WINNIPEG | Portage Place Redevelopment

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

You're a racist P.O.S endlessly on here. You got called out for it. Deal with it.

Your attempted subtlety is laughable at best. Sorry there is some struggling Indigenous people downtown. Stay at Earls and keep creeping on waitresses, chud.

Just curious, how come First Nations leadership that is so quick to point out any wrong perceived against any of their people stays so silent on the plight of homeless First Nations living in urban areas?

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

You're a racist P.O.S endlessly on here. You got called out for it. Deal with it.

Your attempted subtlety is laughable at best. Sorry there is some struggling Indigenous people downtown. Stay at Earls and keep creeping on waitresses, chud.

Just curious, how come First Nations leadership that is so quick to point out any wrong perceived against any of their people stays so silent on the plight of homeless First Nations living in urban areas?

You seem to think your an expert on this, what’s your take?

[Trutherteller]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Just curious, how come First Nations leadership that is so quick to point out any wrong perceived against any of their people stays so silent on the plight of homeless First Nations living in urban areas?

You seem to think your an expert on this, what’s your take?

Oh look racist dipshit is 'just asking questions' again! Since you're so much smarter than everyone else (like all cons apparently) what's YOUR solution? Once again I'm amazed you grace this city with your presence since you're so fucking superior to the rest of us with your big boy brain

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by Trutherteller

Oh look racist dipshit is 'just asking questions' again! Since you're so much smarter than everyone else (like all cons apparently) what's YOUR solution? Once again I'm amazed you grace this city with your presence since you're so fucking superior to the rest of us with your big boy brain

Can you tone it down please, you’re contributing nothing if you are not capable of a civilized discussion.

[anthonyk]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

Can you tone it down please, you’re contributing nothing if you are not capable of a civilized discussion.

^^^^^

No matter which side you are on, we shouldn't be throwing insults at each other, that does not bring anything of value to the discussion.

[pegcityboy]

I think rrskylar has a valid question there and just because you don’t like the question doesn’t mean it’s racist , I personally don’t think the question is racist at all , it’s a valid question, just walk around in Downtown there is quite abit of homelessness around and a lot of them are Indigenous that’s just the hard cold facts .

[esquire]

Looks like accusations of racism are being used in an effort to shut down the conversation.

Frankly, I don't think anyone would feel any better about the situation if all of the transients hanging out downtown were all Dutch or Uruguayan. It's not the ethnicity of the people in question that is the problem. It is the conduct and behaviour that is repelling to people. And let's be real, there is no shortage of sketchy white guys downtown. No ethnic group has a monopoly on that.

[pegcityboy]

Well said , Esquire .

[rrskylar]

Calling racism on everything has become old and tiresome, dialogue and any type of critical thought seems lost on many today!

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by esquire

Looks like accusations of racism are being used in an effort to shut down the conversation.

Frankly, I don't think anyone would feel any better about the situation if all of the transients hanging out downtown were all Dutch or Uruguayan. It's not the ethnicity of the people in question that is the problem. It is the conduct and behaviour that is repelling to people. And let's be real, there is no shortage of sketchy white guys downtown. No ethnic group has a monopoly on that.

When the guy only has commentary of disgust to offer about "them" on issues related to any Indigenous people on this forum, he's a racist. He comments on no other issue.

Sorry the term makes some of you uncomfortable. Don't be one if you don't want to be called out.

If you're actually concerned about the issues offer solutions, don't just post endlessly about how "they" and "them" will just shuffle from place to place and harm your delicate sensibilities.

If you think racism doesn't play into the perception of downtown and how it in turn informs what takes place then man you just have your head buried in the sand.

[Luisito]

Aside from false accusations and insults, gaslighting is another popular thing to do. We have just seen it several times in the last few pages and here is yet another fine example.

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

When the guy only has commentary of disgust to offer about "them" on issues related to any Indigenous people on this forum, he's a racist. He comments on no other issue.

Sorry the term makes some of you uncomfortable. Don't be one if you don't want to be called out.

If you're actually concerned about the issues offer solutions, don't just post endlessly about how "they" and "them" will just shuffle from place to place and harm your delicate sensibilities.

If you think racism doesn't play into the perception of downtown and how it in turn informs what takes place then man you just have your head buried in the sand.

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Calling racism on everything has become old and tiresome,

Indeed. The accusations of racism about every little thing even when it' not true has cuased the term to lose it's real meaning.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

If you think racism doesn't play into the perception of downtown and how it in turn informs what takes place then man you just have your head buried in the sand.

Imagine the crime rate downtown and general level of mayhem remains the same. Except all of it is now committed by blond-haired, blue-eyed white people. Do you really think people will suddenly conclude that downtown is in great shape?

People want to be able to go downtown and not have to worry about being harrassed, assaulted or robbed. I don't think they are particularly concerned about the ethnicity of the harrasser or the assailant. And as I've pointed out before, there are plenty of white folks and people of other backgrounds who misbehave downtown. No one has a monopoly on this.

[GreyGarden]

I think there is a better way to approach this. For the record, I think some members on this forum do sometimes engage in outright racism. But I think the majority of people don’t hold explicitly racist views. I think many people, in many cities, hold explicitly negative views of poor people and homeless people. To be honest, I get it, and I sometimes do as well. When I’m on the bus and some guy reeks like mouthwash and is screaming at people, I find myself wishing that there weren’t so many poor people in inner city Winnipeg.

The problem Winnipeg faces, is that for a bunch of historical reasons, Indigenous people are over represented in our homeless population. So policies that attempt to hide or “deal with” homeless people have a disproportionate impact on Indigenous people even though they’re targeted at poor people, not Indigenous people.

Of course there are racists in Winnipeg, but when I think about racism in Winnipeg, I think it’s more worthwhile to consider how “neutral” policies that target poverty can take on a racial element given the demographic realities of the City.

I think I agree with Esquire. Most people just want to feel safe and comfortable downtown. Homeless people make people feel unsafe and uncomfortable, myself included at times. Further, they can be dangerous at times.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

I think there is a better way to approach this. For the record, I think some members on this forum do sometimes engage in outright racism. But I think the majority of people don’t hold explicitly racist views. I think many people, in many cities, hold explicitly negative views of poor people and homeless people. To be honest, I get it, and I sometimes do as well. When I’m on the bus and some guy reeks like mouthwash and is screaming at people, I find myself wishing that there weren’t so many poor people in inner city Winnipeg.

The problem Winnipeg faces, is that for a bunch of historical reasons, Indigenous people are over represented in our homeless population. So policies that attempt to hide or “deal with” homeless people have a disproportionate impact on Indigenous people even though they’re targeted at poor people, not Indigenous people.

Of course there are racists in Winnipeg, but when I think about racism in Winnipeg, I think it’s more worthwhile to consider how “neutral” policies that target poverty can take on a racial element given the demographic realities of the City.

I think I agree with Esquire. Most people just want to feel safe and comfortable downtown. Homeless people make people feel unsafe and uncomfortable, myself included at times. Further, they can be dangerous at times.

I don't think a lot of people are truly racist- it definitely exists in the health care system though. Our issues are really no different than the perception of black people in the US. We see one minority that is disproportionately represented in the criminal justice system, suffering from substance use issues and houselessness and the natural response is "fix the problem." And let's face it- when we are downtown and see the social issues, it makes us uncomfortable. For some people, it's a genuine fear of safety, but for others it's the fact that our social problems are looking at us right in the face.

However, while I truly believe that Canadians have gone much further to address Indigenous oppression and trauma than Americans have towards BLM, for example, there is still this perception (from my experience only in dealing with government) that Indigenous people themselves offer no solutions to the problem. I hear this comment that surfaces most often- "where are Indigenous leaders?" "Why aren't they helping their own people?" And it's a fair question- because I don't really see Indigenous leaders stepping up. I very much still see a blaming culture with the perception that "white" people need to fix it. And we do. We need to address the racism and trauma that Indigenous people have experienced, but I just don't see the partnerships that are needed to address the problems and I blame both government and Indigenous leaders for that.

[GreyGarden]

I kind of disagree re Indigenous leaders stepping up. I also see a lot of comments in Winnipeg asking this question.

I think part of the problem is that there is no “leader”. There are groups, organizations, and associations, but they do not speak with one voice. I also think they’re pretty limited in what they can do. Most large scale solutions to problems impacting Indigenous people has to have a Federal component to it. I think the best the city can really do is give Indigenous groups and organizations the opportunity to collaborate on policy addressing poverty.

[Luisito]

I have been all over this country and have lived in four other provinces and in Canadas two largest cities. I have also lived in the US. As someone who is BIPOC myself, my experience in Winnipeg is that it is the least racist city I have ever been to. Living in Winnipeg is also the first time i have lived in a NDP stronghold.

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by Luisito

Aside from false accusations and insults, gaslighting is another popular thing to do. We have just seen it several times in the last few pages and here is yet another fine example.

Hahaha gaslighting. Next thing you're going to be calling us all groomers.

Sorry bud, you are what you are. Everyone else on this forum can discuss issues with nuance and solutions. You and the other chud, rrskylar, have nothing of value to contribute ever, aside from not so veiled commentary. Sorry, not sorry, for calling you two out on it.

First nations groups and organizations have taken far more of a lead on solving their homeless issues within the city than any municipal politician has done to this point in time for any group of people. I suggest you educate yourself and realize that the actual first nations themselves have very little power off reserve to do anything more than purchase housing and establish support services for band members in urban areas, which has increased dramatically over the past years in Brandon, Selkirk, Winnipeg, Flin Flon, and Thompson. What have our municipal leaders done? Sweet F.A.

But you wouldn't want to know that as it destroys your whole narrative.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by Jammon

I don't think a lot of people are truly racist- it definitely exists in the health care system though. Our issues are really no different than the perception of black people in the US. We see one minority that is disproportionately represented in the criminal justice system, suffering from substance use issues and houselessness and the natural response is "fix the problem." And let's face it- when we are downtown and see the social issues, it makes us uncomfortable. For some people, it's a genuine fear of safety, but for others it's the fact that our social problems are looking at us right in the face.

However, while I truly believe that Canadians have gone much further to address Indigenous oppression and trauma than Americans have towards BLM, for example, there is still this perception (from my experience only in dealing with government) that Indigenous people themselves offer no solutions to the problem. I hear this comment that surfaces most often- "where are Indigenous leaders?" "Why aren't they helping their own people?" And it's a fair question- because I don't really see Indigenous leaders stepping up. I very much still see a blaming culture with the perception that "white" people need to fix it. And we do. We need to address the racism and trauma that Indigenous people have experienced, but I just don't see the partnerships that are needed to address the problems and I blame both government and Indigenous leaders for that.

IMO overall these are fair and accurate comments, however I think Indigenous leaders have started to publicly address some of these issues, but they've been in the context of two two highest-profile Indigenous-led developments in the city, the former Kapayong barracks and The Bay building.

Here's an article from back in February from the Globe & mail that seems to reflect a generally positive outlook from Indigenous community leaders on these developments and the city in general:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...e-in-winnipeg/

I think we see the "blaming culture" more in community reactions to tragedies like the recent death of the Indigenous woman whose body was found in the landfill. Personally I don't really blame people for having a "here we go again" reaction, warranted or not. I think it's a perfectly normal response to the lengthy history of mistreatment of Indigenous people. I remain hopeful that the positive we've seen from these recent projects continues.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by pspeid

IMO overall these are fair and accurate comments, however I think Indigenous leaders have started to publicly address some of these issues, but they've been in the context of two two highest-profile Indigenous-led developments in the city, the former Kapayong barracks and The Bay building.

Here's an article from back in February from the Globe & mail that seems to reflect a generally positive outlook from Indigenous community leaders on these developments and the city in general:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...e-in-winnipeg/

I think we see the "blaming culture" more in community reactions to tragedies like the recent death of the Indigenous woman whose body was found in the landfill. Personally I don't really blame people for having a "here we go again" reaction, warranted or not. I think it's a perfectly normal response to the lengthy history of mistreatment of Indigenous people. I remain hopeful that the positive we've seen from these recent projects continues.

Good points. I think this conversation is fair one as we loop it back in to the discussion for the Portage Place redevelopment project. There are fair concerns that I understand that these projects will somehow become another Thunderbird House. And it's a very fair comment. That beautiful building which was supposed to be a place of sharing and healing and coming together has been utterly destroyed. And I can understand why people have that fear. But the reality is that we can only provide more social services to the people where they are in hopes that it might begin to address some of these problems as they exist. I really am hopeful this project will start to address some of the social inadequacies and spur further development on that awful stretch of Portage Ave.