SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA: Transit/Transportation News

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Some cool historic shots.
https://bartable.bart.gov/featured/5...ic-opening-day

I'm showing my age, but I clearly recall a picture of a BART train and a description of the system in an early-1980s social studies textbook. It was presented in the context of a future transportation to combat pollution from automobiles. I remember thinking "yeah, that makes sense, and those trains will be much more common in the future...".

I don't think that young people today understand how much a post-fossil fuels future was presented to Americans in the aftermath of the energy crisis. Things like EPCOT and even the much-derided Sun Sphere in Knoxville were mainstream reminders that solar panels, aquaponic farming, etc., were good things and to be expected in the not-so-distant future.

[MAC123]

^ Had Walt not died early I'm sure Epcot would have been completed to his full vision, for better or worse.
Would havebeen really interesting. Though how mainstream some of those ideas would have been during that time period if it was completed could be debated.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

I don't think that young people today understand how much a post-fossil fuels future was presented to Americans in the aftermath of the energy crisis. Things like EPCOT and even the much-derided Sun Sphere in Knoxville were mainstream reminders that solar panels, aquaponic farming, etc., was to be expected in the not-so-distant future.

Yeah, and then Reagan happened. Because being told the truth and confronting it was a "bummer" .

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by MAC123

^ Had Walt not died early I'm sure Epcot would have been completed to his full vision, for better or worse.
Would havebeen really interesting. Though how mainstream some of those ideas would have been during that time period if it was completed could be debated.

I remember visiting EPCOT in 1988 and thinking it already looked dated. You didn't get the sense that visitors really cared. I recall all of the solar panels and indoor farming operations looking kind of like a failed vision for the future.

I took a little more interest in the international section of EPCOT. People are going to laugh when they read this but it's the first place I ate Mexican food. My family didn't go to restaurants very often but our area didn't have any. Taco Bell was relatively new and we never went there.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Yeah, and then Reagan happened. Because being told the truth and confronting it was a "bummer" .

I think young people today wouldn't understand how polluted everything was and how much garbage was all over the place. There were these big anti-littering campaigns on TV and radio because people used to throw fast food wrappers out on the interstate as they ate. I have a pretty clear recollection of tons and tons of garbage along the interstates. Also, there were oil lines down the center of the lanes since all of the old American cars used to leak oil, all of the time.

[Busy Bee]

The crying indian. I don't remember but I've seen. Yes, the country was filthy. Corporations may not be dumping waste into our streams and rivers still but there's still plenty of pollution and litter to go around. I think one could make the argument that today's plastic garbage at lesser amounts is worse than a greater amount of paper based litter.

[Pedestrian]

Men wearing ties and not a single homeless person passed out over two seats, feet projecting into the isle.

A different world.

[Busy Bee]

Odds are at least one person in this photo wound up homeless.

[homebucket]

I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one of these and upcycling it into a backyard shed/office/guest house or something.

HAYWARD, Calif. (KGO) -- If you're enthusiastic recycler with a streak of nostalgia, BART may be looking for you. It has over 600 train cars it's planning to put out of service over the next four years or so. That's because of a new fleet of cars will be replacing them.

"I've spoken to people who have said they could be used as a hot rod, turned into a food truck," said Philip Kamhi.

Kamhi has an interesting job. He's in charge of helping BART dispose of 669 train cars. Legacy cars, they're called. Some were built starting in the late 1960s and put into service as BART started rolling in 1972. In this age of recycling, he's hoping they can be repurposed by others if they're willing to buy them.

No fair market price has been determined and BART hasn't said how it will use the proceeds. However, the Federal Transit Administration will be getting a cut for providing BART with money to rehab most of the cars in 1998 and 2002.

"If the fleet is determined to have a value of over $5,000, the FTA is due to receive their percentage of proceeds," Kamhi said.

The FTA's share ranges from 55 to 70 percent.

Possible uses for these old cars include museums, food trucks and homeless shelters.

"There's a lot of nostalgia around this so I think that a lot of people who are really interested in them in the concept of seeing them reused," Kamhi said. "But we'll see what the real interest is when they come out to bid."

"Before you let your imagination go wild, one thing you won't see these old cars used for is multi-story housing. There won't be BART-ments, so to speak, because they're made of aluminum and can't be stacked one on top of another."

https://abc7news.com/bart-fleet-cars...-sold/5042574/

[Busy Bee]

There's a video on YouTube put out by BART regarding recycle the legacy fleet. It's kinda weird though how they specifically say they can't be used for housing based on the fact the lightweight aluminum "cannot be stacked" which seems to ignore the possibility they could be used as a structure for people use of some sort as long as they are a single level i.e. a cabin or studio or something. On a related note, it kills me that the MTA in New York seems to be hostile to the notion of selling retired cars to the general public for creative reuse. They seem to be content with saving a handful for museum use and seeing the rest sunk to the ocean floor or sold for scrap. I've dreamed of turning one of these beauties into a design studio/workshop or getaway cabin:


_


Can you imagine coming upon one of these in the forest?

[canucklehead2]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Men wearing ties and not a single homeless person passed out over two seats, feet projecting into the isle.

A different world.

When wages stagnate since 1971 what would one expect, ya pearl clutching Karen...

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by canucklehead2

When wages stagnate since 1971 what would one expect, ya pearl clutching Karen...

I see. So in Canada stagnant wages means antisocial behavior becomes acceptable and public transport becomes unusable for its original purpose and instead becomes a mobile homeless shelter. Interesting to know. Good luck up there.

Down here, I used to support public transit and still do when it's clean and safe but BART and SF's Muni no longer are either. So I no longer support them until those running them clean them up and eject the usually non-fare paying, intoxicated derelicts and return them to people who want transportation, not shelter, and are willing to pay the designated fare.

[homebucket]

Let's get it done!

Caltrain seeks $260 million to complete electrification
State budget surplus eyed to finish transformative rail project
By Benjamin Schneider Examiner staff writer • May 25, 2022 12:30 pm


A Caltrain electric locomotive is tested on a track in Pueblo, Colorado. The transit agency is working to convert from fossil fuels to electricity and needs a cash infusion to finish. (Thomas Andre)

Caltrain is on the cusp of completing its most significant upgrade since the rail line debuted in 1863. By converting its power source from fossil fuels to electricity, trains travelling between San Francisco and San Jose will be faster, more frequent and far less polluting.

Up and down the corridor, catenary poles for overhead electrical wires already are visible, and new electric trains are undergoing testing at Caltrain’s maintenance facility.

But to finish the project, the rail agency needs a big infusion of cash — $260 million to be exact.

Caltrain is eyeing California’s historic $100 billion budget surplus for relief, though federal and local sources could come into play if that falls through. Without the additional funds, the project might miss its targeted 2024 completion date.

“There’s an unprecedented amount of money for capital projects, and this is one of the flagship projects in the region,” said Adina Levin, project director of the nonprofit group Friends of Caltrain. “It’s long awaited, it’s very beneficial, it helps provide faster, more frequent, less polluting service. Out of all of the things that one would contemplate spending money on, this is a really strong candidate.”

The project, which also includes a new signal system and other improvements, was originally budgeted for $1.9 billion, but costs ballooned to about $2.4 billion. The $462 million shortfall was partly the result of pandemic disruption, cost increases and unexpected construction issues along the nearly 160-year-old railway.

But there were also self-inflicted wounds: The project had to redo its signal system, at a cost of $179 million, because it wasn’t compatible with Federal Railroad Administration standards or those of California High Speed Rail, which will someday share tracks with Caltrain.


The San Bruno Caltrain station shows overhead electrification upgrades. (Karl Nielsen)

...

Once complete, the electrification project will provide several benefits to Caltrain riders and the communities surrounding the tracks. Electric trains will be able to travel more quickly and closer together, eventually allowing for service every 10 minutes, similar to BART frequencies. A local trip between San Francisco and San Jose will be about 15 minutes faster, going from about one hour, 35 minutes to about one hour, 20 minutes. Train interiors will be more spacious and modern, with digital displays announcing next stops and power outlets at every seat.

Unlike today’s diesel trains, electrified Caltrain service will not produce any local pollution, so communities near the tracks will breathe cleaner air. The zero emissions trains are expected to decrease CO2 emissions by 176,000 tons annually. By 2040, Caltrain hopes to triple its current capacity, the equivalent of adding 5½ lanes to Highway 101.

In the first few years after the project is completed, electric trains will be in service alongside diesel trains, which will continue to serve the nonelectrified portion of the line between San Jose and Gilroy as well as a future extension to Monterey County. Caltrain is exploring the possibility of ordering hybrid zero emissions trains that can run on overhead electric power as well as hydrogen or other kinds of batteries.

The San Jose to Gilroy segment is slated to be electrified as part of California’s High Speed Rail project, though funding has not yet materialized. The electrification of the San Francisco to San Jose segment was made possible in large part by High Speed Rail, which contributed over $700 million, or about 40% of the original cost, to the project.

https://www.sfexaminer.com/fixes/cal...ectrification/

[Busy Bee]

But there were also self-inflicted wounds: The project had to redo its signal system, at a cost of $179 million, because it wasn’t compatible with Federal Railroad Administration standards or those of California High Speed Rail, which will someday share tracks with Caltrain.

What in the F ?

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

What in the F ?

Oopsies.

[Busy Bee]

If anybody knows where that hilarious demotivational image of the Caltrain tracks weaving around a signal is please post it, I've been looking for it forever.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

What in the F ?

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Oopsies.

I didn't take this to mean a newly installed signal system needed replacement. I took it to mean the decades old heritage system needed replacement to meet the standards required by HSR. And the requirement could have been imposed by the decision to run CalTrain and HSR on the same tracks or in the same right of way. I think the electrification project pre-dates the CAHSR project and what might have been OK for just an electrified Caltrain wouldn't be for HSR.

[numble]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

I didn't take this to mean a newly installed signal system needed replacement. I took it to mean the decades old heritage system needed replacement to meet the standards required by HSR. And the requirement could have been imposed by the decision to run CalTrain and HSR on the same tracks or in the same right of way. I think the electrification project pre-dates the CAHSR project and what might have been OK for just an electrified Caltrain wouldn't be for HSR.

I'm not the most familiar with this project, but it looks like it was because they had a certain design for their signals system, the FRA told them to redesign it, and the contractor charged $179m for the redesign and the delays caused by the redesign. It looked like the contractor initially asked for $239m.

https://www.caltrain.com/media/677/download?inline

The Electrification contractor has been reporting a delay to its substantial completion date for many months based on its alleged inability to begin work on the grade crossing warning system as planned in its baseline schedule. The delay has been day-for-day. The contractor submitted a delay claim on behalf of its signals’ subcontractor; the material submitted stated in part “[a]t this juncture MRS estimates that the cost associated with this issue, to include but not limited to, indirect cost, direct cost, materials, escalation, contingency, risk, and delays is $76,223,166, which includes 1,092 days in delay costs associated with the project duration being extended.” Shortly thereafter, the Electrification contractor submitted its TIA for the delays associated with the CWT issue. The transmittal letter for the TIA presented a Change Order Cost Proposal in the amount of $239,550,209 consisting of $71,882,763 in Direct Costs and $167,667,445 in Delay Costs

[ardecila]

Haste makes waste, as the saying goes. In 2008 the Chatsworth crash happened and led Congress to mandate the installation of PTC signaling systems on every railroad in the US by 2015. They gave railroads 7 years to do a huge nationwide rollout, in a country where even minor changes to our infrastructure can take 15-20 years. Congress also gave no funds to railroads to meet this deadline.

Because of the tight timeline and lack of funding, Caltrain chose a system called CBOSS that was kind of a hack, an overlay of additional functionality onto their existing signal system rather than a whole new signal system from the ground up. They knew in theory that HSR may be coming to their tracks, but the deadline from Congress meant they couldn't wait around for 5 or 10 years while CHSRA figured out the tech standards for their new rail system. There was also a chance that HSR would build a new alignment on the Peninsula and wouldn't need to share tracks with Caltrain at all.

Of course, eventually CHSRA caved to NIMBYs on the Peninsula and agreed to a blended system, meaning that Caltrain's CBOSS wouldn't be compatible. They decided to use a system called I-ETMS, which has become the PTC standard for US rail mainlines. But that was after sinking $200M into the failed CBOSS. Other issues arose too, like the fact that CBOSS contractors laid fiber optic cable right in the path of certain foundations for the overhead catenary system. The whole thing has now gotten tied up in a predictable but very messy/complex lawsuit.

You can read even more technical detail at Clem Tillier's blog:
https://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/se...0&by-date=true

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Haste makes waste, as the saying goes. In 2008 the Chatsworth crash happened and led Congress to mandate the installation of PTC signaling systems on every railroad in the US by 2015. They gave railroads 7 years to do a huge nationwide rollout, in a country where even minor changes to our infrastructure can take 15-20 years. Congress also gave no funds to railroads to meet this deadline.

Because of the tight timeline and lack of funding, Caltrain chose a system called CBOSS that was kind of a hack, an overlay of additional functionality onto their existing signal system rather than a whole new signal system from the ground up. They knew in theory that HSR may be coming to their tracks, but the deadline from Congress meant they couldn't wait around for 5 or 10 years while CHSRA figured out the tech standards for their new rail system. There was also a chance that HSR would build a new alignment on the Peninsula and wouldn't need to share tracks with Caltrain at all.

Of course, eventually CHSRA caved to NIMBYs on the Peninsula and agreed to a blended system, meaning that Caltrain's CBOSS wouldn't be compatible. They decided to use a system called I-ETMS, which has become the PTC standard for US rail mainlines. But that was after sinking $200M into the failed CBOSS. Other issues arose too, like the fact that CBOSS contractors laid fiber optic cable right in the path of certain foundations for the overhead catenary system. The whole thing has now gotten tied up in a predictable but very messy/complex lawsuit.

You can read even more technical detail at Clem Tillier's blog:
https://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/se...0&by-date=true

Thanks for your explanation and the link.

I've never understood why signaling is so expensive. I imagine that part of it must be that there are a limited number of electricians who are qualified to do the work, and as such, they're able to charge whatever they want.