PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by domodeez

Yes, one of the many images I saw in the concept plan. By the way, when I said it would be used to pitch to investors, that includes the public sector for funding all this new infrastructure.

So are you telling me that this is all fake advertising?

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

So are you telling me that this is all fake advertising?

It's not "fake" per se. It does show that people are thinking about the future of that area and what it could look like. But it's still just a concept plan. The area will be built out over time, and local officials/BPG can try to steer development to fit into that plan, but ultimately it will be determined by market forces and what developers decide to build, and when. It won't be a totally unified process, and each building design/use will be determined individually. Most (if not all, idk what BPG is planning) of those buildings shown are nothing more than an idea of what "could be." That's not to say conceptual planning isn't important. If you can use a concept plan to sell developers and investors on what "could be," and make them believe that building out the plan will generate good returns for them, you have a better chance of making it real. Conceptual plans bring various stakeholders together to think about how to develop the area, which again will make it more likely that the plan will come together in some form or another.

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

It's not "fake" per se. It does show that people are thinking about the future of that area and what it could look like. But it's still just a concept plan. The area will be built out over time, and local officials/BPG can try to steer development to fit into that plan, but ultimately it will be determined by market forces and what developers decide to build, and when. It won't be a totally unified process, and each building design/use will be determined individually. Most (if not all, idk what BPG is planning) of those buildings shown are nothing more than an idea of what "could be." That's not to say conceptual planning isn't important. If you can use a concept plan to sell developers and investors on what "could be," and make them believe that building out the plan will generate good returns for them, you have a better chance of making it real. Conceptual plans bring various stakeholders together to think about how to develop the area, which again will make it more likely that the plan will come together in some form or another.

Then my question would be "What's next?". All of the Wilmington development I'm aware of has either already happened or is nearing completion.

[Slyfox]

In reference to the property next to midtown park, I have heard so many different things now I will believe it when I see it. A BPG employee told me it's going to be a dog park, then a buddy of mine who lives in midtown got an email from the midtown property management saying it's going to be a beer garden.....now this post says it'll be apartments. Apartments would be best, hope that's true.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by Slyfox

In reference to the property next to midtown park, I have heard so many different things now I will believe it when I see it. A BPG employee told me it's going to be a dog park, then a buddy of mine who lives in midtown got an email from the midtown property management saying it's going to be a beer garden.....now this post says it'll be apartments. Apartments would be best, hope that's true.

Yeah, I agree. So more specifically, I was told BPG is in the process of trying to get some sort of historical tax credit first, then rehab the buildings into apts. I guess we shall see...

As to jonesrmj, I know it's tough--but try to be patient! I think the new bridge completion, bike trail, 76ers Fieldhouse, 2 new hotels u/c, the big? new BPG apt building beginning on the 200 block of Market St., and all the other apt conversions, also the Food Hall in the DuPont Building is almost completed...all these things are a great start to 2019. Also, the transit center down near the Train Station is under u/c might help lead to more downtown development. It's all a work in progress. This mayor is definitely light years more competent than the previous few administrations--and it's showing (although, I'd like a little more transparency re: BPG-City relations). Hopefully, other developers are paying attention (besides BPG and Capano), it will only speed up the process to get more developers investing and rebuilding the city. (btw--maybe the group building 2000 Penn. Ave have something else planned -- I noticed the gas station across the street from their building u/c was demolished and fencing is up with sales/investment opportunity signs).

[summersm343]

Wilmington

Is this maybe what's coming on the other side of the river? Is this the same site that they're working on?





https://l2p.com/confidential-client-5

[summersm343]

Wilmington

Has anyone seen this? Corner of Justison St and West St on the Riverfront.







https://l2p.com/justison-landing

[summersm343]

Wilmington

...And yet another project for the other side of the river. Right at the corner of Walnut St and A St.







https://l2p.com/walnut-bridge

[jsbrook]

^ Re Justison, I've seen these renders and heard about this some time ago. But nothing recent, and no indication it's moving forward anytime soon (that I've seen). I wonder if a mixed use building with some residential might work better. At last check, even with Harlan Flats and the more recent developments, most of the retail strip at Justison Landing remains vacant. I think there is still just the wine store, Starbucks, and the hair place/spa. They desperately need a critical mass of residents to create the demand for stores. When I had a crash pad there, I always thought that strip should have a dry cleaners and a little food store/bodega type place.

[jsbrook]

Looks like they actually have a pet store now: https://www.google.com/maps/place/12...!4d-75.5590563 That's at least a little progress since I was last there.

[3rd&Brown]

FYI.

Toll Brothers has a new development posted on its website called "Franklin Station" in Media, Delaware County. It's advertised as a "Resort Community" with Condominiums, Carriage Homes, and Single Family Homes.

No renders or masterplan is available yet, but I assume this is the Franklin Mint property.

Excited to see this developed but hate that it's Toll. I hate that they're the builder of choice in the region. So generic (and cheap).

[Slyfox]

In regards to the Riverfront renderings, I agree those came out awhile ago. I think someone posted them on here like 3 or 4 years ago then they disappeared, I remember searching for them awhile ago and they were deleted or taken down but they've been around for awhile. It wouldn't make sense for them to build all that office space when the City of Wilmington has a HUGE amount of vacant commercial space they can't seem to rent which will only be compounded by BOA vacating two of their office buildings to consolidate into one. Unless they scored some big corporate tenant that they're keeping under wraps.


It's beautiful, but I don't think it'll happen anytime soon. And to piggyback off jsbrook, agreed. The riverfront storefront could do with a dry cleaners and some sort of market for food basics, also a pharmacy would be great, all the basics within walking distance for the riverfront residents.

The problem is there probably arn't enough residents yet to support those types of businesses, and it seems like they're almost out of room to build more residential which is why I was dissapointed they built two hotels down there instead of more apartments.

[Jawnadelphia]

^I've been living in Harlan Flats for most of the last year. A CVS/any sort of drug store with the basics is so badly needed on the Riverfront. Especially with 3 hotels open very soon (Westin, and the two u/c) -- people need basic retail options without having to drive. Sort of a silly example, but yeah- it's great to have a pool at the building -- but when you need to drive 2-3 miles to the ShopRite on the other side of the river for some damn suntan lotion, sort of kills the "urban resort-style" living vibe.

There are still plenty of spots to develop with residential. There's a large parking lot next to Harlan Flats that is only used for the movie theater (or residents after hours), there's the spot show above--next to Justison Landing (very large corner). There's all the parking behind the Blue Rocks stadium. There's enough land between the two hotels u/c to put in another residential apt building. And of course, all of the land on the other side of the river. I think eventually there will be a walking bridge over the river closer to the Constitution Yards beer garden (in addition to the road bridge u/c).

So that rendering next to the Christina Towers is what I've been mentioning for a few months -- but who knows, it's a dirt pile.

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

^I've been living in Harlan Flats for most of the last year. A CVS/any sort of drug store with the basics is so badly needed on the Riverfront. Especially with 3 hotels open very soon (Westin, and the two u/c) -- people need basic retail options without having to drive. Sort of a silly example, but yeah- it's great to have a pool at the building -- but when you need to drive 2-3 miles to the ShopRite on the other side of the river for some damn suntan lotion, sort of kills the "urban resort-style" living vibe.

There are still plenty of spots to develop with residential. There's a large parking lot next to Harlan Flats that is only used for the movie theater (or residents after hours), there's the spot show above--next to Justison Landing (very large corner). There's all the parking behind the Blue Rocks stadium. There's enough land between the two hotels u/c to put in another residential apt building. And of course, all of the land on the other side of the river. I think eventually there will be a walking bridge over the river closer to the Constitution Yards beer garden (in addition to the road bridge u/c).

So that rendering next to the Christina Towers is what I've been mentioning for a few months -- but who knows, it's a dirt pile.

Wasn't that Walnut Street and A Street Intersection lot the original space where the Casino project was planned to be build a while ago that never happened? And those images show the River Tower at Christina Landing when it was still under construction back in 2006 so these renderings are definitely old.

[Urbanthusiat]

Drove by the Brentwood Executive Campus apartment development off Germantown Pike in East Norriton yesterday:

[domodeez]

Originally Posted by Slyfox

In regards to the Riverfront renderings, I agree those came out awhile ago. I think someone posted them on here like 3 or 4 years ago then they disappeared, I remember searching for them awhile ago and they were deleted or taken down but they've been around for awhile. It wouldn't make sense for them to build all that office space when the City of Wilmington has a HUGE amount of vacant commercial space they can't seem to rent which will only be compounded by BOA vacating two of their office buildings to consolidate into one. Unless they scored some big corporate tenant that they're keeping under wraps.


It's beautiful, but I don't think it'll happen anytime soon. And to piggyback off jsbrook, agreed. The riverfront storefront could do with a dry cleaners and some sort of market for food basics, also a pharmacy would be great, all the basics within walking distance for the riverfront residents.

The problem is there probably arn't enough residents yet to support those types of businesses, and it seems like they're almost out of room to build more residential which is why I was dissapointed they built two hotels down there instead of more apartments.

Regarding the renderings from Summers...

The first set of renderings I believe is for a Capital One plan to relocate there. I believe that's still a possibility (don't quote me on that). Years prior, there was a similar plan for the same site for ING to expand there. There have also been plans for townhomes on that parcel. The dirt infill is just being used to compact the land (a good way for BPG to save $ when digging out the Residences at Mid-Town Park hole and also to generate revenue for other development projects that need to unload dirt).

I believe the second set (commercial next to Justison Landing) is purely conceptual.

The third set I'm pretty sure was for a BPG expansion on the north side of A Street that's no longer happening. I posted those renders (or similar) on here maybe 1.5-2 years ago.

[domodeez]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

Then my question would be "What's next?". All of the Wilmington development I'm aware of has either already happened or is nearing completion.

You clearly didn't read my earlier post that *I wrote for you specifically* listing the dozens of projects in Wilmington you should be getting excited about.

[domodeez]

Originally Posted by Slyfox

In reference to the property next to midtown park, I have heard so many different things now I will believe it when I see it. A BPG employee told me it's going to be a dog park, then a buddy of mine who lives in midtown got an email from the midtown property management saying it's going to be a beer garden.....now this post says it'll be apartments. Apartments would be best, hope that's true.

Beer garden. It was presented last month at the local Preservation Commission (DRPC).

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by domodeez

Beer garden. It was presented last month at the local Preservation Commission (DRPC).

Domodeez, couple questions:
1) do you go to the Wilmington Design Review and Preservation Commission meetings?
https://www.wilmingtonde.gov/governm...ion-commission

2) is the plan to knock down those buildings next to Mid-town in order to put in a beer garden? That seems crazy to me if this is the case, and I love beer.

3) were you at the meeting that reviewed knocking down all the buildings on the 200 block of Market Street for the BPG apt building? I'm still puzzled at how there are no renderings or any signage at all on site. Does the WDRPC review the changes to be made, make recommendations, have teeth to stop demolition (similar to Historical Commission in Philly)?

[jslice]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

Domodeez, couple questions:
1) do you go to the Wilmington Design Review and Preservation Commission meetings?
https://www.wilmingtonde.gov/governm...ion-commission

2) is the plan to knock down those buildings next to Mid-town in order to put in a beer garden? That seems crazy to me if this is the case, and I love beer.

3) were you at the meeting that reviewed knocking down all the buildings on the 200 block of Market Street for the BPG apt building? I'm still puzzled at how there are no renderings or any signage at all on site. Does the WDRPC review the changes to be made, make recommendations, have teeth to stop demolition (similar to Historical Commission in Philly)?

That seems a little odd considering constitution yards already exists. I do think the area could really benefit from some nice open green spaces. A dog park would be really cool. I've always felt the riverfront should have a great playground something like Maggie Daley Park in Chicago and that would bring the families down in droves when it is warm out (maybe connect to Childrens Museum somehow).