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  #381  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2020, 5:52 PM
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^ Whether it's a "new airport" or not, the idea that this is the first such project in the US for 25 years is just false... several US airports have done complete terminal replacements like LGA within the last 25 years.

Of course, if it ain't in New York, it didn't happen...

Also, the 25 year figure is pretty clearly meant to refer to Denver which opened DIA in 1995, but that was an entirely new airport, including both the airfield and terminal. The LGA project is certainly not the same kind of project. The whole 25 years thing feeds into a uniquely American form of complaining, how we don't "build anything anymore" but we refuse to pay the taxes needed to build infrastructure on a large scale, refuse to deal with the fact that we pay the highest costs for infrastructure in the world, and we fight like hell whenever a new piece of infrastructure is planned in our backyard.

It also seems to imply that US cities should build gargantuan new airports out in BFE to keep up with the Joneses in Dubai and Beijing, even though the existing airports in most US cities are usually plenty big enough to deal with the demand that exists for air travel, and it completely ignores how the US has neglected its rail system which should be picking up a lot of the short to medium-range trips.
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Last edited by ardecila; Jun 22, 2020 at 6:11 PM.
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  #382  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2020, 2:00 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

Maybe by new airport, they mean *everything* is being rebuilt. All the terminals, the head house for ticketing a baggage, the parking structures, the roadways, the taxiing roads. That's pretty much the entire airport. That's basically a new airport, since nothing of the old one remains, and the new one is being built ground-up on a different footprint than the old one. I see no problem with that terminology.

Were those airports mentioned on the last page the done to same extent? or just one terminal? Asking genuinely as I have no clue.

If it's not the whole entire airport as with Laguardia then I see no problem with the claim that it's the first one since 25 years ago.


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  #383  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2020, 2:39 AM
KVNBKLYN KVNBKLYN is offline
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Originally Posted by streetscaper View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

Maybe by new airport, they mean *everything* is being rebuilt. All the terminals, the head house for ticketing a baggage, the parking structures, the roadways, the taxiing roads. That's pretty much the entire airport. That's basically a new airport, since nothing of the old one remains, and the new one is being built ground-up on a different footprint than the old one. I see no problem with that terminology.
As far as I know, Terminal A, aka the Marine Air Terminal, isn't going anywhere, so not all terminals are being replaced.

Terminal A was recently renovated, but I don't know about its long-term prospects as a functioning terminal: https://airlinegeeks.com/2019/02/01/...-air-terminal/
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  #384  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2020, 8:01 AM
Will O' Wisp Will O' Wisp is offline
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Originally Posted by streetscaper View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

Maybe by new airport, they mean *everything* is being rebuilt. All the terminals, the head house for ticketing a baggage, the parking structures, the roadways, the taxiing roads. That's pretty much the entire airport. That's basically a new airport, since nothing of the old one remains, and the new one is being built ground-up on a different footprint than the old one. I see no problem with that terminology.

Were those airports mentioned on the last page the done to same extent? or just one terminal? Asking genuinely as I have no clue.

If it's not the whole entire airport as with Laguardia then I see no problem with the claim that it's the first one since 25 years ago.
The US has built a grand total of three new, primary category airports in the past 50 years: Kansas City International in 1972, DFW in 1973, and Denver International in 1995. "New" defined as starting from an empty greenfield, with no preexisting airport infrastructure. To get an idea of just how empty we're talking here's Denver International in 1991, halfway through construction.



As you can see, not only did they have to build the terminals, but they had to build the runways, taxiways, fueling infrastructure, maintenance areas, etc.

Describing LaGuardia as a "new" airport is a bit controversial in the airport planning sphere for that reason, because all that's being redone is the terminals. With the same number and length of runways, and the same airspace constraints, LaGuardia won't be able to handle any more flights than it does now. The number of gates airport wide is actually going down, not that it matters because the other two issues are the primary cause of flight delays in the NYC region.

If I had to make a metaphor, it's like if you took an old tenement building in the busy part of downtown, gutted the interior, and installed a set of modern SRO apartments. Sure, everything the residents see will be fresh and new, but in the end you've got a building with the same size and shape as the old one, holding roughly the same amount of people. And that's a problem because, if we're following through this metaphor, while you made things a bit more habitable for the building's residents, it's still not spacious, and you're doing nothing for all the many people forced to commute into the area (aka, the capacity constraints are forcing travelers towards Newark, JFK, and increasingly Philadelphia International).
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  #385  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2020, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp View Post
Describing LaGuardia as a "new" airport is a bit controversial in the airport planning sphere for that reason, because all that's being redone is the terminals. With the same number and length of runways, and the same airspace constraints, LaGuardia won't be able to handle any more flights than it does now. The number of gates airport wide is actually going down, not that it matters because the other two issues are the primary cause of flight delays in the NYC region.
This isn't true. Essentially everything at LGA but the two main runways and control tower is being rebuilt. LGA will have much higher capacity post-rebuild, and more gates. New parking, roadways, transit, hotel. And even the runways will function different, because of the new placement of the gates, which are now on the other side of the runways, which now run beneath the terminal. The runways cannot be expanded without a gauntlet of federal approvals, and the control tower is relatively new.

When I think "new airport" I think something built from scratch, on greenfield, so I don't like the term. But LGA, functionally, will be essentially entirely new.
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  #386  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2020, 1:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp View Post
The US has built a grand total of three new, primary category airports in the past 50 years: Kansas City International in 1972, DFW in 1973, and Denver International in 1995. "New" defined as starting from an empty greenfield, with no preexisting airport infrastructure. To get an idea of just how empty we're talking here's Denver International in 1991, halfway through construction.

...

As you can see, not only did they have to build the terminals, but they had to build the runways, taxiways, fueling infrastructure, maintenance areas, etc.
By this definition, Indianapolis International Airport was almost completely rebuilt and opened in 2008. The new headhouse, terminal, roadways, parking structure, and maintenance facilities were placed around the existing runways. The old terminal and associated facilities remain standing, which you can see in the top right of this picture.



I'm all for saying LGA is undergoing a dramatic transformation, being rebuilt while still in use. Saying that is it the first all new airport in the United States is a bit of a stretch. It is keeping in the New York tradition...
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  #387  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2020, 2:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
^ Whether it's a "new airport" or not, the idea that this is the first such project in the US for 25 years is just false... several US airports have done complete terminal replacements like LGA within the last 25 years.

Of course, if it ain't in New York, it didn't happen...

Oh please, we're still talking about this? You still don't get it, but I'm not even gonna argue it, because it doesn't matter. Most people will understand what new airport means. They're building a new 270 Park Avenue, replacing the old one. Of course, they'll be using the existing foundation, but it's still a new building. But ok, I'll throw the people a bone if it hurts that much. It's the first new airport in 3 days! Good. Now everybody relax.
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  #388  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2020, 2:20 PM
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Some images of the first of Delta's new concourses (G) that opened a couple of years ago at Terminal C, which itself is being rebuilt.




https://www.anewlga.com/news-media/media-gallery/






















More images from the new terminal B



https://www.panynj.gov/airports/en/i...erminal-b.html

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Passengers moving from the brand new arrivals and departures hall to their gates will do so by a first-of-its-kind skybridge over an active taxiwa








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  #389  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2020, 8:14 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Oh please, we're still talking about this? You still don't get it, but I'm not even gonna argue it, because it doesn't matter. Most people will understand what new airport means. They're building a new 270 Park Avenue, replacing the old one. Of course, they'll be using the existing foundation, but it's still a new building. But ok, I'll throw the people a bone if it hurts that much. It's the first new airport in 3 days! Good. Now everybody relax.
So you don't think it's important for government agencies to be truthful and do basic fact-checking?

I love the new LGA terminal and I agree it is much-needed (except for the harebrained AirTrain)... this is not meant as a dig at the project but at Cuomo and other blowhard politicians who'd rather pat themselves on the back than work on the actual issues. I will also point out that the dysfunction of the OLD LaGuardia was only partly about the buildings, with just as much or more blame to the incompetent and/or corrupt management that let the place crumble, sweetheart contracts to concessions, janitorial, etc. Coming from Chicago, I know all the tricks... If those issues aren't addressed then in 30 years folks will be complaining about the "new" terminals.
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Last edited by ardecila; Jun 23, 2020 at 8:28 PM.
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  #390  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2020, 4:49 AM
Will O' Wisp Will O' Wisp is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
This isn't true. Essentially everything at LGA but the two main runways and control tower is being rebuilt. LGA will have much higher capacity post-rebuild, and more gates. New parking, roadways, transit, hotel. And even the runways will function different, because of the new placement of the gates, which are now on the other side of the runways, which now run beneath the terminal. The runways cannot be expanded without a gauntlet of federal approvals, and the control tower is relatively new.

When I think "new airport" I think something built from scratch, on greenfield, so I don't like the term. But LGA, functionally, will be essentially entirely new.
Ummm, it is true.

Laguardia will have the exact same capacity it does today. No gates are being added. The terminals are on the same side of the runways they were before, and the runways will function identically.

To put it simply, there is only one determining factor of Laguardia's current capacity: the number of aircraft that can land or take off per hour. Laguardia is one of a few airports nationwide that has maxed out the capacity of its runways (JFK and EWR are also among them). By law, LGA is limited to 71 scheduled take offs and landings per hour, and 3 unscheduled ones. The airport's gates, taxiways, fuel infrastructure, it all could handle more flights, but it is impossible to operate more aircraft on the field safely.

These renovations do nothing to fix this. So those lineups of 12-15 aircraft waiting to take off, getting a random 45 minute delay because the weather turns, or the range limits on destinations aren't going to change. What will change are the habitability of the terminals, and less instances of waiting on the taxiway after landing for an aircraft to move out of your way to the gate. But the latter situation represents a tiny minority of delays at Laguardia.

This is why the LGA rebuild has been controversial among airport planners, because a lot of people have gotten extremely confused about what these improvements will actually accomplish. And it seems like some local politicians may have encouraged this, possibly because they want to avoid talking about the extremely controversial task of increasing capacity. But when it takes a minimum of 15 years to gain federal approval for a new runway, and airports in the region are already capacity constrained, kicking the can down the road really hurts things.

Mind you, no one thinks the new terminals are bad. They are an improvement in every way over the old ones. The problem is that calling this a "new" airport dodges the issue of fixing the NYC area's acute aviation capacity problems. 40% of flight delays nationwide originate in the NYC metropolitan area(PDF, pg 10). All the way here in sunny San Diego, if my flight is delayed there's a better than even chance it's because my aircraft got held up trying to get in/out of NYC and that ruined its entire daily schedule.

Note though that if one were to plan on increasing airfield capacity in the NYC metro area, LGA probably wouldn't be the place to do it. Adding another runway to Newark or JFK would be more cost effective at reducing delays at all three airports.

Last edited by Will O' Wisp; Jun 30, 2020 at 5:10 AM.
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  #391  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2020, 6:17 AM
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I was wonder if they ever build 2 more new runways? That way It will reduce delays. They don't like wait taxiway for 45 minutes. This is better work. It will help. It will reduce slots restrictions.
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  #392  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2020, 12:44 PM
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LaGuardia’s Terminal B set for another milestone on August 5

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LaGuardia Gateway Partners (LGP) today announced that it will officially open the first seven gates of the Western Concourse of the new state-of-the-art Terminal B at LaGuardia Airport on August 5, 2020.

With the opening of these seven gates, Terminal B is one step closer to Governor Andrew Cuomo’s vision of a 21st century LaGuardia Airport.

The new 218,000 square foot concourse will open in two phases, to allow the remaining gates in the original terminal to stay operational during construction.

In this first phase, seven of 17 gates will open, along with the Gotham News newsstand and a portion of the concourse’s park, featuring greenery and benches.

The concourse features plenty of natural light and soaring ceilings up to 55 feet high. Its restrooms are thoughtfully designed, including spacious stalls and above sink shelves to keep belongings dry.

In addition, the Western Concourse features two pieces of New York City inspired artwork, with one being a sculpture by Romero Britto.

American Airlines will operate in the new Western Concourse and also continue to operate from the original terminal’s D gates while construction continues.

Passengers will check-in at the brand new state-of-the-art Terminal B Arrivals and Departures Hall, which opened in June of 2020 and connect to the new Western Concourse through a temporary walkway.


[...]


The Terminal B redevelopment includes a new 35-gate terminal, a parking garage, and a Central Hall, which will unify the airport by connecting to Terminal C, which is also being redeveloped.
=====================
https://airport-world.com/laguardias...e-on-august-5/
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  #393  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2020, 1:24 AM
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it's nice.


more on the airport art:
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/la...eiling-1883490









Last edited by NYguy; Aug 4, 2020 at 1:01 AM.
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  #394  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2020, 4:05 PM
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LGA goes from third world to world class
New terminal, seen by few, is ‘just terrific’


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While the rest of us were home stockpiling pasta and binge watching Netflix, LaGuardia Airport was nearly rebuilt from takeoff to landing.

Among the biggest surprises awaiting Queens residents once the COVID-19 pandemic recedes is going to be the $8 billion transformation of LaGuardia from something in a “third-world country,” as former Vice President Joe Biden once put it, to the most modern terminal since the Denver airport opened 25 years ago.

A few weeks ago, the latest gates opened at Terminal B — the airport’s brand-new terminal — with minimum fanfare.

Gov. Cuomo, who has made the rebuilding of New York City’s two airports a personal project, did not show up for the modest ribbon-cutting ceremony in late July, though in a press release he called the opening “the biggest milestone to date.”

The problem? Heavy restrictions on air travel since last March mean the new airport is standing largely unused. Few people, most of them brave out-of-towners, have seen the work that has been done.

The number of air passengers through LaGuardia is down 89 percent compared to last year, according to the July statistics released Monday by the Transportation Security Administration.

Flights in and out of LGA are down 70 percent, it said.

The new terminal was largely empty this week with no lines at the airline check-in desks and only an occasional car dropping off passengers on the new departure level.

“It’s just terrific,” Arcadia Williams, who’d just got off a flight from Miami on her way to visit her parents on Long Island after the long lockdown, said of the new terminal. “I hadn’t heard anything about this and I was knocked out. The old place was so dingy.”

After his fare rolled his luggage into the terminal, an Uber driver got out of his car to snap a quick cellphone photo of the splendid Manhattan skyline panorama now visible from the top-floor drop-off spot.

“I haven’t been here since they fixed it up,” the driver said. “What a nice view!”

Fallout from the pandemic has slowed down major construction projects all over the country. But the Port Authority revamped a number of its work practices to keep LaGuardia’s rebuilding going.

Employees’ temperatures are checked daily. Rather than making construction workers use on-site porta pottys, officials arranged to open unused bathrooms in the terminals, and to get them cleaned regularly. The changes worked.

[...]



“The opening of Terminal B, the first new Arrivals and Departure Hall, was a major milestone in delivering on Gov. Cuomo’s vision for a brand new, 21st century LaGuardia Airport, and today, we are happy to see air travelers are finally enjoying a world class experience at LaGuardia.”

The new arrivals-and-departure terminal, which opened to the public last June, sits right next to the Grand Central Parkway and was built to handle twice as many passengers each year as the old one.

It is connected by sky bridges to two concourses for boarding. The western concourse, serving mostly American Airlines flights, opened seven new gates on Aug. 5. Ten more are set to open next year. Terminal B’s eastern concourse opened in late 2018, with 18 new gates.

Delta opened an eastern concourse of seven gates also. Together, more than 40 percent of the passengers using LaGuardia are departing or arriving via the new gates.

Demolition of the old, unloved terminal is set to begin next month.

The demolition, set to be completed by 2022, will free up space to build new taxiways behind the new Terminal B and, according to officials, alleviate the on-ground airplane traffic jams that are blamed for LaGuardia’s reputation for delays.
====================
https://www.qchron.com/editions/quee...f35548950.html
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  #395  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2020, 4:25 PM
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The PA missed a huge opportunity hear by not reworking the airside. It now has some lipstick on it, but it's still a pig.
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  #396  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2020, 9:25 PM
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The PA missed a huge opportunity hear by not reworking the airside. It now has some lipstick on it, but it's still a pig.
So B and C/D won't be connected airside?
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  #397  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2020, 12:45 AM
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So B and C/D won't be connected airside?
No.
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  #398  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2021, 4:18 AM
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https://pix11.com/news/local-news/la...isive-project/

LaGuardia AirTrain gets FAA approval, paving way for divisive project

Lauren Cook and Greg Mocker
July 20, 2021


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The Federal Aviation Administration approved the proposed LaGuardia Airport AirTrain on Tuesday, despite pushback from surrounding communities and environmental advocates.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo, who unveiled plans for the AirTrain in 2015, said the project will offer an “efficient, and affordable transit connector” to one of the state’s busiest transportation hubs.
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The FAA held hearings last year as it conducted an environmental review. Eighteen federal, state and local agencies provided input and the public provided over 4,200 comments before the agency reached its decision.

With FAA approval, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey can move forward with an application for federal funding.
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  #399  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2021, 1:24 PM
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$2 Billion for a train that you have to travel past the airport to reach and then double back, paying an extra fare just to ride it. What a boondoggle. Clearly, this was designed for the Long Islanders that will take the LIRR.
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  #400  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2021, 1:57 PM
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