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  #21  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2006, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by plinko View Post
Ah...not far from the 101. Does it have anything on top of it?

I don't find Costco unique either...I just advocate that this particular location is an excellent use of an existing uninviting streetscape that would otherwise be vastly underutilized (and unleaseable I might add).

Fflinty, just remember every time you go there (you suburban minded heathen you!)...you could be driving to Natomas!!!
Haha! 'Every time you shop at Costco, an indy angel gets fired.'
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  #22  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2006, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
Not to rain on the parade, but I can't say this is that great.

Its just one more step of turning downtown into the suburbs.

Why go to COSTCO for cheese, when downtowns are suppose to have market areas full of different cheese vendors who actually know about that stuff?

Why go to COSTCO for a ring, when downtown is suppose to have tons of unique jewelry stores?

I don't know. Places like this will just eat away at the stuff that actually makes downtown a unique place.
I agree that these stores do destroy a sense of place. I have to admit that I was taken aback at some of the flippant responses to your post. Superficially these incursions seem innocuous, but we all know that COSTCO is just WALMART in sheep's clothing. Does paying 6 bucks for your Camembert as opposed to 6.5 bucks really necessitate these spirit crushing behemoths? I don't want one in my neighbrohood, because I'm perfectly happy shopping at my 1500 sf grocer and don't want him to go belly up.
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  #23  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2006, 7:00 PM
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I so miss CostCo. It has nothing in common with WalMart as CostCo tends to stock more upmarket items and often carries items unavailable at other stores.

Why does a store need a "sense of place?" The less time and money one spends shopping, the more that can be spent on enjoyable activities such as eating at restaurants etc. I also disagree with the notion that big box stores foster car dependence. Smaller stores carry inventory offsite which is transported to the store by truck. All this does is shift the storage space and automobile trips. Plus, one needs to shop more frequently and visit more stores to obtain all of the items available from a single big box store in a single trip. Sure you could argue that many of those trips will be on foot, but not all.

The only reason that big box stores are a drain is that central cities have chosen not to accomidate them. They frequenty charge higher municipal sales and property taxes than neighboring suburbs and don't have as many suitable sites. However, as this CostCo in Vancouver has demonstrated, big box can be modified to fit an urban setting. I've seen similar adaptations by Home Depot in Portland and Calgary.
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  #24  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2006, 7:34 PM
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Like Walmart, it puts the little man out of business. Besides when faced with that much food, people tend to overbuy, which they in turn ferret back to their homes and then overeat because the food is there. But that's really not my gripe with it.
I don't want to see my perfectly adequate (and convenient) store close. Within minutes I can turn the corner grab the things I need and get back home. The thought of shlepping through miles of aisles in a "wharehouse" type environment and then standing in line with the hoi poloi, so smug in their perceived cash and time savings, is a bore.
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  #25  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2006, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by fountainhead View Post
I agree that these stores do destroy a sense of place. I have to admit that I was taken aback at some of the flippant responses to your post. Superficially these incursions seem innocuous, but we all know that COSTCO is just WALMART in sheep's clothing. Does paying 6 bucks for your Camembert as opposed to 6.5 bucks really necessitate these spirit crushing behemoths? I don't want one in my neighbrohood, because I'm perfectly happy shopping at my 1500 sf grocer and don't want him to go belly up.
The same items for only 50 cents more? LOL. Perhaps in Vancouver or other places that is the choice, but here in San Francisco, our unfriendly little corner stores sell inferior products at thrice the price. When it comes to grocery staples, household items, meat, and alcohol, Costco is a no-brainer. Sorry haters.
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  #26  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2006, 2:25 AM
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Here's a section I found a while back:

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  #27  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2006, 2:39 AM
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Originally Posted by fflint View Post
The same items for only 50 cents more? LOL. Perhaps in Vancouver or other places that is the choice, but here in San Francisco, our unfriendly little corner stores sell inferior products at thrice the price. When it comes to grocery staples, household items, meat, and alcohol, Costco is a no-brainer. Sorry haters.

And why is that FFLINT? Because in urban America and parts of Urban Canada, we have killed off the inner city neighbourhood full of quality owner operated food stores.

I don't know what the situation is like in Vancouver, but I know here in Toronto we have amazing inner city neighbourhood strips with local food stores.

My sisters live near one, and its amazing to walk out their front door and down two blocks and have a huge selection of fruites, meats, cheeses, etc. Infact the large number of stores in one area compete and the prices are great, and often times cheaper then the large supermarkets.

In a vibrant city that has retained the tradional urban style, it should not be a problem to find food stores that sell large selections of food and at good prices, even in owner run stores.

The reason it is getting harder to find it, is because we are killing off our city neighbourhoods by letting COSTCO in.


What people are failing to see is that COSTCO and other places like them are killing off what makes the city interesting, the selection, the unique stores, etc.

I am sorry, but who the hell wants to live in downtown Vancouver, if its going to be nothing but COSTCO and all the other stuff I can find in the suburbs.

If I live downtown, I want to be in a "real" downtown, with the fresh farmer markets, etc. Not a COSTCO.

Are we going to support out local economy and downtowns or big corporations?

You may think they are just stores. But even food stores make up what the city is. And a city would not be the same without them.

This is one of the problems with the residential growth in our downtowns now. Is this growth really going to be good for the city, or just kill off all the diversity and unique things that downtown once offered? It seems our new residents have no intent on really partaking in what downtown really is, and instead are just worried about having a COSTCO and BEST BUY.


You tell me why I need to go to Costco, when I can go to a downtown market like this, and find the largest selection of food in the city at warehouse prices.

The problem is most of our cities have killed off districts like this.





















That my people is what a city is about. Not a COSTCO store.
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  #28  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2006, 2:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fflint View Post
The same items for only 50 cents more? LOL. Perhaps in Vancouver or other places that is the choice, but here in San Francisco, our unfriendly little corner stores sell inferior products at thrice the price. When it comes to grocery staples, household items, meat, and alcohol, Costco is a no-brainer. Sorry haters.
Here here fflint

Im not going to give my money to some mom and pop bullshit store just becuase they dont know how to run an efficent business. If they offer prices even reasonably close to costco then I will shop there but the sad truth is that they rarely come even close... I dont know what kind of bargain emporiums mike toronto is finding, but frankly I think he may be a tad dilusional.

I wish the world could remain full of small friendly shops which offer everything you need at low prices, it would be nice but im not going to pay through the roof for a little bit of sentimentality... as Mr. Burns so eloquently put it: "I think I'd be happier with the dollar.
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  #29  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2006, 2:55 AM
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Do condominium residents have room to stack the large-size bulk items that Costco sells?
When I was looking for a place back in March, a lot of the apartments had little nooks and what not that would be perfect for storing bulk things. I don't know if those ones would, though, I don't know if that is common in buildings these days. The ones I looked at had to be at least 30 years old.

I imagine a lot of their repeat customers will be people living in those towers, though. I know a lot of the customers at the store I work at live in the apartment towers* around it.

*tower: 3-7 storey building.

@Mike: Not every city has one of those (Here, it's only on Saturdays, and located, ironically, in the suburbs) besides, a lot of corner stores here charge a lot for things. Why get a tin of tuna for 1.29 when the same brand is available at Safeway for only 34 cents? If you buy ground beef at Mac's (Yes, Mac's sells ground beef.) you are paying almost 18 dollars a kilogram. It's 7.50 a kilogram at Safeway.

I sound like a fucking commercial again.:X
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  #30  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2006, 3:34 AM
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VID, Safeway is different then a COSTCO. Also the quality of meat and selection you find at the downtown farmers markets can't be met at a safeway or Costco.

Also for COSTCO you have to pay a membership to shop there. Sorry but I don't pay a membership to stop in a store.

COSTCO should stay out in the suburbs. Leave the inner city to real urbanism.
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  #31  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2006, 3:39 AM
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Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
And why is that FFLINT?
I'm glad you asked that, Mike. Why are the thousands of corner stores all over vibrant San Francisco ridiculously overpriced? Because they're priced for convenience, not priced for bargains. When pressed for time, San Franciscans hit the corner store and pay out the nose for the convenience.

The rest of your rant is entirely divorced from the reality of life in San Francisco and appears, despite being directed at me as a response to my reality-based post, geared for consumption by someone who actually gives a crap about your theories as to how "we" should all live.
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  #32  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2006, 5:26 AM
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I'm still trying to figure out why this is any different than a department store opening in a downtown...

Based on the section I can see that this is even more ideal than I thought. The 4th side of the building (the one not facing the arena or either viaduct) is buried and the side towards Beatty Street offers a nice green space. Excellent land use.
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  #33  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2006, 9:45 PM
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give me a two story payless shoes any day over costco
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  #34  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2006, 9:58 PM
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I'm still trying to figure out why this is any different than a department store opening in a downtown...
Exactly.

"Mom and Pop" shops will always remain - if they can differentiate themselves...that's all there is to it.
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  #35  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2006, 7:29 PM
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give me a two story payless shoes any day over costco
Let's hear it for Payless Shoe Source!
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  #36  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2006, 8:36 PM
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Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
VID, Safeway is different then a COSTCO. Also the quality of meat and selection you find at the downtown farmers markets can't be met at a safeway or Costco.
I can only speak for Byward Market - but all I have seen there over the years is expensive crap. Sold by extremely unfriendly Quebec farmers. And one of my really obnoxious "foodie" friends swears by the costco meat department.
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  #37  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2006, 9:10 PM
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Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
And why is that FFLINT? Because in urban America and parts of Urban Canada, we have killed off the inner city neighbourhood full of quality owner operated food stores.

I don't know what the situation is like in Vancouver, but I know here in Toronto we have amazing inner city neighbourhood strips with local food stores.

My sisters live near one, and its amazing to walk out their front door and down two blocks and have a huge selection of fruites, meats, cheeses, etc. Infact the large number of stores in one area compete and the prices are great, and often times cheaper then the large supermarkets.

In a vibrant city that has retained the tradional urban style, it should not be a problem to find food stores that sell large selections of food and at good prices, even in owner run stores.

The reason it is getting harder to find it, is because we are killing off our city neighbourhoods by letting COSTCO in.


What people are failing to see is that COSTCO and other places like them are killing off what makes the city interesting, the selection, the unique stores, etc.

I am sorry, but who the hell wants to live in downtown Vancouver, if its going to be nothing but COSTCO and all the other stuff I can find in the suburbs.

If I live downtown, I want to be in a "real" downtown, with the fresh farmer markets, etc. Not a COSTCO.

Are we going to support out local economy and downtowns or big corporations?

You may think they are just stores. But even food stores make up what the city is. And a city would not be the same without them.

This is one of the problems with the residential growth in our downtowns now. Is this growth really going to be good for the city, or just kill off all the diversity and unique things that downtown once offered? It seems our new residents have no intent on really partaking in what downtown really is, and instead are just worried about having a COSTCO and BEST BUY.


You tell me why I need to go to Costco, when I can go to a downtown market like this, and find the largest selection of food in the city at warehouse prices.

The problem is most of our cities have killed off districts like this.





















That my people is what a city is about. Not a COSTCO store.
thats a market though - and not typical of what is found everywhere

Vancouver has typical chain stores downtown - safeway, IGA, extra foods, supervalu, and some upscale pricer ones - Choices, Capers, Urban Fare, Nestors

the market would be Granville Island

most of the mom and pop corner shops downtown are pricey and carry things that people wouldn't do grocery shopping in - and 7-11 has opened a lot of stores in the downtown core over the last few years which has replaced a few of the older corner shops

now there are streets outside of the downtown core that have shops with produce and flowers etc out on the sidewalk - hastings has a bunch next to each other, victoria drive, oak street, broadway, west 4th etc. but you don't see that much in the west end
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  #38  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2006, 9:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fflint View Post
I'm glad you asked that, Mike. Why are the thousands of corner stores all over vibrant San Francisco ridiculously overpriced? Because they're priced for convenience, not priced for bargains. When pressed for time, San Franciscans hit the corner store and pay out the nose for the convenience.

The rest of your rant is entirely divorced from the reality of life in San Francisco and appears, despite being directed at me as a response to my reality-based post, geared for consumption by someone who actually gives a crap about your theories as to how "we" should all live.
ah yes but san francisco has walgreens - we went there a ton when we visited - they were just everywhere and so convenient and cheap(ish)
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  #39  
Old Posted Dec 26, 2006, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
VID, Safeway is different then a COSTCO. Also the quality of meat and selection you find at the downtown farmers markets can't be met at a safeway or Costco.

Also for COSTCO you have to pay a membership to shop there. Sorry but I don't pay a membership to stop in a store.

COSTCO should stay out in the suburbs. Leave the inner city to real urbanism.
Are you serious? The quality of produce and meat at CostCo is the best of the best. Sure it may not offer the breadth of selection, but with the volume passing through those stores, product is always fresh which cannot be said for smaller stores especially neighborhood convenience type places that will try and pawn off wilted lettuce because they know someone will be too lazy to go somewhere else.

The payback on a CostCo membership (around $50) can be one trip.

The other issue is time. When I lived in big box rich Seattle or Calgary, I probably went shopping once or twice a month.
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  #40  
Old Posted Dec 26, 2006, 5:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug
The other issue is time. When I lived in big box rich Seattle or Calgary, I probably went shopping once or twice a month
you know, as someone who buys at least some groceries almost every other day, i'm curious as to how someone can shop so infrequently. i understand non-perishables, since those only need to be bought once or twice a month whether you're shopping at costco or a neighbourhood supermarket, but what about fresh food? surely you don't freeze everything? what about fruits, yogurt, juice, etc.?
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