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  #1  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 2:29 PM
C. C. is offline
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Who is building the most in North America?

I occasionally look at the Toronto City Compilation thread. Absolutely amazing how much is going on there. I'm curious how this compares to New York or other cities in North America.

The stats on skyscrapers are easy enough to find here and on Emporis. But I'm curious too about any kind of urban (as opposed to rural or suburban) development.
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  #2  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 3:10 PM
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I'd guess probably between Toronto, Vancouver, New York and Miami/South FL. If you consider Jersey City aside from New York it is also very impressive on its own.

Most other places are pretty tepid, and new projects are pretty infrequently being released now, mainly because of the urban to subruban bleed seen nationwide. This is less of a problem in Canada since violent crime isn't really a thing.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 3:23 PM
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They are not skyscrapers, of course, because of the Height Act restrictions but DC has the most most tower cranes of any city in the United States.

https://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/bl...tionwide/18114
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  #4  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist View Post
They are not skyscrapers, of course, because of the Height Act restrictions but DC has the most most tower cranes of any city in the United States.

https://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/bl...tionwide/18114
DC is impressive, but gets overlooked because of the height limit.

I guess one way to look at this would be number of multi-family units being constructed and the number of commercial square footage but minus space attributable to office parks, if any.

DC is probably top 3.

--
Also, can a mod move this to the city discussion forum?
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  #5  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 4:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bossabreezes View Post
If you consider Jersey City aside from New York it is also very impressive on its own.
I do and when you consider a city of its size, it definitely punches above its weight class.
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  #6  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 5:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossabreezes View Post
I'd guess probably between Toronto, Vancouver, New York and Miami/South FL. If you consider Jersey City aside from New York it is also very impressive on its own.

Most other places are pretty tepid, and new projects are pretty infrequently being released now, mainly because of the urban to subruban bleed seen nationwide. This is less of a problem in Canada since violent crime isn't really a thing.
Miami/South FL isn't building all that much these days, especially compared to the wild construction of the 2005-2008 days or even the 2014-2018 days. There are fewer projects now but they are generally bigger, and nothing geared or marketed towards locals is ever built hence our lack of housing supply.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 3:23 PM
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Mexico city?
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  #8  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 3:38 PM
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Three of the most explosive mid-sized MSA/CSA's are Nashville, Austin and Salt Lake City. As far as I know in certain types of development there is nothing tepid about either of these three. Salt Lake's three interlocking metros have been experiencing boomtown growth for more than a decade now, and it is only accelerating. Even COVID couldn't make a dent in many of its development niches. All sectors of its economic expansion and infrastructure development are now on fire. Sometime before the end of this decade Greater Salt Lake City will move in to the 3 million-plus category.
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  #9  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 4:42 PM
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Atlanta is far from tepid. There are highrises and midrises starting weekly. I don’t understand the ‘tepid’ comment at all. Practically all the medium sized metros across the southeast are booming with construction activity. In Atlanta and Nashville, they are really experiencing the largest intown expansions in their histories I would say and that’s a lot given the growth of these cities in the 90’s.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 6:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlriser View Post
Atlanta is far from tepid. There are highrises and midrises starting weekly. I don’t understand the ‘tepid’ comment at all. Practically all the medium sized metros across the southeast are booming with construction activity. In Atlanta and Nashville, they are really experiencing the largest intown expansions in their histories I would say and that’s a lot given the growth of these cities in the 90’s.
I know everyone has hometown booster-ism and there is certainty a lot of development happening in Atlanta, but it's an awful lot of "Houston Donuts" in the suburbs -- not exactly the most urban type of development.

What's the multi-family housing starts for Atlanta proper?
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  #11  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 6:27 PM
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Data from Emporis on number of 12+ floors buildings under construction in select US cities. Please feel free to update the numbers below if the data on Emporis is inaccurate.

New York City - 299
Toronto - 243
Houston - 81
Miami - 38
Chicago - 34
Panama City, Panama - 27
Detroit - 26
Los Angeles - 25
Atlanta - 21
Seattle - 17 (22 per mhays)
Philadelphia - 17
Jersey City - 16
Boston - 12
Dallas - 12
Bellevue - 11

Last edited by C.; Jun 23, 2021 at 7:08 PM.
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  #12  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 7:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C. View Post
Data from Emporis on number of 12+ floors buildings under construction in select US cities. Please feel free to update the numbers below if the data on Emporis is inaccurate.

New York City - 299
Toronto - 243
Houston - 81
Miami - 38
Chicago - 34
Panama City, Panama - 27
Detroit - 26
Los Angeles - 25
Atlanta - 21
Seattle - 17 (22 per mhays)
Philadelphia - 17
Jersey City - 16
Boston - 12
Dallas - 12
Bellevue - 11
In respect of Toronto, the website www.urbantoronto.ca is probably the definitive source.

In respect of what's 'under construction'........

Under-construction
100-199m = 78
200-299m = 10
300m+ = 2

You can count the total number or work out the 12-storey number using their database:

https://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/
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  #13  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 9:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C. View Post
Data from Emporis on number of 12+ floors buildings under construction in select US cities. Please feel free to update the numbers below if the data on Emporis is inaccurate.

New York City - 299
Toronto - 243
Houston - 81
Miami - 38
Chicago - 34
Panama City, Panama - 27
Detroit - 26
Los Angeles - 25
Atlanta - 21
Seattle - 17 (22 per mhays)
Philadelphia - 17
Jersey City - 16
Boston - 12
Dallas - 12
Bellevue - 11
Is there a list for just office buildings?
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  #14  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C. View Post
Data from Emporis on number of 12+ floors buildings under construction in select US cities. Please feel free to update the numbers below if the data on Emporis is inaccurate.

New York City - 299
Toronto - 243
Houston - 81
Miami - 38
Chicago - 34
Panama City, Panama - 27
Detroit - 26
Los Angeles - 25
Atlanta - 21
Seattle - 17 (22 per mhays)
Philadelphia - 17
Jersey City - 16
Boston - 12
Dallas - 12
Bellevue - 11
No matter how much Torontonians wish they were in the us theyr are still in Canada last I checked.
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  #15  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2021, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Darkoshvilli View Post
No matter how much Torontonians wish they were in the us theyr are still in Canada last I checked.
With no slight intended to our American cousins, I don't think you'll find a large number of Torontonians wishing their City were on the other side of the border. LOL
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  #16  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2021, 2:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Darkoshvilli View Post
No matter how much Torontonians wish they were in the us theyr are still in Canada last I checked.
I've referred to Toronto's American obsession a gazillion times on SSP, but I don't actually think any of this is related to a desire to be *part* of the US.

For the people I have in mind, it's more an idea that they're building a better America, or a better American city. Outside the US.

All of the good stuff about the US, minus all of the bad stuff.
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  #17  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2021, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C. View Post
Data from Emporis on number of 12+ floors buildings under construction in select US cities. Please feel free to update the numbers below if the data on Emporis is inaccurate.

New York City - 299
Toronto - 243
Houston - 81
Miami - 38
Chicago - 34
Panama City, Panama - 27
Detroit - 26
Los Angeles - 25
Atlanta - 21
Seattle - 17 (22 per mhays)
Philadelphia - 17
Jersey City - 16
Boston - 12
Dallas - 12
Bellevue - 11
Per the atlanta projects construction compilation thread, which smArTaLlone does a great job of maintaining, it looks like the count (above 12 stories) in city proper is 36. 18 midtown, 12 downtown and beltline east, 6 buckhead. downtown has three buildings near or over 30 floors now under construction (40, 32, 29) and a handful of others over 20 - the first time in who knows how long where there is more activity downtown than in buckhead. hmm, maybe i'll go take the drone for a spin tonight
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  #18  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 5:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C. View Post
Data from Emporis on number of 12+ floors buildings under construction in select US cities. Please feel free to update the numbers below if the data on Emporis is inaccurate.

New York City - 299
Toronto - 243
Houston - 81
Miami - 38
Chicago - 34
Panama City, Panama - 27
Detroit - 26
Los Angeles - 25
Atlanta - 21
Seattle - 17 (22 per mhays)
Philadelphia - 17
Jersey City - 16
Boston - 12
Dallas - 12
Bellevue - 11
Most of those look so low, 12 floors really isn't very much so having large cities with millions of people have only twenty or thirty such buildings under construction seems like nothing.
I suppose this makes sense because of the American style of having a skyscraper area in the centre and almost everything else be low rise, but it is still jarring.

For comparison I tried doing this in Tel Aviv from my country where 12 floors is an average apartment building that could go up all over the metro:
Tel Aviv municipal borders (466K population): 92
Tel Aviv metro (4.1M population): 493
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  #19  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 6:08 PM
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Originally Posted by daniel View Post
Most of those look so low, 12 floors really isn't very much so having large cities with millions of people have only twenty or thirty such buildings under construction seems like nothing.
I suppose this makes sense because of the American style of having a skyscraper area in the centre and almost everything else be low rise, but it is still jarring.

For comparison I tried doing this in Tel Aviv from my country where 12 floors is an average apartment building that could go up all over the metro:
Tel Aviv municipal borders (466K population): 92
Tel Aviv metro (4.1M population): 493
That's because Tel Aviv is most multi-family housing. The U.S. puts most of its housing into low density, single family housing suburbs, even in fast growing areas.
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  #20  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2021, 7:21 PM
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As for this debate over whether MSA or CSA numbers more accurately describe SLC, SLC is in a unique situation. I can’t think of another metro with a larger disparity between its CSA and MSA figures. The fact of the matter is, every American metropolis is different, and there are no perfectly defined borders that can be used to determine where exactly the edge of suburbia lies and which populations should or shouldn’t count as part of the metro.

For example, neither the MSA nor the CSA definitions work well for my current city (Denver). One excludes Boulder, which is obviously part of the metropolis; the other includes Boulder but also includes a bunch of far-off towns which are obviously not part of the metropolis. The true population of this metro is somewhere in between.

As is the case with SLC.

I’ve spent much time in that town, having been a truck driver with a dedicated route based out of SLC (Costco distribution center), which meant I spent every other night there and had countless back-hauls that led to seemingly innumerable points within the metropolis - and having visited at least once a year all throughout my life since childhood, because my family is from Sandy and most of my family still lives there. Even in my current job as a flatbed driver I’ve picked up countless loads from Interstate Brick in West Jordan, delivered countless loads to the IFA DC on West 1700 South, etc, etc, etc. I know the town well. I know many towns well.

I think all of you on either side of the “how big is SLC” debate are kidding yourselves. I think it’s obvious SLC isn’t nearly as large or prominent as its CSA peers such as St Louis or Pittsburgh. It doesn’t feel that way, on the ground, within those towns, at all; nor does it feel that way in terms of the cultural, historical and economic gravitational pull those towns exert within the American collective consciousness. It’s equally obvious SLC is far larger and more prominent than its MSA peers such as Louisville or Buffalo. Those cities don’t belong in the same conversation with SLC.

It’s somewhere in between. And unfortunately a number in between those vastly disparate CSA and MSA figures - a number that could be used to accurately rank SLC among its peers - doesn’t exist. More than any other metropolis I can think of, SLC doesn’t have a definitive size that will work within the realm of this forum and its home-town-boosting, city-vs-city culture. There just isn’t a good, useful number for poor SLC.

Edit: I propose we just use SLC’s CSA figure when we’re making comparisons, and call it good. I mean, close enough. Otherwise we’re just going to keep getting hung up on this.

Last edited by Sam Hill; Jun 26, 2021 at 7:43 PM.
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