Amazon HQ2

[masonh2479]

Originally Posted by the Genral

I found this while lurking around Atlanta's Amazon H2Q thread. Its worth watching...for what it is. BTW, check out their thread, some of the posters are quite entertaining if a not civilized. Amazon converation begins at 2:55
https://youtu.be/8bl19RoR7lc

If you have ever been on airliners.net, the Atlanta hq2 thread looks like an exact copy of that, lol.

I don't know if I have said this but this forum is by far the most civilized that I have been a part of, quite a welcome change!

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by masonh2479

If you have ever been on airliners.net, the Atlanta hq2 thread looks like an exact copy of that, lol.

I don't know if I have said this but this forum is by far the most civilized that I have been a part of, quite a welcome change!

Kevin and The ATX keeps us in line here.

[undergroundman]

Originally Posted by the Genral

I found this while lurking around Atlanta's Amazon H2Q thread. Its worth watching...for what it is. BTW, check out their thread, some of the posters are quite entertaining if a not civilized. Amazon converation begins at 2:55
https://youtu.be/8bl19RoR7lc

John Oliver is a clown for entertainment purposes only. He's not an economist. In his shtick, he creates strawman arguments using the worst examples of incentive programs, including the Noah's Ark project. These examples make for easy fodder.

Bottom line is Amazon has a choice of where to go. Cities need Amazon. Amazon doesn't need any particular city.

Amazon knows the value of what they have to offer. And they're going to sell it to whoever wants it the most. They're going to end up setting up in "good enough" city like Atlanta. Five to ten years from now after the Amazon effect takes hold and a large number of tech startups sprout up around Amazon and dwarfs the Austin scene, tech workers there will be asked if they would consider moving to Austin and their response will be, "not for any amount of money."

It's okay to be proud of your city, but let's not be arrogant about it. I grew up in Houston and have lived here off and on for a total of 19 years (visited quite a bit since early 90's). I've also lived in Silicon Valley and in Chicago. I've also visited/worked in numerous other cities. While I think Austin is a nice place, I don't think it justifies arrogance. When the mayor sends a letter stating that Austin will not offer Amazon anything, but instead asks what Amazon can offer us, that's arrogance.

brando, you forgot SAP and Infor in your Atlanta list of tech companies.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by undergroundman

John Oliver is a clown for entertainment purposes only. He's not an economist. In his shtick, he creates strawman arguments using the worst examples of incentive programs, including the Noah's Ark project. These examples make for easy fodder.

After looking at the anger spewing remarks on the Atlanta Amazon H2Q thread, I found this there and thought it was a good time for a little levity hence me adding ...for what it is. Somehow this competition for H2Q has gotten a bit too personal, especially among the debaters. And Amazon is just grinning at all the attention they are getting, as if they needed the exposure. I think the way they went about this is bs. I don't recall them doing this when they decided to build H1Q in Seattle. Its a freakin circus by design imo. If I want to build a HQ somewhere. I do the research, pick a location, present my proposal to the city of choice, ask for concessions, and if I don't get what I want, I go to the next city. I don't act like a whore soliciting proposals and may the best man win. Now this is just how I see it.
Its just my simple minded opinion. The only reason I would like to see it happen here is to get some really cool buildings from it. I'm only in it for the buildings and perhaps some cool architecture. Sorry for dumbing down the conversation. You may continue uninterrupted.

[masonh2479]

Completely agree with your reply, Genral, although we are no where near as bad as the ATL Hq2 thread, a little bit of humor is always welcome, no harm done.

I don't agree with amazon's handling of the hq 2 situation either but it really is the best way for the company to get the perfect deal. Whichever city will suck up the most gets a good look into.

I like that Austin isn't giving Amazon much, while it might be they ignore us because of that (probably not though), fine by me, Austin will be fine. The mayor gets two thumbs up from me, not arrogant at all. He's not willing for taxpayers to pay for Amazon to come, they would likely have no affect on the average person living in Austin that is positive.

I have no problem with Amazon coming, I just don't want Austin to suck up to them, and I'm glad they didn't.

Amazon doesn't need a particular city but how much do you want to bet they already have one in mind, set in stone unless an amazing deal shows up from another city.

Will tech workers ever say they don't want to move to Austin? As of now and the immediate future I would say no.

If Amazon doesn't come to Austin, the tech scene in Austin isn't going to simply vanish.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by undergroundman

They're going to end up setting up in "good enough" city like Atlanta. Five to ten years from now after the Amazon effect takes hold and a large number of tech startups sprout up around Amazon and dwarfs the Austin scene, tech workers there will be asked if they would consider moving to Austin and their response will be, "not for any amount of money."

Atlanta has a chance. It's got it's pros and cons (thought straight population growth isn't particularly one of them).

But the claim that if Austin doesn't get HQ2 it will be destroyed as a tech hub or desirable destination is just ludicrous.

Fact check: we don't have HQ2 _today_, and people still relocate from Seattle where they have HQ_1_.

Originally Posted by undergroundman

It's okay to be proud of your city, but let's not be arrogant about it. I grew up in Houston and have lived here off and on for a total of 19 years (visited quite a bit since early 90's). I've also lived in Silicon Valley and in Chicago. I've also visited/worked in numerous other cities. While I think Austin is a nice place, I don't think it justifies arrogance. When the mayor sends a letter stating that Austin will not offer Amazon anything, but instead asks what Amazon can offer us, that's arrogance.

So you don't even live in Austin? I suppose I could already tell, from your blatant ignorance about Austin's tech scene and history.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by undergroundman

It's okay to be proud of your city, but let's not be arrogant about it. I grew up in Houston and have lived here off and on for a total of 19 years (visited quite a bit since early 90's). I've also lived in Silicon Valley and in Chicago. I've also visited/worked in numerous other cities. While I think Austin is a nice place, I don't think it justifies arrogance. When the mayor sends a letter stating that Austin will not offer Amazon anything, but instead asks what Amazon can offer us, that's arrogance.

I don't believe he said that Austin would not offer incentives. He just said that Austin has a public process it has to follow. Plus, we still have no idea what the state incentives might be.

I don't see him as being arrogant. I see more of a quiet confidence. I appreciate it actually. I would hate to see him pulling all of the ridiculous stunts you see mayors of other cities doing. It wreaks of desperation. Desperation is always a turn off.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by the Genral

I think the way they went about this is bs. I don't recall them doing this when they decided to build H1Q in Seattle. Its a freakin circus by design imo. If I want to build a HQ somewhere. I do the research, pick a location, present my proposal to the city of choice, ask for concessions, and if I don't get what I want, I go to the next city. I don't act like a whore soliciting proposals and may the best man win. Now this is just how I see it.
Its just my simple minded opinion. The only reason I would like to see it happen here is to get some really cool buildings from it. I'm only in it for the buildings and perhaps some cool architecture. Sorry for dumbing down the conversation. You may continue uninterrupted.

It is a bit of a farce to some extent. I'm sure that the folks making the decisions already have a short list in mind. They may already even have a specific city they are leaning to. There are many places making proposals that will go straight to the circular file and never be looked at.

[OKTX]

This is a good article that walks through Atlanta's most likely location. The Gulch fits the qualities listed in the RFP very well, and it will be tough for Amazon to ignore the effort that Atlanta's local government is making to bring them to The Gulch - especially given Austin's lukewarm attempts at attracting them. Amazon is well aware of the local issues they are facing in Seattle, and I am sure they would like to avoid that with HQ2. Atlanta is sending a message they they will be welcomed in their city. Austin is not. I'd love for them to come to Austin, but I don't think it would be the best decision for Amazon.

https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/n...us-cities.html

[undergroundman]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Atlanta has a chance. It's got it's pros and cons (thought straight population growth isn't particularly one of them).

But the claim that if Austin doesn't get HQ2 it will be destroyed as a tech hub or desirable destination is just ludicrous.

Fact check: we don't have HQ2 _today_, and people still relocate from Seattle where they have HQ_1_.

I never said that Austin would be destroyed if Atlanta gets HQ2. Once again, you miss the point. My comment was in reference to paul's refusal to move to Atlanta because he claims the Atlanta tech scene's relative size is smaller than Austin's. If Amazon moves to Atlanta, you can bet the situation will be reversed (if it isn't already according to some rankings). Let me know if you need to me to further elaborate.

Fact check: Atlanta doesn't have Amazon _today_ and yet people are still moving from Austin to Atlanta. Amazon moving to Atlanta will not be a binary event. Please take a minute to think about that to soak the point before you respond.

So you don't even live in Austin? I suppose I could already tell, from your blatant ignorance about Austin's tech scene and history.

Let me rephrase my previous statement. I grew up in Houston and have lived here in Austin off and on for a total of 19 years. I thought it was clear from my previous posts that I live in Austin. But my fault for not clearly stating.

[masonh2479]

Originally Posted by undergroundman

I never said that Austin would be destroyed if Atlanta gets HQ2. Once again, you miss the point. My comment was in reference to paul's refusal to move to Atlanta because he claims the Atlanta tech scene's relative size is smaller than Austin's. If Amazon moves to Atlanta, you can bet the situation will be reversed (if it isn't already according to some rankings). Let me know if you need to me to further elaborate.

Fact check: Atlanta doesn't have Amazon _today_ and yet people are still moving from Austin to Atlanta. Amazon moving to Atlanta will not be a binary event. Please take a minute to think about that to soak the point before you respond.



Let me rephrase my previous statement. I grew up in Houston and have lived here in Austin off and on for a total of 19 years. I thought it was clear from my previous posts that I live in Austin. But my fault for not clearly stating.

If Amazon moves to Atlanta I can't see people saying they don't want to move to Austin. Not to be rude to Paul but I don't get why he wouldn't consider moving to Atlanta, it is a nice city with a lot going for it. Both Atlanta and Austin have a large tech scene as is, both cities will continue to grow regardless of Amazon.

Amazon's new hq will be a global event, boosting ops around the world. New offices will continue to sprout up, cities won't be overlooked just because they didn't get hq2.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by undergroundman

I never said that Austin would be destroyed if Atlanta gets HQ2.

"Five to ten years from now after the Amazon effect takes hold and a large number of tech startups sprout up around Amazon and dwarfs the Austin scene, tech workers there will be asked if they would consider moving to Austin and their response will be, "not for any amount of money.""

Originally Posted by undergroundman

Once again, you miss the point. My comment was in reference to paul's refusal to move to Atlanta because he claims the Atlanta tech scene's relative size is smaller than Austin's. If Amazon moves to Atlanta, you can bet the situation will be reversed (if it isn't already according to some rankings).

It isn't an issue of "relative size". It's an issue of critical mass and viability.

Austin's tech is a smaller size than SF, SV, Seattle. No one disputes that.
But it's large enough to be self supporting and viable. People are still willing to move here from those places.

You claim Atlanta getting HQ2 would change that. So obviously you're either claiming that Atlanta getting HQ2 would make it bigger in tech than SV or that Austin not getting HQ2 would destroy it.

Originally Posted by undergroundman

Fact check: Atlanta doesn't have Amazon _today_ and yet people are still moving from Austin to Atlanta.

About a hundred last year. And of those, how many for the tech industry?

Originally Posted by undergroundman

Let me rephrase my previous statement. I grew up in Houston and have lived here in Austin off and on for a total of 19 years. I thought it was clear from my previous posts that I live in Austin. But my fault for not clearly stating.

Hard to tell since literally every single one of your posts on this board (all 22 of them) have been bashing Austin from the get go.

[undergroundman]

Originally Posted by masonh2479

If Amazon moves to Atlanta I can't see people saying they don't want to move to Austin. Not to be rude to Paul but I don't get why he wouldn't consider moving to Atlanta, it is a nice city with a lot going for it. Both Atlanta and Austin have a large tech scene as is, both cities will continue to grow regardless of Amazon.

Amazon's new hq will be a global event, boosting ops around the world. New offices will continue to sprout up, cities won't be overlooked just because they didn't get hq2.

If, for the sake of argument, Atlanta's scene is indeed smaller, then Paul's concerns are valid. Many people, not all, share the same concerns especially if they are the job hopping type. Just to put things into perspective for you. When I decided to move back to Austin from San Fran back in the mid 2000's, my collegues looked at me perplex "Austin??? Why in the world would you move back there?" There will always be people that prefer to be in the larger market where the good jobs are readily available. People will still move from Atlanta to Austin, but those like Paul will not. Not all tech people have the same priorities.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by masonh2479

If Amazon moves to Atlanta I can't see people saying they don't want to move to Austin. Not to be rude to Paul but I don't get why he wouldn't consider moving to Atlanta, it is a nice city with a lot going for it. Both Atlanta and Austin have a large tech scene as is, both cities will continue to grow regardless of Amazon.

undergroundman's "not for any amount of money" comment came off as kind of rude, but it's not rude that you don't understand. Although, I don't get why you don't understand. I thought that I've explained well enough that their tech scene doesn't match that of top notch tech areas.

Can anyone find me a software engineer that looks to Atlanta for tech leadership? Or one that refutes my experience and is going to tell me that I'm full of it? I don't know of any. I've worked with engineers that have left Austin jobs for other jobs in the Bay Area, Seattle, Boston. I've never heard of ANY leaving for a job in Atlanta...NONE.
I've also spent enough time in Atlanta to know that there are other cities I would much prefer to be in.

As far as the "not for any amount of money" comment, that's not what I said. I'm pretty sure I said that they couldn't pay me enough (to make a difference). i.e. The pay there is less than it is here. Nor will it become significantly higher than Austin.

Originally Posted by masonh2479

Amazon's new hq will be a global event, boosting ops around the world. New offices will continue to sprout up, cities won't be overlooked just because they didn't get hq2.

Very true.

[Sigaven]

So has this become a thread about Amazon HQ2 in Atlanta?? I thought this was the Austin sub.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by Sigaven

So has this become a thread about Amazon HQ2 in Atlanta?? I thought this was the Austin sub.

Yea. I'm with ya. I'm ready to be done with this back and forth.

[undergroundman]

Originally Posted by Novacek

"Five to ten years from now after the Amazon effect takes hold and a large number of tech startups sprout up around Amazon and dwarfs the Austin scene, tech workers there will be asked if they would consider moving to Austin and their response will be, "not for any amount of money.""



It isn't an issue of "relative size". It's an issue of critical mass and viability.

Austin's tech is a smaller size than SF, SV, Seattle. No one disputes that.
But it's large enough to be self supporting and viable. People are still willing to move here from those places.

You claim Atlanta getting HQ2 would change that. So obviously you're either claiming that Atlanta getting HQ2 would make it bigger in tech than SV or that Austin not getting HQ2 would destroy it.

Yea, you're really confused about something and I'm not sure what it is. I never made any comparison between Atlanta and SV. I never said Austin would be destroyed if it didn't get HQ2.

About a hundred last year. And of those, how many for the tech industry?





Hard to tell since literally every single one of your posts on this board (all 22 of them) have been bashing Austin from the get go.

Not bashing. I'm just trying to put things into perspective for everyone and say that we as a city need to approach this opportunity with some humility and not come from a place of arrogance. While Austin has a lot to offer, others are offering billions in incentives. We turn around and effectively say that the intangibles that we have to offer are worth more others' intangibles plus their billions. On top of that, Austin wants to know what Amazon can offer Austin for the privilege of relocating here.

[paul78701]

One more point. Another reason the likes of Apple, Facebook, Google, Amazon, and others are expanding here is that it is difficult to pull engineers out of Austin. There is a good tech scene here and people really do like being in Austin (whether they're in tech or not). The aforementioned companies already know these things.

[Austin1971]

Ultimately I think the location of HQ2 will boil down to power and politics nationally. I think Bezos can accomplish more in Texas than Georgia when it comes to political influence. I believe he wants to change and shape the future of Texas politics and he can best do that with HQ2 located in Texas. Also I find it very odd that there has been almost no chatter from the politicos here in Austin about HQ2. Something is brewing behind the scenes.

[We vs us]

Originally Posted by Austin1971

Also I find it very odd that there has been almost no chatter from the politicos here in Austin about HQ2. Something is brewing behind the scenes.

I think this is actually one of the biggest tells.