pic than that one.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Damn, Boise looks fucking awful.

There's gotta be a more flattering pic than that one.

Gimme a break, I posted that at 6 am!

But yeah, that picture didn't turn out too great, sorry Boise, I know there are some many incredible scenes from the photo threads.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Yes, this is true too lol.

I can't do humidty anymore either. I'm white, and I just can't stand it. Ever since being in California, anytime I go back east it's harder to deal with. Luckily on my last Chicago trip, it wasn't humid outside of a day or two.

High humidity has not dampened the growth in Austin all these years. As someone said, it has to do with prices. I also think it has to do with the relative newness of some of these places, with more open land and newer structures, that make them more attractive than established places in the midwest/east that are cheap. It's like buying a brand new house in a brand new neighborhood, rather than an old house in an old neighborhood. I felt that way when I moved to Phoenix from Chicago in the 1980s (but it did quickly wear off for me as I wanted more cultural amenities so I moved back to Chicago).