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  #81  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2021, 12:26 AM
Docere Docere is offline
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Norridge may be the most "European ethnic" place in the US:

Polish 31.1%
Italian 19%
Greek 2.6%
Ukrainian 2.4%
Serbian 1.8%
Albanian 1.8%

https://statisticalatlas.com/place/I...ational-Origin

And more than a quarter born in Europe. 14% born in Poland, 5% born in Italy, 1.5% each born in Greece and Albania.
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  #82  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2021, 12:49 AM
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^ Yeah didn't really have Chicago have in mind since it's a much bigger city. Most European nationalities are well represented in Chicago.
gotcha.

i was more just adding to your comment to round out the US great lakes usual suspects for large polish populations.


looking deeper into Milwaukee, i don't know what constitutes a "significant population" of specific eastern eurpoean immigrants, but FWIW i was able to find these entries in the "Encyclopedia of Milwaukee" for:

Czechs
Hungarians
Latvians
Russians
Serbians
Slovaks
Slovenes
Ukranians


so at the very least there was some modest presence of those groups in the Cream City, though like Chicago, far outweighed by the poles.

and i have no idea how their numbers/percentages would compare to those of similar eastern european groups in Cleveland.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Apr 24, 2021 at 1:08 AM.
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  #83  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2021, 4:14 AM
Docere Docere is offline
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Chicago

Polish 812,960
Russian 101,081
Czech 82,282
Lithuanian 62,216
Ukrainian 53,785
Hungarian 43,327
Croatian 41,096
Slovak 35,520
Romanian 31,851
Serbian 29,582
Bulgarian 13,579
Yugoslavian 13,575
Czechoslovakian 12,163
Slovene 11,491
Albanian 11,468
Macedonian 10,151
Latvian 5,386

Cleveland

Polish 160,035
Hungarian 62,024
Slovak 48,081
Slovene 35,712
Russian 24,724
Czech 21,338
Ukrainian 20,273
Croatian 16,056
Romanian 9,746
Serbian 8,837
Lithuanian 6,956
Czechoslovakian 5,620

Detroit

Polish 419,774
Hungarian 43,827
Russian 34,428
Ukrainian 26,721
Romanian 24,290
Albanian 23,908
Slovak 12,396
Lithuanian 12,208
Czech 11,535
Yugoslavian 9,941
Macedonian 9,884
Serbian 7,598
Croatian 6,786
Czechoslovakian 5,824

Pittsburgh

Polish 199,406
Slovak 81,284
Hungarian 40,780
Russian 33,175
Croatian 28,108
Ukrainian 18,359
Czech 16,356
Serbian 11,677
Lithuanian 11,450
Czechoslovakian 7,348

Last edited by Docere; Apr 24, 2021 at 4:22 PM.
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  #84  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2021, 10:22 PM
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San Francisco (people reporting ancestry, 2019 ACS):

Russian - 17,308
Polish - 15,843
Eastern European - 6,828
Ukrainian - 5,383
Hungarian - 3,410
Armenian - 2,865
Czech - 2,672
Lithuanian - 1,983
Romanian - 1,687
Croatian - 1,398
Slovene - 644
Serbian - 617
Slovak - 610
Czechoslovakian - 540
Bulgarian - 528
Yugoslavian - 492
Latvian - 469
Slavic - 297
Macedonian - 143
Albanian - 132
Soviet Union - 131
Estonian - 66

There's probably a few more Slavs and Eastern Europeans included within the 20,000 who identified as "European", and among the 475,000 who selected "other" lol.

The Richmond district in SF is home to many of those Russians and Ukrainians, and there's a handful of businesses with signs in Cyrillic. There's also a cool Orthodox church:


Holy Virgin Russian Orthodox Cathedral, San Francisco by Michael Layefsky, on Flickr

edit: the Bay Area also is relatively unique in that a small part of it used to be a Russian colony, and the old fort is still there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ross,_California


California-06504 - Fort Ross by Dennis Jarvis, on Flickr


Fort Ross Chapel by Srikanth Srinivasan, on Flickr

There's a river named after them too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...r_(California)

Russian Hill in SF also has a connection, unsurprisingly, having been named after a Russian cemetery that was there before the gold rush population boom occurred.

Last edited by tech12; Apr 24, 2021 at 10:36 PM.
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  #85  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 5:00 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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So of the 4 rust belt cities above, Cleveland has the largest Hungarian and Slovene communities, Detroit the largest Albanian and Pittsburgh the largest Slovak.
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  #86  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 5:25 PM
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No such thing as being Lithuanian and not being Polish, same for Ukrainian and others.

It amounts to me saying I’m Pennsylvanian, but not American.
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  #87  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 6:20 PM
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It amounts to me saying I’m Pennsylvanian, but not American.
Well, I'm a chicagoan, but I sure as fuck ain't no dirty stupid american


But seriously, while chicago's lithuanians may be part of the larger polish diaspora, they self-identify as lithuanian, distinct from the city's gigantic polish community. Cousins for sure, but still separate people.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Apr 25, 2021 at 8:09 PM.
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  #88  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 6:35 PM
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Well, I'm a chicagoan, but I sure as fuck ain't no dirty stupid american


But seriously, while chicago's lithuanians may be part of the larger polish diaspora, they self-identity as lithuanian, distinct from the city's gigantic polish community. Cousins for sure, but still separate people.



And yes, nothing wrong with identification with one’s region... separate like Pennsylvanians and Illinoisans
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  #89  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 7:08 PM
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No such thing as being Lithuanian and not being Polish, same for Ukrainian and others.

It amounts to me saying I’m Pennsylvanian, but not American.
But Lithuanians are Lithuanians and Polish are Polish. Might be some commonalities as there are with Polish and other slavic countries but Lithuania is pretty fierce about their own identity.
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  #90  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 8:35 PM
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But Lithuanians are Lithuanians and Polish are Polish. Might be some commonalities as there are with Polish and other slavic countries but Lithuania is pretty fierce about their own identity.
That’s not really accurate. Lithuanians are Polish, maybe not in name NOW, but as far as ancestry goes, they are. Sure, regional identity certainly exists. It’s very strong in Europe.

Most of Europe east of Germany and west of Russia and north of Greece (and including significant portions of both Germany and Russia) was POLAND for centuries. The grand Duke of Lithuania became the King of Poland at what was likely the era of its greatest territorial extent. Borders and national names in Eastern Europe have obviously shifted quite a bit, even in recent times.

But with an understanding of the history of Poland, you can see how a Lithuanian saying I’m not Polish, is akin to a Texan saying I’m not American. It would make sense only if Texas was to secede. Or like Sicilians saying they’re not Italian.

Unitary “nationality” especially in Europe is a tricky thing because it is determined by political borders, not necessarily centuries of governance and culture.

Last edited by pj3000; Apr 25, 2021 at 8:50 PM.
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  #91  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 9:06 PM
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Probably the most badass statue in Central Park. Quite imposing when you wander upon it.





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  #92  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 9:50 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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No such thing as being Lithuanian and not being Polish, same for Ukrainian and others.

It amounts to me saying I’m Pennsylvanian, but not American.
Lol. Okay.

Lithuania and Poland at one time were one country, as were many places in Europe.

However, Lithuanians and Poles are different people, ethnically.
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  #93  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 10:10 PM
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To my surprise, my DNA results had 0% slavic origins. I had more sub-saharan African than I did Eastern Europe. Since an "update" I lost my sub-saharan and gained Chinese, go figure that one out!
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  #94  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
That’s not really accurate. Lithuanians are Polish, maybe not in name NOW, but as far as ancestry goes, they are. Sure, regional identity certainly exists. It’s very strong in Europe.

Most of Europe east of Germany and west of Russia and north of Greece (and including significant portions of both Germany and Russia) was POLAND for centuries. The grand Duke of Lithuania became the King of Poland at what was likely the era of its greatest territorial extent. Borders and national names in Eastern Europe have obviously shifted quite a bit, even in recent times.

But with an understanding of the history of Poland, you can see how a Lithuanian saying I’m not Polish, is akin to a Texan saying I’m not American. It would make sense only if Texas was to secede. Or like Sicilians saying they’re not Italian.

Unitary “nationality” especially in Europe is a tricky thing because it is determined by political borders, not necessarily centuries of governance and culture.
I'm actually with someone from Poland now and asked her about this and I stand corrected. While they are distinct now, they weren't before WW2 and some older Lithuanians identity with both.

Oh and don't tell a Sicilian they are an Italian.
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  #95  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 10:36 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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I'm actually with someone from Poland now and asked her about this and I stand corrected. While they are distinct now, they weren't before WW2 and some older Lithuanians identity with both.

Oh and don't tell a Sicilian they are an Italian.
This is incorrect. Geopolitical does not mean ethnic.

Would you say Souix Indians are the same as Anglo-Americans just because they live in the same place? Are Kurds Iraqi and Turkish just because they happen to live in a randomly drawn geo-political boundary?

This is an incredibly ignorant conversation.

Poles and Lithuanians are not the same. They don't even look alike.
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  #96  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 10:41 PM
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Lol. Okay.

Lithuania and Poland at one time were one country, as were many places in Europe.

However, Lithuanians and Poles are different people, ethnically.
At one time? That deserves the “Lol”.

Lithuania was part of Poland for over 400 YEARS!!!

Ethnically different? How so? This could be argued any number of ways, and it still all comes down to European regionalism identity vs. European unitary nationalism identity.

Ethnicity is based on common national and cultural tradition. Over 400 years of formal common nationality and culture exists in the case of Poland and Lithuania.
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  #97  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 10:45 PM
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I'm actually with someone from Poland now and asked her about this and I stand corrected. While they are distinct now, they weren't before WW2 and some older Lithuanians identity with both.

Oh and don't tell a Sicilian they are an Italian.
Nice, Polish girls are hot.

Yeah, I’ve learned the Sicilian as Italian description amounts to fightin words.
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  #98  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 10:47 PM
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At one time? That deserves the “Lol”.

Lithuania was part of Poland for over 400 YEARS!!!

Ethnically different? How so? This could be argued any number of ways, and it still all comes down to European regionalism identity vs. European unitary nationalism identity.

Ethnicity is based on common national and cultural tradition. Over 400 years of formal common nationality and culture exists in the case of Poland and Lithuania.
Not to dispute anything you say, because I know next to nothing about Lithuania and Poland, but the Moors ruled Spain for 700 years!!! (711-1492; when Columbus sailed the ocean blue). Most Spaniards and Spanish culture do not identify as being Arab or Islamic today.
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  #99  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 10:53 PM
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Yeah, I’ve learned the Sicilian as Italian description amounts to fightin words.
Only with la cosa nostra and pizza parlor owners in New Jersey.
HBO
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  #100  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 10:55 PM
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there is some political element to Eastern European ethnicity, but the picture is complex.

See e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4558026/

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