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  #48021  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2020, 6:20 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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The project formerly known as "Hoyt Square" from Chinese developers, at 465 W Cermak, is now called "Harbor Center" (I think in Chinese though it's "Hong Kong Center"). Century 21 Realty, aka HMC Realty, has a new video up on YouTube talking about it.

Phase 2 apparently is going to build a new 1 story retail building on the vacant land across the street at Canal and Cermak and then a 7 story 70 unit condo building right south of that also on vacant land, both along Grove Street.

Remember that there's a new huge Chinese mall already opened right across the river from this with a massive new Asian supermarket and a few new restaurants. Apparently some places including Chinatown mainstay BBQ King House opened in the food court there. It's also a short walk to the new Canal Plaza retail center at Canal & Archer, which according to at least one of their other videos has some places that recently opened there (like a jianbing place).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAegFzr6CJg (Turn on captions)

Phase 1:
300K sq ft mall
Supermarket
Spa
Food hall
Entertainment
Co-working space
"Service apartment"
Parking

Phase II:
New retail building
New banquet hall/restaurant
Hotel
New condo building (7 story, 70 units)
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  #48022  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2020, 6:57 PM
RedCorsair87 RedCorsair87 is offline
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Two more Cedar St. properties in Uptown:

https://blockclubchicago.org/2020/12...lding-project/

I hope this building retains some design elements of The Draper.

https://blockclubchicago.org/2020/12...city-approval/

I preferred the first iteration of this building.
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  #48023  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2020, 7:27 PM
ORD2010 ORD2010 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
The project formerly known as "Hoyt Square" from Chinese developers, at 465 W Cermak, is now called "Harbor Center" (I think in Chinese though it's "Hong Kong Center"). Century 21 Realty, aka HMC Realty, has a new video up on YouTube talking about it.

Phase 2 apparently is going to build a new 1 story retail building on the vacant land across the street at Canal and Cermak and then a 7 story 70 unit condo building right south of that also on vacant land, both along Grove Street.

Remember that there's a new huge Chinese mall already opened right across the river from this with a massive new Asian supermarket and a few new restaurants. Apparently some places including Chinatown mainstay BBQ King House opened in the food court there. It's also a short walk to the new Canal Plaza retail center at Canal & Archer, which according to at least one of their other videos has some places that recently opened there (like a jianbing place).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAegFzr6CJg (Turn on captions)

Phase 1:
300K sq ft mall
Supermarket
Spa
Food hall
Entertainment
Co-working space
"Service apartment"
Parking

Phase II:
New retail building
New banquet hall/restaurant
Hotel
New condo building (7 story, 70 units)
Are they still planning for the Chinese superstore (sounded like an ikea type store?) in the main building? as well as the large dim sum restaurant? I remember being very excited for that part of the concept.
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  #48024  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2020, 7:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Phase 1:
300K sq ft mall
Supermarket
Spa
Food hall
Entertainment
Co-working space
"Service apartment"
Parking

Phase II:
New retail building
New banquet hall/restaurant
Hotel
New condo building (7 story, 70 units)
This is great to hear! I'm surprised residential is being planned when the underlying zoning is still a PMD


336 E Pershing Rd received permits for 49 units and 1st floor office space, according to Chicago Yimby. Here's a rendering I have of the project, it was brought up at a 3rd Ward meeting last year

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  #48025  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2020, 9:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RedCorsair87 View Post

https://blockclubchicago.org/2020/12...city-approval/

I preferred the first iteration of this building.
Me too
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  #48026  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2020, 4:03 PM
Barrelfish Barrelfish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
The project formerly known as "Hoyt Square" from Chinese developers, at 465 W Cermak, is now called "Harbor Center" (I think in Chinese though it's "Hong Kong Center").
I think this isn't quite right. The Chinese name better translates to Grand Harbor Center.

The first two characters of the name are 宏港 (Hóng gǎng in Mandarin). Gǎng is harbor. Hóng is great or grand.

The Chinese name for Hong Kong is 香港 (xiāng gǎng in Mandarin), which translates to "Fragrant harbor". It's confusing because in Cantonese, that first character is pronounced more like hóng. (At least I think so. I know a bit of mandarin but almost no cantonese).

Either way, thanks for keeping us in the loop on this one!
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  #48027  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2020, 4:07 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by r18tdi View Post
Me too

thats a downgrade for sure but im skeptical the initial plan would have resulted in a high level of detailing/finishing. the original rendering kinda tricks your brain into being convinced it will be terra cotta or limestone. or at least thats what that kind of classical design demands in order to not look like cheap junk esp given its surroundings

Last edited by Via Chicago; Dec 22, 2020 at 4:21 PM.
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  #48028  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2020, 6:37 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by Barrelfish View Post
I think this isn't quite right. The Chinese name better translates to Grand Harbor Center.

The first two characters of the name are 宏港 (Hóng gǎng in Mandarin). Gǎng is harbor. Hóng is great or grand.

The Chinese name for Hong Kong is 香港 (xiāng gǎng in Mandarin), which translates to "Fragrant harbor". It's confusing because in Cantonese, that first character is pronounced more like hóng. (At least I think so. I know a bit of mandarin but almost no cantonese).

Either way, thanks for keeping us in the loop on this one!
Yeah, you're right. My wife corrected me too It's Hong Gang - I still have more Mandarin to learn..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomguy34 View Post
This is great to hear! I'm surprised residential is being planned when the underlying zoning is still a PMD
So what's interesting is that the big open space across from Jefferson Square has an application to return zoning back to what it was before. The owner of C21 mentioned in a video they were just going to make the entire thing parking, so maybe that's consistent with the new zoning application. However, another video said they'd be building new stuff there, so who knows. Maybe both developments have some of the same investors working together. Either way, it's positive to see these things happen in this area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ORD2010 View Post
Are they still planning for the Chinese superstore (sounded like an ikea type store?) in the main building? as well as the large dim sum restaurant? I remember being very excited for that part of the concept.
To be honest, I have no idea. It'll be interesting to see because this is only a 5 minute walk to Jefferson Square. Both of these places have 300K sq ft of retail space, mainly targeted towards Asian owned businesses. By comparison, Pacific Mall in Markham, ON (Toronto) has 270K sq ft afaik. That's considered a well known place and each of these places in Chicago are larger individually. jefferson Square already has a few restaurants/eateries open there (at least 2 Chinese places and a sushi place) with more coming. The investors/owners of Jefferson Square are actually from mainland China so it will be interesting to see which retail stores from China they are able to get to open there. Up until now, most of the retail stores in Chinatown Chicago are very local and I'd say that's true in many cities really. In the last few years, food chains from China have started to open in Chicago as well as other US cities (NYC, LA, Boston, Seattle, DC, etc). I'll be interested to see if any of the retail brands from there could follow. It wouldn't necessarily surprise me if the home goods store still opened there. I think I heard that 88 Marketplace sells some home goods too. There is an importer in Chicago (Rongsheng) located in Archer Heights who moved from Flushing NYC a few years ago. Would be interesting to see some actual retailers there. I have gotten clothes in China itself and at least of some brands it's definitely true that the quality there is better than some of what is imported normally in America.

I think the banquet restaurant mentioned would definitely have dim sum during normal type of day hours. My guess is that they would be putting in the other NYC Chinese restaurants there too but no idea. I bet if you contacted C21 real estate (HMC Realty) they could tell you (http://hmcrealty.com).

Also don't forget that 3-5 minute walk from 465 W Cermak is a new retail mall from the same developer, and I know at least one food place (Monkey King Jianbing) recently opened there. There's 40 retail stalls there plus all this new retail space from those 2 malls within 5-10 minutes walk, and plans to build even more retail. Curious to see if there's about to be a bunch of Chinese businesses opening in Chicago from mainland itself in these places, or if they'll have trouble leasing out all the space. Will be interesting to see..
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Last edited by marothisu; Dec 22, 2020 at 7:05 PM.
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  #48029  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2020, 7:17 PM
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^ Historically when viewing Chinatown development there has been a trend of large proposals coming and going, with relatively few actually getting built. That's the reality of the development industry everywhere, but the Chinese community tends to publicize these large projects that may or may not really be feasible whereas developers in other parts of the city are usually more tight-lipped and conservative with their expectations.

I wonder how much of it is related to the mainland China attitude of "build it and they will come" that doesn't really work in Chicago where holding costs are high and population growth is modest at best.
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  #48030  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2020, 7:22 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
^ Historically when viewing Chinatown development there has been a trend of large proposals coming and going, with relatively few actually getting built. That's the reality of the development industry everywhere, but the Chinese community tends to publicize these large projects that may or may not really be feasible.

If something does get built, often it is downgraded significantly - remember the hotel in traditional Chinese style that was proposed for Clark/Archer? That died after the Great Recession, eventually it became a 1-story strip mall.
True, but Canal Plaza was actually built with actual open businesses in it. Jefferson Square was built and opened with a massive grocery store in it and some restaurants. That new hotel on Wentworth was being built last time someone took a picture a few months ago. Work has been going on that Harbor Center as well. I don't know whether they'll build those buildings, but these are big developments that actually have been built to completion or closing in on completion.

The investors behind Jefferson Square (found them awhile ago but lost it) have some serious money from what I remember. Also, real estate prices in Shanghai, Beijing, etc are enormously higher than Chicago when talking about comparable to downtown area. Chicago also has top 3 increases city proper of China born population in the last handful of years. There's a reason why chains like Haidilao are opening in Chicago and only a few other US cities with large Chinese populations.
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  #48031  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2020, 7:34 PM
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Jefferson Square is open now? Jeez I live 5 minutes away and didn't know. I don't think they have any signage on 18th or Cermak. I need to go check it out!

Canal Plaza is just puzzling. I love that the developer saw potential in such an awkward shaped, constrained site but it's almost entirely vacant still.
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  #48032  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2020, 8:05 PM
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I will be happy when the Chinatown Parking lot adjacent to the Red Line stop at Cermak gets redeveloped. That is prime real estate destined for something far better than surface parking
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  #48033  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2020, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
I will be happy when the Chinatown Parking lot adjacent to the Red Line stop at Cermak gets redeveloped. That is prime real estate destined for something far better than surface parking
yeah, that is an eyesore for sure, although some of the businesses may be against its redevelopment without an equivalent replacement.
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  #48034  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2020, 9:01 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Jefferson Square is open now? Jeez I live 5 minutes away and didn't know. I don't think they have any signage on 18th or Cermak. I need to go check it out!
Yeah, it's open..21st and Cermak basically. There is a hot pot place there which opened in the summer, its first location in the US (a chain from Chongqing - https://www.yelp.com/biz/qiao-lin-hotpot-chicago-2). Apparently the best hot pot in Chicago.

Also, the massive supermarket opened there a few months ago. It's 80K sq ft of mostly Asian food and alcohol:
https://www.yelp.com/biz/88-marketplace-chicago-4

Besides that, there's supposed to be a few new restaurants there such as a Chinese BBQ place ("Holu House"), Bubble Tea, etc. BBQ King House, a Chinatown mainstay, just opened up in their food court and I believe Taipei Cafe is supposed to open an outpost there too. There's also a sushi place there called 312 Fish Market, which has $55, $88, and $123 omakase (but due to dine in restrictions doesn't serve it to go/delivery).

Quote:
Canal Plaza is just puzzling. I love that the developer saw potential in such an awkward shaped, constrained site but it's almost entirely vacant still.
As far as I know, they just finished up not long ago. Super slow construction. So far I know of a dentist office, Monkey King Jianbing, and some water place called Hydr8 Your Life actually open all very recently. There are multiple other places that will soon open up in there I know about.

Start at 45 seconds here. All those places already signed on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31xwr6CcdFk

That includes a new Chinese BBQ place as well as some other places. Moon & Flower House from NYC is opening up there too which actually slings chicken wings, burgers, etc. I think you'll see more and more places open up in that place in the coming few months from what I know.


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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
I will be happy when the Chinatown Parking lot adjacent to the Red Line stop at Cermak gets redeveloped. That is prime real estate destined for something far better than surface parking
I actually found plans for a mid rise to be put there via a Chinese social media site. It fell through because enough people complained about the lack of parking. No joke, but you have to remember that there's a bunch of people coming into Chinatown from areas like Bridgeport, McKinley Park, Brighton Park, Archer Height, suburbs, etc via car to Chinatown. They aren't taking the trains and as someone else explained to me, there's more of a drive to make a huge Chinatown instead of taking over retail in neighborhoods like Brighton Park. A destination of sorts. There's a reason why they are expanding into these new "no man's land" areas right next to Chinatown though almost with these giant new developments with ample parking and not necessarily constraining themselves to Chinatown proper anymore. Enough demand via car and also saw the opportunity to expand the boundaries of "Chinatown."
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Last edited by marothisu; Dec 22, 2020 at 9:16 PM.
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  #48035  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2020, 12:49 AM
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^ Wow, very informative. Thanks for sharing that video

It seems that all of this commercial development will attract a lot more residential development to the areas adjacent to all of these projects.

I agree that there would be a bitch-fest about the Chinatown Parking lot. That’s why my idea has long been a major development that includes a large parking garage. Even that would be better than surface parking.
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  #48036  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2020, 2:48 AM
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I live in Pilsen and stopped by 88 Marketplace at Jefferson Square today. I'm surprised I didn't hear about it sooner, but I haven't really been getting over to Chinatown (or anywhere really) since the pandemic began.

The 88 Marketplace has to be the largest Chinese supermarket in the city. Good variety on packaged goods. Has a meat counter and some produce. There's also an outpost of Chiu Chon bakery, a place called BBQ King (I think they have a location in Chinatown as well), and a fish market that looked like a sushi restaurant (I didn't get a close look). There's a few home goods (basically pots and pans and the like) but it's similar in size to the Park To Shop on 18th and Canal. The store is actually on the second floor of the building, they have one of cart escalators, which was actually a little surprising. Overall, it's a nice addition to what feels like a very hot market for groceries in Chinatown. A few years ago there seemed to only be two groceries in the area, now there's probably four or five.

The first floor of the Jefferson Square development has the two restaurants. One is a hot pot place that is open. I'm not sure what the other one is, but it's still under construction. Those two are accessed from Jefferson St. There are a few more retail spaces inside. These are accessed from the same entrance with the escalator to the grocery store. One place will be a bubble tea spot, the others are still being constructed and it wasn't apparent what's going in.

This is definitely a place to drive to. They have a parking lot across the street from the building. It's interesting that restaurants have decided to locate here, they must be catering towards a local Chinese/neighborhood crowd, as I can't really imagine tourists wandering over.

The Harbor Square/Hoyt Square project has been slowly replacing windows. When I saw the sign for this project a few years ago I was skeptical it would actually happen, but it's a lot more hopeful now. It will be interesting to see if the residential parts happen, it doesn't seem very desirable given the industrial surroundings but I guess there's housing almost adjacent on the other side of the tracks.

I didn't go down to Canal Plaza, but I was on the Orange Line last week and saw a few signs for various businesses on the second floor parking side that faces the CTA tracks.

The hotel on Wentworth on top of the parking deck seems like it's almost finished. I walked past about a month ago and it looked like they were finishing out the entrance.

I think there was another grocery store or mall proposed at 18th and Canal? It will be very interesting to see if that happens or if the Jefferson Square expansion happens.
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  #48037  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2020, 4:40 AM
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Yeah there’s another large retail development planned at the NE corner of 18th/Canal, but I’ll believe it when I see it. I’m also concerned about the traffic with all these new developments being so car-focused.

Just behind there on Stewart is a long strip next to the railyard where Streets and San is supposed to move their yard from 18th/Clark. Once that move happens I could see Related buying the old site potentially. 18th/Clark is a great spot for housing with the new Red Line stop just steps away and Mariano’s across the street.
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  #48038  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2020, 11:27 PM
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Peoria Green





CA6: demo well underway, construction looks certain with those barriers


932 w Randolph; demo underway. Are they keeping the underlying structure?
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  #48039  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2020, 5:18 AM
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932 w Randolph; demo underway. Are they keeping the underlying structure?
The building permit refers to this as a renovation, so that means they are keeping some of it. It's a shame, I really liked the arched brick. Almost Sullivan-esque.
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  #48040  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2020, 11:03 PM
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West Loop really looking completely unrecognizable from my UIC days. Was 2007 that long ago?
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