NEW YORK | 1 Manhattan West | 995 FT | 71 FLOORS - Page 18

SkyscrapersOfNewYork · #**341** Posted **Dec 8, 2010, 11:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian.odonnell20

Whats that tower in the middle? Is that an older version of 3 Hudson Boulevard?

no its the Sherwood Equities Tower

brian.odonnell20 · #**342** Posted **Dec 9, 2010, 2:27 AM**

o what's the story on that ??

NYguy · #**343** Posted **Dec 9, 2010, 4:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nim3

Does anybody know if this project got approved???????

I posted the specifics of the site just a couple of post above yours. They would only need approvals to make the project larger than it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian.odonnell20

o what's the story on that ??

Sherwood Equities wavered between office or hotel at a time when the State was pushing an expanded Javits Center, but specifily talked of plans for the office tower, which is what it remains now. It's one of the so called "four corners" towers (along with the Girasole, WPC site, and McDonald's).

As seen in Hudson Yards zoning, that particular tower is at site 706B, not far from Manhattan West, which is at 729 A&B.

meh_cd · #**344** Posted **Dec 9, 2010, 3:18 PM**

I still wish that MSG would be demolished and a beautiful tower would be built on that spot. There were renders a few years back - I'm sure you know what I'm talking about NYGuy - and the render looked incredible. I'm not familiar with the air rights on the MSG site, so is it even possible at some point in the future? Any design, that is. Not just the twin tower render I'm talking about.

NYguy · #**345** Posted **Dec 9, 2010, 3:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by meh_cd

I still wish that MSG would be demolished and a beautiful tower would be built on that spot. There were renders a few years back - I'm sure you know what I'm talking about NYGuy - and the render looked incredible. I'm not familiar with the air rights on the MSG site, so is it even possible at some point in the future? Any design, that is. Not just the twin tower render I'm talking about.

I know what you mean. There were a few versions of that, one shown here...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=163351

However, due to the nature of building over Penn Station, the team of Related and Vornado started to back away from building directly over the station and transferring the air rights around the site. Once Cablevision decided not to move to a new Garden, choosing the renovation instead, hope of a complete rebuilding of Penn Station dissipated. As a result, talk of transferring any development rights has stalled. There will be some development rights due to the transformation of the Farley (Post Office) building accross the street. Combined with other development rights, it will result in the Penn East and Penn West towers, on either side of 1 Penn Plaza.

JayPro · #**346** Posted **Dec 10, 2010, 4:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

...will result in the Penn East and Penn West towers, on either side of 1 Penn Plaza.

It (1PP) would go from sore thumb on the skyline to the centerpiece of an interesting study in contrasts

Dac150 · #**347** Posted **Dec 10, 2010, 4:39 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayPro

It (1PP) would go from sore thumb on the skyline to the centerpiece of an interesting study in contrasts

I’m talking way down the road, but I wouldn’t rule out a reclad of both 1 & 2 Penn Plaza once most of this development commences.

Crawford · #**348** Posted **Dec 10, 2010, 6:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by meh_cd

I still wish that MSG would be demolished and a beautiful tower would be built on that spot.

MSG will eventually be demolished and replace with huge towers, but not now.

The site has nearly 6 million square feet of air rights.

NYguy · #**349** Posted **Dec 10, 2010, 11:42 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford

MSG will eventually be demolished and replace with huge towers, but not now.

The site has nearly 6 million square feet of air rights.

The problem is, there's nowhere left for MSG to move, not even the railyards (yeah, I believe Dolan would have the gall to try that). It could be decades before another oppurtunity comes to move the Garden, and even then the question is where? It's the reason the developers are lookin to transfer those development rights to the surrounding area. Meanwhile, any chance at moving the Garden to Farley is slip-slip-slipping away...
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...nihan-station/

RobertWalpole · #**350** Posted **Dec 10, 2010, 12:55 PM**

If Dolan is spending $850m to renovate MSG, he won't move it for at least 20 years. The city should rescind MSG's tab break.

SkyscrapersOfNewYork · #**351** Posted **Dec 10, 2010, 3:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

The problem is, there's nowhere left for MSG to move, not even the railyards (yeah, I believe Dolan would have the gall to try that). It could be decades before another oppurtunity comes to move the Garden, and even then the question is where? It's the reason the developers are lookin to transfer those development rights to the surrounding area. Meanwhile, any chance at moving the Garden to Farley is slip-slip-slipping away...
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...nihan-station/

true you could always leave the garden where it is and build office towers that have the garden incorporated into their designs.

Dac150 · #**352** Posted **Dec 10, 2010, 5:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford

MSG will eventually be demolished and replace with huge towers, but not now.

I would say not in our lifetimes; there’s simply nowhere at this point to put a new stadium on the island. With renovations, the arena will remain very viable for years to come; but it needs to be overhauled.

The air right will most likely be transferred to neighboring locations.

Dac150 · #**353** Posted **Dec 10, 2010, 5:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyscrapersOfNewYork

true you could always leave the garden where it is and build office towers that have the garden incorporated into their designs.

The area will have to be focused around MSG, considering developers will be benefiting from the site’s air rights.

Crawford · #**354** Posted **Dec 10, 2010, 7:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertWalpole

If Dolan is spending $850m to renovate MSG, he won't move it for at least 20 years. The city should rescind MSG's tab break.

They renovated MSG something like 12 years ago, so it looks more like a 10-year cycle.

So maybe the site will be redeveloped a decade from now.

But what I don´t understand is why they are renovating. The site is MUCH more valuable for office towers than for an arena.

The current arena, even after a renovation, will still have the same fundamental problems. They need a brand new arena, not a renovated one.

And obviously no arena can produce the revenues comparable to 6 milion square feet of Manhattan office space.

Even in this economy, they could sell the site for well over a billion, which would easily fund a new arena somewhere else.

Crawford · #**355** Posted **Dec 10, 2010, 7:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dac150

I would say not in our lifetimes; there’s simply nowhere at this point to put a new stadium on the island. With renovations, the arena will remain very viable for years to come; but it needs to be overhauled.

The air right will most likely be transferred to neighboring locations.

I would be shocked if that dump of an arena is there in 15 years. The Barclays Center will be the best arena on the planet, and will take tons of revenue, even if the Brooklyn location is somewhat less central than MSG.

But you are correct that the office towers can still be constructed AND you can keep the arena. Just transfer the air rights to nearby underdeveloped sites, and you could build massive towers.

Dac150 · #**356** Posted **Dec 10, 2010, 8:38 PM**

A main factor that will keep that arena standing is location or the lack of it for something new. Upkeep and overhaul can compromise.

NYguy · #**357** Posted **Dec 10, 2010, 11:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford

what I don´t understand is why they are renovating. The site is MUCH more valuable for office towers than for an arena.

The current arena, even after a renovation, will still have the same fundamental problems. They need a brand new arena, not a renovated one.

Even in this economy, they could sell the site for well over a billion, which would easily fund a new arena somewhere else.

And those are the key words - somewhere else. They would be fools to leave Manhattan, which is extremely unlikely. It also wouldn't be wise to move away from the country's best public transit access. Moving to Farley would have been the best of both worlds. But the Dolans threw a temper tantrum now that Bloomberg says they shouldn't be getting that tax break (Bloomberg is still mad over the stadium war with Cablevision). Added to the fact that funding for the full overhaul of Penn Station was nowhere in site, and the inability of the governors of New York to get that project moving in a timely fashion, they simply decided to stay put.

But I don't want to take this thread any further off course. The discussion can continue here...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=163351

or here...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=123575

STR · #**358** Posted **Dec 21, 2010, 4:28 AM**

SkyscrapersOfNewYork · #**359** Posted **Dec 21, 2010, 4:35 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by STR

STR · #**360** Posted **Dec 21, 2010, 4:46 AM**

Enjoy. Those buildings are going to stay in the background for the time being since there's next to zero info out there on them.