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  #841  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 7:47 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Connor is great but other than the skating, Lemieux has him beat in overall talent. Heck, Lemieux probably has everyone in the history of the game beat on overall natural talent. Gretzky had the superior IQ.

If Connor was playing in 95, he wouldn't have the composite stick or the skates that allow players the superior skating and pivoting of today.

Last edited by blueandgoldguy; Mar 16, 2023 at 8:02 PM.
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  #842  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 7:55 PM
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Man an expansion team and a new arena for a 2nd Toronto team would likely be $1.5 billion easy and that would be US dollars. $1 billion US for a team and at least $650 million Cnd for an arena.
A 2nd NHL team in the GTA could easily eclipse $2 billion.

-$750-800 million for an 18,000 seat arena
-$700 million in expansion fees
-$500+ million encroachment fee to the Maple Leafs
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  #843  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 7:56 PM
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Connor is great but other than the skating, Lemieux has him beat in overall talent. Heck, Lemieux probably has everyone in the history of the game beat on overall naturally talent. Gretzky had the superior IQ.

If Connor was playing in 95, he wouldn't have the composite stick or the skates that allow players the superior skating and pivoting of today.
Everyone has access to the same equipment today and McDavid is still head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of the combination of speed, handling, and acceleration. Just because he wouldn't be pulling off the exact same moves 30 years ago doesn't mean the gap between him and everyone else wouldn't exist.
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  #844  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 7:58 PM
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Connor Hellebuyck will have to drag the NHL Jets kicking and screaming into the playoffs, considering he always seems to be bailing them out.

It's going to be a battle between Winnipeg, Nashville, and Calgary for that last Wildcard spot.
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  #845  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 8:09 PM
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Everyone has access to the same equipment today and McDavid is still head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of the combination of speed, handling, and acceleration. Just because he wouldn't be pulling off the exact same moves 30 years ago doesn't mean the gap between him and everyone else wouldn't exist.
That same gap existed between Lemieux and Gretzky and the rest of the NHL. The only exception might be Jagr who was a near-generational player himself. Imagine what those players would do with today's equipment, training and nutrition regimes.

Take a look at Gretzky's 1986-87 season (well pretty all his seasons in the 80s) when scoring dipped a bit. Gretzky had 183 points and the next closest player had 108 points and that was his teammate! It really puts McDavid's accomplishments into perspective.
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  #846  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 8:56 PM
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That same gap existed between Lemieux and Gretzky and the rest of the NHL. The only exception might be Jagr who was a near-generational player himself. Imagine what those players would do with today's equipment, training and nutrition regimes.
Those players today would be facing better defensive players today and MUCH better goaltending - especially when compared to the 80s. Go on youtube and check out how poor the goaltending was. It's actually quite comical. Goalies back in the 70s/80s wouldn't even make the team as a backup nowadays.
Gretzky and Lemieux feasted off the poor goaltending.
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  #847  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2023, 8:58 PM
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It's impossible to compare players from across generations due to changes in the game. If we plopped down an AHL player in 70s NHL they'd probably put up Gretzky numbers, but we can't do that and that's not a reasonable idea to consider. All we have are players at the time or in the decade and that's about it.
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  #848  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 3:09 PM
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So difficult to compare. I'm just enjoying the season McDavid is having. He's up to 41st all-time now and 51st for goals.

Big win for the Oilers last night as well against Dallas. The West is really wide open for pretty much anyone. It is going to be hard to pick playoff rounds this year.
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  #849  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
Everyone has access to the same equipment today and McDavid is still head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of the combination of speed, handling, and acceleration. Just because he wouldn't be pulling off the exact same moves 30 years ago doesn't mean the gap between him and everyone else wouldn't exist.
Not sure about that. There were some amazing skaters who could do a lap at the all star game in a similar amount of time as Connor 20 years ago. Acceleration though...maybe, although 20 - 30 year old equipment may not have allowed Connor to accelerate as quickly as he can today. Handling? As in handling the puck? Plenty of players from the past handled the puck as good or better than Connor.

He also wouldn't separate himself from Lemieux and Gretzky if playing in the same era. Both had better IQs and Lemieux better overall talent.
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  #850  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 10:51 PM
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Those players today would be facing better defensive players today and MUCH better goaltending - especially when compared to the 80s. Go on youtube and check out how poor the goaltending was. It's actually quite comical. Goalies back in the 70s/80s wouldn't even make the team as a backup nowadays.
Gretzky and Lemieux feasted off the poor goaltending.

80s hockey had a better talent pool than people give it credit for as the competition of the WHA was eliminated freeing up many NHL quality players to play in the NHL. We also saw an influx of talented European players come to North America that were not an option prior to the 70s. The number of registered hockey players in Canada was also incredibly large so there was a large talent pool from which to draw.

Some of the reasons goaltending was bad was due to the heaviness of pads allowing for a lot less mobility, the size of the protective pads which is lot smaller than today's michelin men, the skates which allowed for a lot less lateral mobility, and the lack of protective padding on the inside of the goalie pads that discouraged goalies from going down on their knees on a consistent basis to cover the lower part of the net unless they wanted to destroy their knees. This has been discussed in detail by many excellent posters on the history section of the hall of fame boards.

When goalies started to see technological advantages by the 90s, a slightly out-of-his prime Gretzky with a bad back was still dominating winning a few point scoring titles while a prime Lemieux dominated (see 150 points in 70 games in 95-96). A nearly broken Gretzky at 37 years of age finished 3rd in NHL scoring in the dead puck era while a 35 year old Lemieux came back from a 3.5 year retirement with a bad back in the middle of the dead puck era in 2000 and had the highest points per game average in the NHL...all this in the modern goalie era with modern goalie equipment.
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  #851  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 10:53 PM
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So difficult to compare. I'm just enjoying the season McDavid is having. He's up to 41st all-time now and 51st for goals.

Big win for the Oilers last night as well against Dallas. The West is really wide open for pretty much anyone. It is going to be hard to pick playoff rounds this year.
Indeed it is fun to watch. It helps that goals per game has increased to its highest point since the pre-dead puck era. Many players are pacing for 100 plus points this year which is exciting. Offense sells.
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  #852  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2023, 2:55 AM
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Can we get rid of the Draft Kings commercials and sponsored content from the hockey broadcasts? Especially because it’s “Ontario only” but it’s being crammed down our throats during Canucks games on BC-specific channels.

I don’t know what a same day parlay is. I don’t want to know.
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  #853  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 3:54 AM
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Yesterday was a fun day + a nice W.

























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  #854  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 8:20 PM
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^ Nice pics, cold! Thanks for posting them... looks like a great time.
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  #855  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 8:45 PM
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I went to a Kraken game in January (vs. Calgary), I loved it. Great arena and the Kraken team has caught on with local support very quickly.

Only complaint - US$6.00 for a bottle of water. But I know that's not unique to that arena either.
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  #856  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 2:07 PM
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A good comeback, but terrible goaltending/d-zone.

Ekholm is sure looking good though and multi-role.
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  #857  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 2:55 PM
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Ouch Calgary. Just ouch. 3 shots on goal in the first period.
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  #858  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 3:50 PM
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I don't think so. If anything, I trust them more, and the L.A. Group the least.

Remington sees an opportunity to develop a district around a LeBreton Flats arena. They could never get that sort of prime real estate deal in Downtown Toronto. Markham, I think was the best they could hope for at the time. On top of that, they want to 70 acres in Kanata.

Having Reynolds as part of the bid further solidifies the Sens' place in Ottawa. He has ties to Ottawa and wants to produce another "Welcome to Wrexham" rags to richesses type documentary with the Sens.



I mean, it's the same general idea with Ottawa. $1 Billion for the team and building a new arena. Difference is the nearly 70 acres of land in Kanata that can be redeveloped or flipped (at a value of about $200 million).
Remington doesn't need more property in the GTA. They own hundreds of acres worth billions. An arena district on their downtown Markham holdings will increase the inflated York Region values even higher. (and they can still flip Kanata)

Ryan Reynolds in partnership with Remington is proposing a Markham connection in the largest film studio in Canada.

This forum tends to see everything in black or white. IMO, The Senators moving to Markham is extremely unlikely. My point is that I have no doubt the Remington Group bid is giving the processes in moving the team from Ottawa into the Maple Leafs territory thought. That's not something you want from new ownership.

There's 0% of an expansion team being awarded in the GTA. NHL interests are to expand territory. The only chance of a second team is to move an existing team.
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  #859  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 4:12 PM
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Remington doesn't need more property in the GTA. They own hundreds of acres worth billions. An arena district on their downtown Markham holdings will increase the inflated York Region values even higher. (and they can still flip Kanata)

Ryan Reynolds in partnership with Remington is proposing a Markham connection in the largest film studio in Canada.

This forum tends to see everything in black or white. IMO, The Senators moving to Markham is extremely unlikely. My point is that I have no doubt the Remington Group bid is giving the processes in moving the team from Ottawa into the Maple Leafs territory thought. That's not something you want from new ownership.

There's 0% of an expansion team being awarded in the GTA. NHL interests are to expand territory. The only chance of a second team is to move an existing team.
I am concerned with the Reynolds/Remington studio proposed in Markham. You'd think they want to wait and see if they are awarded the privilege to buy the Sens first.
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  #860  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2023, 1:40 PM
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Kudos to Alex Ovechkin for setting the most 40 goal seasons record.
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