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  #7181  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2021, 7:27 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
July 23, 2021
Put away the COVID-shot carrots. It's time for some sticks.

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/opin...me-some-sticks
Disagree.

We aren’t going to eliminate Covid, which would be the only real purpose of universal vaccination. It’s not polio. Vaccinated people protected and unvaccinated people (most of whom will be fine) are not. So what.
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  #7182  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2021, 7:31 PM
eschaton eschaton is offline
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It's worth noting even if we could miraculously get high vaccine uptake tomorrow, it would take an additional 6 weeks or so until those vaccinated today became protected - and another 2 weeks for it to actually register in national numbers.

In contrast, some easing back into social distancing by the non-vaccinated would slow down the growth of case counts almost immediately (like, within 2 weeks).
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  #7183  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2021, 7:36 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
In contrast, some easing back into social distancing by the non-vaccinated would slow down the growth of case counts almost immediately (like, within 2 weeks).
The mask guidance / mandate was never lifted for the unvaccinated. The guidance has always been that only vaccinated people were protected enough to go without masks. I'm not sure that reimposing a blanket mask mandate actually fixes the issue.

Last edited by iheartthed; Jul 23, 2021 at 8:02 PM.
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  #7184  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2021, 7:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Disagree.

We aren’t going to eliminate Covid, which would be the only real purpose of universal vaccination. It’s not polio. Vaccinated people protected and unvaccinated people (most of whom will be fine) are not. So what.
We aren't going to eliminate Covid because the extent of politicization and non compliance. When polio hit, everyone just got vaccinated. Those who thought Jonas Salk was injecting vacuum tubes into their bodies had no voice.
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  #7185  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2021, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ And this is where you repeatedly and, mind-numbingly, just fail to grasp what others are saying.

Being "deadly" has EVERYTHING to do with it. I don't get how this idea keeps sailing way over your head. If catching COVID (for vaccinated people) does not cause any meaningful death rate above, say, common cold or Flu or RSV, then there is nothing more to care about.

But I'm sure you still don't get it, because you are being willfully obstinate about this particular issue.
No, you are being befuddled.

I am talking about the virus being deadly, not the disease and I am responding to a point made by someone else. The issue was about viral mutations not covid. You are just setting up a straw man in this comment because the discussion seems to be beyond you (which I find astounding but true).
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  #7186  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2021, 8:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
We aren't going to eliminate Covid because the extent of politicization and non compliance. When polio hit, everyone just got vaccinated. Those who thought Jonas Salk was injecting vacuum tubes into their bodies had no voice.
Covid is likely to eliminate itself if we don't. There will be more death and disease that way, but I suspect it will happen.
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  #7187  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2021, 8:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Disagree.

We aren’t going to eliminate Covid, which would be the only real purpose of universal vaccination. It’s not polio. Vaccinated people protected and unvaccinated people (most of whom will be fine) are not. So what.
The degree to which people who've had covid are "fine" in the long run is not known at this point.

Quote:
As Vaccines Do Their Work, Focus Moves to Long Covid
By Denise Roland
July 23, 2021 7:00 am ET

As vaccines blunt the threat of severe illness and death from Covid-19, millions of people remain at risk of developing an array of less serious but potentially debilitating long-term symptoms of the disease that scientists call long Covid.

Many of the most vulnerable are among younger unvaccinated people who are unprotected against the rapidly spreading Delta variant of the coronavirus, now responsible for more than 80% of America’s growing caseload.

Long Covid—a term referring to symptoms that linger for weeks or months beyond infection—affects between 10% and 30% of people who catch the virus, including those with mild or asymptomatic infections, according to experts. In some cases, symptoms persist for more than a year.

“Even if it’s not as striking as people dying, you ignore it at your peril,” said Danny Altmann, professor of immunology at Imperial College London. “In terms of healthcare burden or healthcare cost, we’re on track for this being as big a problem to us as rheumatoid arthritis, the biggest autoimmune disease in the world” . . . .

“Long Covid is real,” said Priya Duggal, professor of epidemiology at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. “Now we have a whole group of individuals who have survived Covid who are going on into a chronic [long-term] state that will likely be with us for a really long time.”

The scale of the issue has spurred governments to pour large sums into researching long Covid. The National Institutes of Health has committed $1.15 billion over four years for investigating the condition, while its U.K. counterpart has so far provided nearly £40 million, the equivalent of $54 million, to fund research projects investigating causes, diagnostic methods, and possible treatments.

Long Covid is associated with a bewildering array of possible symptoms; a recent survey of people with confirmed or suspected long Covid by researchers at University College London identified more than 200, spanning visual hallucinations, heart palpitations and memory loss.

Still, certain symptoms crop up repeatedly. The majority of people with long Covid report fatigue as the dominant symptom alongside muscle aches, difficulty sleeping and shortness of breath, according to a large study by researchers at Imperial College London. Another, smaller, cluster of patients reported predominantly respiratory symptoms, including shortness of breath and chest pain or tightness. Other studies have identified cognitive issues, or “brain fog,” as another common symptom.

Although severe infection is more likely to lead to long Covid, large numbers of people who had mild cases have also suffered from persistent symptoms. The Imperial study, which surveyed a random sample of more than half a million people from across England, found that around a quarter of the 21,454 people who had suffered a mild infection reported at least one symptom lasting 12 weeks or more. Those who had suffered severe infection had even higher odds of going on to experience at least one persistent symptom, around half. The study, published on the MedRxiv preprint server, hasn’t yet been peer reviewed and so is preliminary.

Long Covid has raised alarm bells for its tendency to strike the young in a way that severe illness and death haven’t. The Imperial study found that among those aged 18 to 24, about 30% of those who had knowingly caught Covid-19 reported at least one symptom lasting 12 weeks or longer . . . .

Researchers suspect that long Covid likely comprises several overlapping conditions, with different causes, and several large studies are under way to try to pin some of those down. Among the leading theories are that the virus triggers some kind of autoimmune condition, that it causes lasting physical damage to various organs, and that the virus lingers in the body long after infection.

There is no proven treatment for long Covid, although researchers in the U.K. are embarking on clinical trials to establish whether some widely available anti-inflammatory drugs such as aspirin, gout treatment colchicine and antihistamines could help. Meanwhile, hospitals are establishing dedicated clinics to help people cope with their symptoms . . . .
https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-vacc...id-11627038001

The symptoms could be auto-immune as this article suggests but we know covid is associated with pathologic blood clotting and these syptoms sound to me an awful lot like they could be the result of scattered micro-thrombi or emboli.
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  #7188  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2021, 8:26 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
The degree to which people who've had covid are "fine" in the long run is not known at this point.
^ So obviously, assume the worst case scenario, right Howard?

How's basement life?
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  #7189  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2021, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ So obviously, assume the worst case scenario, right Howard?

How's basement life?
You're obsessed and simply don't know what you are talking about. Also, you never post fact any more--just your own opinion which is unsupported by fact.
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  #7190  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2021, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
We aren't going to eliminate Covid because the extent of politicization and non compliance. When polio hit, everyone just got vaccinated. Those who thought Jonas Salk was injecting vacuum tubes into their bodies had no voice.
No, we aren’t going to eliminate Covid because it’s an easily transmissible and not very deadly respiratory virus. Polio is spread by fecal-mouth contact. You don’t get it because someone on the same bus coughs. Better hygiene and clean water had as much to do with it as vaccination.

And it wouldn’t matter how much political alignment and compliance existed in the US, it would still be present around the world, which is more globalised and interconnected.

There is very little vaccine resistance in the U.K., relative to the US or even France, and it won’t be eliminated here either.
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  #7191  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2021, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
No, we aren’t going to eliminate Covid because it’s an easily transmissible and not very deadly respiratory virus. Polio is spread by fecal-mouth contact. You don’t get it because someone on the same bus coughs. Better hygiene and clean water had as much to do with it as vaccination.

And it wouldn’t matter how much political alignment and compliance existed in the US, it would still be present around the world, which is more globalised and interconnected.

There is very little vaccine resistance in the U.K., relative to the US or even France, and it won’t be eliminated here either.
The water did not suddenly get cleaner in 1955 but polio almost disappeared in developed countries.
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  #7192  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2021, 11:45 PM
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the SW Missouri Delta varient hotspot thats been on the news is spreading NE, StL City and County instituting mask mandates.
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  #7193  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2021, 1:39 AM
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They're b-a-a-a-c-k!



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  #7194  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2021, 9:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
The water did not suddenly get cleaner in 1955 but polio almost disappeared in developed countries.
But it was never as widespread before that. Eliminating Covid through vaccination is like eliminating influenza through vaccination. Not going to happen.

Covid is most analogous to a bad flu. It’s nothing like polio.
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  #7195  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2021, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
They're b-a-a-a-c-k!



^^^
They may be back but where are the riders? Used to be so crowded people would be hanging off the sides.
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  #7196  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2021, 1:09 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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^ They re all working from home.

That’s the irony of San Francisco’s role of being the premier tech center. A victim of its own success, tech made it possible for all of the overpaid & socially awkward dorks that once commuted to their jobs to now fulfill their lifelong dream of no longer having to interact with people.

They can now eat Cheetos on their couch and play with their computers while getting paid.

Meanwhile the city and commercial landlords sit there wondering, “Now what the fuck are we gonna do?”
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  #7197  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2021, 1:43 PM
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But remote is a great lifestyle. One of the highlights last summer working from home was when I had an appointment for a regular checkup with my primary care physician. Before the appointment I made him get on Zoom - the thing cool people use, and on one monitor I worked and the other I demanded and watched him wipe down his office with Clorox wipes. Sometimes I had to point out spots he missed. Once I was satisfied I went the appointment. After my appointment I made him write an email to me thanking me for my business, of course this was before I paid him. Paying that bill is still up in the air as I push that can down the road as long as I can. I walked out of his office laughing and thinking that idiot has to wear a mask at work all day and go into an office. Once home I went back to my couch to work.
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  #7198  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2021, 3:20 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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^
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  #7199  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2021, 3:29 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by CaliNative View Post
^^^
They may be back but where are the riders? Used to be so crowded people would be hanging off the sides.
Looks like they're testing it. Also, aren't the cable cars mostly just a tourist trap now?
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  #7200  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2021, 3:47 PM
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Sounds like some Australians are finally growing a pair?

https://apple.news/A7ZZI4U1KTz2N54s0dJKnXQ
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