HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #22041  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2022, 9:25 PM
Philly Fan Philly Fan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
SD is the only West Coast city I like. Reminds me of home in a lot of ways.
Annnnd . . . . the road to the World Series.
     
     
  #22042  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2022, 10:13 PM
reparcsyks reparcsyks is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
SD is the only West Coast city I like. Reminds me of home in a lot of ways.
They even have a mini Liberty Place.
     
     
  #22043  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2022, 11:37 PM
TonyTone's Avatar
TonyTone TonyTone is offline
Tony V / ValuezTV
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Philly Metro DE-PA-NJ
Posts: 1,445
In other development news, I noticed a new construction home going up in poplar.



Will we start to see those single family homes getting demolished and now more dense properties going back up?
__________________
Promoting Cities since 1998! | ValuezTv | Philadelphia Photo Thread | Wilmington Photo Thread | ValuezTv IG | ValuezTv X
     
     
  #22044  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 1:08 AM
ScreamShatter ScreamShatter is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 1,983
^ Are those properties Philly owned or rent to own?
     
     
  #22045  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 1:41 AM
TonyTone's Avatar
TonyTone TonyTone is offline
Tony V / ValuezTV
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Philly Metro DE-PA-NJ
Posts: 1,445
Looking at Atlas all these homes were "bought on 8/20/1998" I assume that's when the construction was done and homes were given to the eligible home owners that were on the list? Was this a PHA development ?

https://atlas.phila.gov/1303%20POPLAR%20ST/li

However this plot was given a Zoning permit in 2021 to

Quote:
FOR THE COMPLETE DEMOLITION OF A DETACHED STRUCTURE (SHED). NO CHANGE IN HEIGHT OR AREA TO EXISTING SEMI- DETACHED STRUCTURE.

FOR A LOT ADJUSTMENT TO CREATE TWO (2) LOTS (LOT 1 AND LOT 2) FROM ONE EXISTING LOT (1303 POPLAR ST.). SIZES AND LOCATIONS AS SHOWN IN THE APPLICATION/PLAN.
and on 11/16/21 was given a permit for new construction

Quote:
NEW CONSTRUCTION
FOR THE ERECTION OF A NEW, FOUR (4) STORY ATTACHED STRUCTURE (W/ROOF DECK AND PILOT HOUSE ENCLOSING ACCESS STAIRS ONLY) TO BE USED AS GROUP R-3 (SFD), AS PER PLANS; SEE SUB-PERMITS FOR ASSOCIATED MEP WORK; SEPARATE PERMIT REQUIRED FOR FSP WORK; BUILDING TO BE FULLY SPRINKLERED AS PER NFPA 13R THROUGHOUT; IF FIELD CONDITIONS VARY, CONTACT DESIGN ENGINEER PRIOR TO THE START OF ANY WORK; COVERED WALKWAY OR SIDEWALK CLOSURE SHALL BE REQUIRED WITHIN 9.5 FEET OF THE BUILDING FACADE IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 3306 IN THE 2018 IBC (SEPARATE BUILDING AND/OR STREETS DEPARTMENT PERMIT REQUIRED PRIOR TO START OF ANY WORK); BLOWER DOOR TESTING SHALL BE PERFORMED IN ACCORDANCE WITH ASTM E 779 OR ASTM E 1827 BY AN APPROVED THIRD PARTY AGENCY.
Current owners bought the property in 2018
__________________
Promoting Cities since 1998! | ValuezTv | Philadelphia Photo Thread | Wilmington Photo Thread | ValuezTv IG | ValuezTv X
     
     
  #22046  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 3:45 AM
allovertown allovertown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,338
Quote:
Originally Posted by McBane View Post
Not only the closet space but the bathroom situations in older homes suck. Our airlite had no bathroom on the first floor (and neither do many older homes). Doesn't mean you can't add one but in a tight 1100 sf rowhome, there's not really space. And upstairs? No master bath, just a tiny shared bathroom with very little countertop space and if you have kids, it's not ideal.

And it's not as if a first floor bathroom and a master bathroom are ostentatious luxuries for the 1%. Pretty much every home built after the 1970's have these features, even modest townhomes. Homes with master bathrooms and first floor bathrooms (not to mention off-street parking, central air, bedrooms bigger than shoeboxes, etc.) are all very much attainable on a middle class salary. It's not as if one has to make compromises to afford such a home.

Some of the older larger homes (like what you may find in Spruce Hill) can be retrofitted because they're big enough to start with and within neighborhoods where that kind of investment makes financial sense. And even still, you have to be a little more than just middle class to do this or afford a remodeled Victorian.

I've said this before and I'll repeat it here: There's not enough neighborhoods in Philly that can cater to the average middle class family. Homes in and around Center City are super expensive and then you get into the outer neighborhoods where the homes are cheap but old and tiny. Relative to the endless rows of airlites and older rowhomes, the small pockets of decently sized modern-ish homes in the far northeast and pockets of northwest is small.
... Again though, you're just talking about size. An 1,100 sq foot home is 1,100 sq feet whether it was built in 1920 or 2017. Do you think it's easier to fit a first floor bathroom in a newer 1,100 sq ft home? Sure a first floor bathroom and a master bathroom is not an ostentatious luxury, but for an 1,100 sq foot home, it kind of is because it's simply not practical to fit 2.5 brs in a home that small, whether it was built after 1970 or not.

You're saying old homes are not suitable, but then you're not talking about anything at all that relates to the age of the home, you're just talking about the size. I simply do not understand this argument.

These types of small starter homes are essential for communities and there will always be a place for them, even if they're not personally suitable for you. And judging by how much an 1,100 sq foot room that is updated and in a desirable neighborhood can go for, there's clearly still a very strong market for small homes even in these modern times.

It seems like maybe you're saying Philly simply has too many small homes as compared to large homes? OK I guess, and maybe 2022 Philly would ideally have a higher percentage of larger homes that what existed in the past. Again though, this has nothing to do with the age of a rowhome. You're just talking about size.

Some of the homes you'll find in spruce hill are well over 100 years old, much older than the 1,100 sq ft homes that were built in the 50s you'll find all over the city. And yet according to you, these homes are more suitable for modern living. It's almost as though the age of the home is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Last edited by allovertown; Oct 19, 2022 at 3:56 AM.
     
     
  #22047  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 4:36 AM
PurpleWhiteOut PurpleWhiteOut is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreamShatter View Post
^ Are those properties Philly owned or rent to own?
It looks like the properties from 12th to broad are owner-occupied, but everything east of 12th is PHA owned. If the Sharswood redevelopment is successful, I would love to see that repeated here with a replacement with rowhomes, a grocery store, and mixed use.
     
     
  #22048  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 12:41 PM
cardeza cardeza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyTone View Post
In other development news, I noticed a new construction home going up in poplar.



Will we start to see those single family homes getting demolished and now more dense properties going back up?
is that really an improvement? Its taller but its still detached.
     
     
  #22049  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 12:49 PM
cardeza cardeza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
I think you're right. If given the opportunity and a bigger budget. Many families will choose to live in more square footage not less. And, I do like older but larger single family stone homes. Like ones built with real PA stones like the Wissahickon schist. Gut those out to bring it up to code and put in better insulation, update kitchen and bathrooms and amenities and conveniences and they become very desirable and an expansive rehab. A home is about comfort and amenities that work for the homeowner/family. I actually like the "laundry room" on the 2nd floor. When you have kids and have to do so many loads, having it upstairs next to the bedrooms and bathrooms make sense.
Homes such as the ones you are describing are renovated all the time in NW Philadelphia and occasionally in other areas. In many cases they can be had for less than the cost of a new construction townhouse with no yard or parking.

It is very possible to update an older home and many have done so, including many developers who flip homes.

As for laundry rooms on first or second floors, most houses Ive been in that have this feature have the washer and dryer tucked into a glorified closet or extremely tight room that is just big enough for you to stand in to load and unload. I suppose not having to move things up and down the steps is a "blessing" in that you get less excercise, but there is something appealing about having a more spacious area out of the line of site to take your dirty clothes. If you are extremely organized I suppose you can do a family's laundry and never have anything on the floor or piled near the washer etc- but thats not the reality in my house. I'd rather keep some of that out of sight- everyone doesn't need to see how the sausage is made.
     
     
  #22050  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 1:14 PM
Justin7 Justin7 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 821
Quote:
Originally Posted by allovertown View Post
... Again though, you're just talking about size. An 1,100 sq foot home is 1,100 sq feet whether it was built in 1920 or 2017. Do you think it's easier to fit a first floor bathroom in a newer 1,100 sq ft home? Sure a first floor bathroom and a master bathroom is not an ostentatious luxury, but for an 1,100 sq foot home, it kind of is because it's simply not practical to fit 2.5 brs in a home that small, whether it was built after 1970 or not.

You're saying old homes are not suitable, but then you're not talking about anything at all that relates to the age of the home, you're just talking about the size. I simply do not understand this argument.

These types of small starter homes are essential for communities and there will always be a place for them, even if they're not personally suitable for you. And judging by how much an 1,100 sq foot room that is updated and in a desirable neighborhood can go for, there's clearly still a very strong market for small homes even in these modern times.

It seems like maybe you're saying Philly simply has too many small homes as compared to large homes? OK I guess, and maybe 2022 Philly would ideally have a higher percentage of larger homes that what existed in the past. Again though, this has nothing to do with the age of a rowhome. You're just talking about size.

Some of the homes you'll find in spruce hill are well over 100 years old, much older than the 1,100 sq ft homes that were built in the 50s you'll find all over the city. And yet according to you, these homes are more suitable for modern living. It's almost as though the age of the home is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Not sure how this 1100 sqft argument began, but most of the buildings we're lamenting the loss of are well over 1100 sqft.

And a note about new vs old: Are single family 1100 sqft homes still being built? It seems to me that 1100 works much better as a single floor unit in a multifamily building than it does over of multiple floors in a single family.
     
     
  #22051  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 1:19 PM
McBane McBane is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by allovertown View Post
... Again though, you're just talking about size. An 1,100 sq foot home is 1,100 sq feet whether it was built in 1920 or 2017. Do you think it's easier to fit a first floor bathroom in a newer 1,100 sq ft home? Sure a first floor bathroom and a master bathroom is not an ostentatious luxury, but for an 1,100 sq foot home, it kind of is because it's simply not practical to fit 2.5 brs in a home that small, whether it was built after 1970 or not.

You're saying old homes are not suitable, but then you're not talking about anything at all that relates to the age of the home, you're just talking about the size. I simply do not understand this argument.

These types of small starter homes are essential for communities and there will always be a place for them, even if they're not personally suitable for you. And judging by how much an 1,100 sq foot room that is updated and in a desirable neighborhood can go for, there's clearly still a very strong market for small homes even in these modern times.

It seems like maybe you're saying Philly simply has too many small homes as compared to large homes? OK I guess, and maybe 2022 Philly would ideally have a higher percentage of larger homes that what existed in the past. Again though, this has nothing to do with the age of a rowhome. You're just talking about size.

Some of the homes you'll find in spruce hill are well over 100 years old, much older than the 1,100 sq ft homes that were built in the 50s you'll find all over the city. And yet according to you, these homes are more suitable for modern living. It's almost as though the age of the home is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
You're right, the age of the home is completely irrelevant. I never said the issue was older homes in general, so not sure where you got that from. I am talking specifically about the ubiquitous rows of homes that were built for the middle class back in the day but no longer meet the needs of today's middle class families. It has nothing to do with age. The grand old homes in Chestnut Hill and Spruce Hill for example were never built for middle class families. And because those neighborhoods are wealthy, it makes sense for the owners to invest and update them (whereas it doesn't make sense to spend $100k on renovating a big old home in Strawberry Mansion that may only be worth $200k at most). But again, I'm talking about our city's middle class housing stock.
     
     
  #22052  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 1:57 PM
PurpleWhiteOut PurpleWhiteOut is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardeza View Post
is that really an improvement? Its taller but its still detached.
It might take up the whole lot while the ones next door don't. The whole area is zoned for single family attached.
     
     
  #22053  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 2:15 PM
TempleGuy1000 TempleGuy1000 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut View Post
It looks like the properties from 12th to broad are owner-occupied, but everything east of 12th is PHA owned. If the Sharswood redevelopment is successful, I would love to see that repeated here with a replacement with rowhomes, a grocery store, and mixed use.
The Richard Allen projects was/is one of the first federally funded projects built in Philadelphia. Part of the goal now and since the 2000s has been for residents to end up owning the houses.

Quote:
Richard Allen's most famous resident was comedian Bill Cosby, who grew up here. Longtime locals remember Cosby and his friend, the real "Fat Albert," walking up Marshall Street every week.

Richard Allen Homes displaced more people than it housed. Like many other federal "slum renewal" projects of early- and mid-20th century, the construction of Richard Allen actually destroyed hundreds of occupied row homes and erased the existing African American neighborhood along 11th Street.

By the 1980s, the residents of Richard Allen were faced with deteriorating conditions and mounting crime. The bunker-like construction of the sprawling complex that was once hailed as an example of progressive design now made residents feel isolated from the surrounding neighborhood. Federal and municipal government budget cuts slashed maintenance staff. Despite doing repairs and clean-up themselves, the residents of Richard Allen were left without real resources to contend with faulty electrical wiring, dilapidated sewage systems, and the overall decay of infrastructure and courtyards. Empty apartments—left unsealed by the housing authorities—became a convenient haven for drug users; dealers took advantage of the complex's maze of courtyards.

After the redevelopment in 2003, stricter residential requirements have resulted in relatively more affluent and stable residents who are on the path to home ownership. PHA asserts that reinvented public housing improves housing conditions, reduces blight, and raises the property values of the surrounding neighborhood.
http://www.philaplace.org/story/252/
     
     
  #22054  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 2:41 PM
EastSideHBG's Avatar
EastSideHBG EastSideHBG is offline
Me?!?
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Philadelphia Metro
Posts: 11,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
SD is the only West Coast city I like. Reminds me of home in a lot of ways.
I haven't been back there in a few years but yeah, I know what you mean.
__________________
Right before your eyes you're victimized, guys, that's the world of today and it ain't civilized.
     
     
  #22055  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 3:17 PM
PhilliesPhan's Avatar
PhilliesPhan PhilliesPhan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 1,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
SD is the only West Coast city I like. Reminds me of home in a lot of ways.
I visited SD for the first time last November. It was more of a side trip, as I was staying in LA and took the Pacific Surfliner down the coast. To this day, I wish I would have just stayed in SD. It is one of the most beautiful cities I have ever laid eyes on, and certain neighborhoods (especially North Park) indeed reminded me of Philadelphia. I'll never forget taking the light rail to San Ysidro and heading over to Tijuana, brewery-hopping on University Avenue, walking through Balboa Park directly after, and partying in the Gaslamp District after missing the last train of the night!

I liked SD so, so, SO much better than LA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyTone View Post
In other development news, I noticed a new construction home going up in poplar.



Will we start to see those single family homes getting demolished and now more dense properties going back up?
So THAT'S what I've been seeing from my train! It's exciting to see something denser rise in West Poplar, even if it's detached. I get that the outlook for North Philly was likely abysmal when the PHA decided to plop single-family homes down in West Poplar, but those homes have no business being so close to Center City and right off of major transit arteries. I would love to see that entire area redeveloped as a mixed-income, mixed-use neighborhood.
__________________
No one outsmarts a Fox!

Temple University '18 ']['
     
     
  #22056  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 3:18 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is offline
Chris
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyTone View Post
In other development news, I noticed a new construction home going up in poplar.



Will we start to see those single family homes getting demolished and now more dense properties going back up?
Doesn't look like anything was demolished. The new home is between the existing ones, see Streetview... https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9697...7i16384!8i8192

The idea of infill development around here is good, but there needs to be some cohesion. This area already looks awful and this project doesn't help besides utilizing empty space.
     
     
  #22057  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 5:16 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by allovertown View Post
... Again though, you're just talking about size. An 1,100 sq foot home is 1,100 sq feet whether it was built in 1920 or 2017. Do you think it's easier to fit a first floor bathroom in a newer 1,100 sq ft home? Sure a first floor bathroom and a master bathroom is not an ostentatious luxury, but for an 1,100 sq foot home, it kind of is because it's simply not practical to fit 2.5 brs in a home that small, whether it was built after 1970 or not.

You're saying old homes are not suitable, but then you're not talking about anything at all that relates to the age of the home, you're just talking about the size. I simply do not understand this argument.

These types of small starter homes are essential for communities and there will always be a place for them, even if they're not personally suitable for you. And judging by how much an 1,100 sq foot room that is updated and in a desirable neighborhood can go for, there's clearly still a very strong market for small homes even in these modern times.

It seems like maybe you're saying Philly simply has too many small homes as compared to large homes? OK I guess, and maybe 2022 Philly would ideally have a higher percentage of larger homes that what existed in the past. Again though, this has nothing to do with the age of a rowhome. You're just talking about size.

Some of the homes you'll find in spruce hill are well over 100 years old, much older than the 1,100 sq ft homes that were built in the 50s you'll find all over the city. And yet according to you, these homes are more suitable for modern living. It's almost as though the age of the home is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
This is an especially weird conversation to have in light of the fact that family sizes are smaller than they have been in all of human history. Like, a typical family unit in many cases today is less than 2 people (a single, a couple, or a single parent with 1 child). In many more, it's 3 people (different permutations of the above).

Many of us had parents who were raised in 3 br 1 bath homes with like 4+ kids and all of a sudden it's a burden for a child not to have their own dedicated en suite.
     
     
  #22058  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 5:20 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan View Post
I visited SD for the first time last November. It was more of a side trip, as I was staying in LA and took the Pacific Surfliner down the coast. To this day, I wish I would have just stayed in SD. It is one of the most beautiful cities I have ever laid eyes on, and certain neighborhoods (especially North Park) indeed reminded me of Philadelphia. I'll never forget taking the light rail to San Ysidro and heading over to Tijuana, brewery-hopping on University Avenue, walking through Balboa Park directly after, and partying in the Gaslamp District after missing the last train of the night!

I liked SD so, so, SO much better than LA.



So THAT'S what I've been seeing from my train! It's exciting to see something denser rise in West Poplar, even if it's detached. I get that the outlook for North Philly was likely abysmal when the PHA decided to plop single-family homes down in West Poplar, but those homes have no business being so close to Center City and right off of major transit arteries. I would love to see that entire area redeveloped as a mixed-income, mixed-use neighborhood.
I know it's crazy, but I'd love to see some of those homes come down for weirdly spectacular single family homes with yards. Like, set back from the street a little bit with a small front yard a la DC or Boston or a wall with gates and like covered ivy or something. Philly doesn't have any 'in town' single family homes. Most cities do, with the exception of Manhattan. But even Brooklyn has large swathes of certain neighborhoods with stand alone luxurious homes.

Like, blocks and blocks of that home that was built at 3rd & Walnut a few decades ago.
     
     
  #22059  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 5:32 PM
mcgrath618's Avatar
mcgrath618 mcgrath618 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Clark Park, Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 3,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
I know it's crazy, but I'd love to see some of those homes come down for weirdly spectacular single family homes with yards. Like, set back from the street a little bit with a small front yard a la DC or Boston or a wall with gates and like covered ivy or something. Philly doesn't have any 'in town' single family homes. Most cities do, with the exception of Manhattan. But even Brooklyn has large swathes of certain neighborhoods with stand alone luxurious homes.

Like, blocks and blocks of that home that was built at 3rd & Walnut a few decades ago.
What you are describing is essentially Chestnut Hill, no?
__________________
Philadelphia Transportation Thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=164129
     
     
  #22060  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2022, 5:35 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is offline
Chris
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
I know it's crazy, but I'd love to see some of those homes come down for weirdly spectacular single family homes with yards. Like, set back from the street a little bit with a small front yard a la DC or Boston or a wall with gates and like covered ivy or something. Philly doesn't have any 'in town' single family homes. Most cities do, with the exception of Manhattan. But even Brooklyn has large swathes of certain neighborhoods with stand alone luxurious homes.

Like, blocks and blocks of that home that was built at 3rd & Walnut a few decades ago.
Even if they aren't singles, I wish Philadelphia had more neighborhoods with generous setbacks allowing for front gardens/greenery.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9088...7i16384!8i8192

Where are the areas of DC and Boston (near the core) that have large detached single family homes? I know they exist, just blanking. Chicago has a lot of them, including the gardens (shown above).
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:50 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.