Cities of the Americas - what's your cities most European-like neighborhood/district?

[muppet]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I agree with this. I think there is a lot of good things to say about North American urbanism.

One thing I’ve noticed about most continental European countries is that their lower density neighborhoods have houses that are usually hidden behind a 7 foot tall masonry wall. These environments are brutal to walk around in - easily as monotonous and tedious as walking along a suburban arterial lined with gas stations. Our low density areas can still be urban and inviting since they usually have small lawns with trees and little gardens, and things like front porches, which are sometimes ornately detailed.

Europeans also haven’t really figured out how to build skyscrapers in an urban setting. In La Defense, Canary Wharf and Rotterdam they’re usually surrounding large plazas. They look good as standalone landmarks, but they don’t feel like they’re part of the urban fabric the way they do in, say, midtown Manhattan or the Loop. I haven’t been to Frankfurt, but from street viewing the area around the Commerzbank tower, things seem kind of underwhelming at street level.

Whoaaa, wait a sec there. 7 ft masonry wall? Where do you see this?

And in terms of skyscrapers in an urban setting -the European centres are very integrated as urban fabric, they usually have retail/ bars/ leisure at the base for starters.

You may have a point with Canary Wharf around pocket parks and plazas but definitely not The City, which combines the oldest part of London with the bombsites of the newest, and crazily sensitive to pedestrian interaction, usability and permeability. Nothing gets built unless it contributes to the public realm.


https://res.cloudinary.com

www.structurecare.com

www.montcalmroyallondoncity.co.uk/blog




https://clarendonlondon.com, https://quillcards.com/blog




https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comm...storic_london/


For example, this used to be my base - the foyer is permeable, and houses a streetfood market for all (and that's just round the corner from genuine medieval markets)


https://res.cloudinary.com/fleetnati...ywjbquqcip.jpg

While the base of my office block was a permeable space conjoining two open streets so people could cut through -the ceiling had video art, and the roof was publicly accessible for a stroll, cafe and views.


www.psco.co.uk


Back to Canary Wharf, the reason the buildings are the way they are (designed by a Canadian developer btw) is there was no urban infill to start off with, they were just desolate, heavily bombed dockyards, that have slowly been populated by w̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶w̶a̶l̶l̶ dock to dock development. Now that Canary Wharf and Wood Wharf have been filled up development has no choice now but to start encroaching into the built areas around.


www.robbiepolley.com



www.londonist.com


^Needless to say the streets are still full, there's little car use and everything's pedestrian and public transport. As mentioned there's also mixed use at the base and the spaces are heavily used:





https://images.fineartamerica.com

www.funkidslive.com

www.timeout.com

[dc_denizen]

for awkward scrapers, check out rotterdam.

[muppet]

Originally Posted by Segun

Are there any European centers that have a lack of services like the US?

There will always be public transport, though I think the worst would be graded on quality of the service rather than connections. In terms of convenience I think places like Reyjavik (and the country at large) would be too spread out and infrequent, and in terms of comfort places like Malta. In terms of expense London, by far can be very pricey (in contrast to Luxembourg where all PT is free).

In Britain there are a handful of postwar 'New Towns' built to be carcentric, low density, with shopping malls as the centre, and the bane of the rest of the country: Milton Keynes, Hatfield, Telford.
This is where your soul goes to die.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by muppet

Whoaaa, wait a sec there. 7 ft masonry wall? Where do you see this?

And in terms of skyscrapers in an urban setting -the European centres are very integrated as urban fabric, they usually have retail/ bars/ leisure at the base for starters.

You may have a point with Canary Wharf around pocket parks and plazas but definitely not The City, which combines the oldest part of London with the bombsites of the newest, and crazily sensitive to pedestrian interaction and permeability.

(...)

Even though the City is not touristy, it has very charming alleys, small churches, pubs, shops and lots of pedestrian activity on daily hours. I see its skyscrapers completely integrated with the streets below, more than New York Midtown with their long blocks and rigid street grid.

[muppet]

And cmawn, Rotterdam was bombed flat in the war. It may be modern, but it's not that bad.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by muppet

There will always be public transport, though I think the worst would be graded on quality of the service rather than connections. In terms of convenience I think places like Reyjavik (and the country at large) would be too spread out and infrequent, and in terms of comfort places like Malta. In terms of expense London, by far can be very pricey (in contrast to Luxembourg where all PT is free).

In Britain there are a handful of postwar 'New Towns' built to be carcentric, low density, with shopping malls as the centre, and the bane of the rest of the country: Milton Keynes, Hatfield, Telford.
This is where your soul goes to die.

The office park districts in Milton Keynes looks like something in suburban Atlanta.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by muppet

Whoaaa, wait a sec there. 7 ft masonry wall? Where do you see this?

All across continental Europe. Like here, here and here.

It doesn't have to necessarily be a masonry wall. It can be a tall hedge or a wrought iron gate - as long as it comes right up to the sidewalk and blocks people from seeing your house. In North America, building a private fence around your front is considered to be bad style unless you live in a high crime neighbourhood.

And in terms of skyscrapers in an urban setting -the European centres are very integrated as urban fabric, they usually have retail/ bars/ leisure at the base for starters.

I dunno. This is not very engaging. This is kind of cool, but not fun to walk around. This is better, but it's still not this, let alone this.

[muppet]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

Even though the City is not touristy, it has very charming alleys, small churches, pubs, shops and lots of pedestrian activity on daily hours. I see its skyscrapers completely integrated with the streets below, more than New York Midtown with their long blocks and rigid street grid.

Yep one of City of London's (the main financial district) real pleasures -which I don't see many visitors doing -is getting lost there, and exploring the hidden alleys, Roman ruins, pocket parks, 150 historic churches and medieval streets among the panoply of public art and cutting edge design.


www.somethingdifferent.london




https://www.sculptureinthecity.org.uk

[muppet]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I dunno. This is not very engaging. This is kind of cool, but not fun to walk around. This is better, but it's still not this, let alone this.

Those walls are a very Italian/ Spanish thing, but not across the whole continent.

OK, go and explore, take as many alleys as you wanna and try and backtrack towards the skyscrapers -this is mostly snapped on a weekend / after hours btw (less people to blur out), normally it's 570,000 per sq mile by day, so imagine the streets being much busier.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5124...i6656?hl=en-GB

https://www.google.com/maps/place/it...50947?hl=en-GB

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5204...7i16384!8i8192

[Minato Ku]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

All across continental Europe. Like here, here and here.

It doesn't have to necessarily be a masonry wall. It can be a tall hedge or a wrought iron gate - as long as it comes right up to the sidewalk and blocks people from seeing your house. In North America, building a private fence around your front is considered to be bad style unless you live in a high crime neighbourhood.

In France, privacy is seen as very important.
There is no ambiguity about what is private and what is publicly accessible.
Is it less walkable? I don't believe so.
Is it better or worse? That's just a very debatable opinion.

[Pedestrian]

Always makes me feel a little "European":


https://noehill.com/noescripts/one_p...978000757.aspx

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Six Corners

Building off what Muppet was saying, Paris is often placed on a pedestal for urban beauty and planning, and it certainly lives up to its status in many ways. But if you venture into the outer suburbs, North American style big box and strip commercial development starts to become a common form:

Complete with billboards
Note the BBQ joint on the left

You have to go pretty damn far out, though.

Paris probably has the second or third largest pre-auto core on the planet. It has a huge transit-oriented, walkable geography, extending deep into the suburbs.

Also, I'd say those Streetviews are pretty atypical for exurban France.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Minato Ku

In France, privacy is seen as very important.
There is no ambiguity about what is private and what is publicly accessible.
Is it less walkable? I don't believe so.
Is it better or worse? That's just a very debatable opinion.

This is how we do it in the city:


https://www.pinterest.de/pin/349873464772428148/

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Crawford

You have to go pretty damn far out, though.

Paris probably has the second or third largest pre-auto core on the planet. It has a huge transit-oriented, walkable geography, extending deep into the suburbs.

Also, I'd say those Streetviews are pretty atypical for exurban France.

I wouldn't say that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Minato Ku

In France, privacy is seen as very important.
There is no ambiguity about what is private and what is publicly accessible.
Is it less walkable? I don't believe so.
Is it better or worse? That's just a very debatable opinion.

It's generally more walkable than North America suburbia. In that there is usually a shop, a café, a clinic and other small businesses within walking distance. Plus decent transit service to anywhere else you might want to go.

But the walk down the street itself is not necessarily super pleasant (to my taste anyway), since it's basically like a canyon between either walls, fences or hedges.

And it's actually a very common look in Europe from Italy all the way up into Scandinavia. There are some exceptions - it seems a bit less common in Germany for example.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by muppet

There will always be public transport, though I think the worst would be graded on quality of the service rather than connections. In terms of convenience I think places like Reyjavik (and the country at large) would be too spread out and infrequent, and in terms of comfort places like Malta. In terms of expense London, by far can be very pricey (in contrast to Luxembourg where all PT is free).

But basically every European city has like, groceries available in the city center. A lot of American cities don't really.

[Emprise du Lion]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I don't know about European, but these StL neighborhoods have very similar architectural qualities with parts of Brooklyn. This house could easily blend into areas of Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, or Bed-Stuy.

Yeah, you can see the east coast's architectural influence on St. Louis in its older neighborhoods. As the city matured though, it ended up with more stuff like this which is far more "Midwestern" in the imagination.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

But basically every European city has like, groceries available in the city center. A lot of American cities don't really.

They aren't there because they tend not to do that well, at least the regular supermarkets in other parts of town nearer where most people live (and I suppose that's the difference--people usually buy food near home so it depends if people live downtown). San Francisco actually does have a Trader Joe's in the heart of downtown (4th & Market if you know the city) and it had a Bristol Farms supermarket in the San Francisco Centre urban mall but it closed, presumably for insufficient business. Still, there remain a number of large markets within ½ a mile of Union Square and also the Ferry Building food hall at the end of Market St. which on weekends hosts an outdoor farmers market in addition to the indoor stalls that rivals European marketplaces.

Also I'll give a shout out to Baltimore which, when I was in school there, had 2 really outstanding market halls downtown and I loved to go there just for the smells when I had some time off from school. I think at least one of them is still going strong.

And of course there's Seattle's Pike Place Market. So yeah, many cities don't have these places but a surprising number do. You're near LA--I believe they have one.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by muppet

I think a lot of US city centres are now filling in those parking lots with high density. Europe did similar with postwar tower-blocks-in-a-park, but they've similarly been replaced now.

Postwar Paris apparently had a lot of parking lots in areas you wouldn't imagine now being parking lots---like their courtyards and squares.

Pre-I.M. Pei's Louvre Pyramids, that courtyard was a parking lot:

Louvre, 1958


La Place de la Concorde, 1958


Notre Dame de Paris, 1960


Place Vendôme, 1961


Place Vendôme, 1968


They paved paradise, put up a parking lot!

Palais-Royal, 1980


Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?

• Video Link


Oh man, apparently way back in 1928, the Place Vendôme was being used as a parking lot:

[sopas ej]

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