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  #441  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2023, 12:23 AM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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Yeah there are some intriguing options. Would be nice if everything that isn't more than paint on the street would not cost like $9B and take enough time for me to raise a newborn to driving age.
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  #442  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2023, 12:44 AM
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Agreed.
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  #443  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2023, 12:46 AM
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I've taken the subway/bus connection to LaGuardia, and didn't find it to be a horrible experience. But for people who aren't every day public transit users, and people with multiple bags, and for people who simply would like to get there without the possibilities of traffic delays, it's not ideal.

People also need to take into consideration that any rail travel to the airports should focus on regional access, and not just access from Manhattan. That's why the airtrain at Kennedy works so well. The connection at Jamaica makes it convenient to Long Island as well as Manhattan, and it's connection to the A train provides connections throughout Brooklyn. That's why simply extending the N train, which would be welcome for a direct Manhattan connection, alone isn't ideal.

Whatever they get around to building at Sunnyside needs to be planned with a direct Laguardia connection that also connects to the LIRR and the subways there. Bus lanes are just the lazy cop out, even if it costs less. And I hate to sday it, but if Robert Moses were alive today, the rail connection would have been built already. Sometimes a decision has to be made, and you have to stick with it, unless there is a better alternative ready to take its place. There is no better alternative taking place here. Just the lack of will to get it done.
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  #444  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2023, 1:04 AM
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Robert Moses is a lightening rod but I've never been more convinced that NYC needs a Robert Moses like power broker again - just one whose mission is transit, cycling and the pedestrian experience.
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  #445  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2023, 1:22 AM
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Robert Moses is a lightening rod but I've never been more convinced that NYC needs a Robert Moses like power broker again - just one whose mission is transit, cycling and the pedestrian experience.
Yeah, not everyone is a fan of Moses. Even I don't like everything the man did, but I feel he pulled the city together with the various projects. I mean that in a literal sense. I refuse to believe that this great city, with everything that it's done before, can't get this one thing built. There just has to be a will. There will be opposition no matter what the plan is. To get anything done, you have to work with the assumption that some opposition will be constant. Not everyone will be pleased because everyone can't be pleased. The city can no longer afford to be paralyzed by that fact. I know that not everyone will see a rail link to the airport as essential, especially considering some of the various subway improvements and extensions that can be made. But I think the lack of rail access to LaGuardia - in a city that is known for its rail transit - is unacceptable at this point.
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  #446  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2023, 1:43 AM
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A lack of urgency and shame is a large part of the problem. I wish the dynamic allowed peer cities to just savage NY for its shortcomings. Maybe that woyld restore an era of optimism in a city that has been nursing the wounds of the the bottom falling out for decades.
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  #447  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2023, 4:21 PM
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Weird how a subway train at or slightly below grade would interfere with flight ops but the huge expressway doing the same is perfectly fine. Time and $ estimates are beyond insane anyway.
FLIGHT OPS!!

That's the funniest shit I've ever heard... what did they plan on doing? Running the rail line on the tarmac of the two runways??
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  #448  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2023, 5:44 PM
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FLIGHT OPS!!

That's the funniest shit I've ever heard... what did they plan on doing? Running the rail line on the tarmac of the two runways??
Nearly as good as when the PA said they could not possibly extend the N because it would disrupt the Hell Gate Bridge.
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  #449  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2023, 6:00 PM
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The Cant-Doism really is astonishing. I don't know what the solution is short of natural leadership attrition.
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  #450  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 1:44 AM
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Maybe they need someone to shame them into taking action. Not enough noise is being made about it, because most city residents see other transit needs. It's embarrassing that they've finally built a respectable LaGuardia, only to say "good luck" getting to it. Bus lanes to the airport in New York City? Really? That's the best they could come up with at this time? All should be embarrassed.
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  #451  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2023, 2:58 AM
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100%
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  #452  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 6:16 AM
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On the brighter side...


https://qns.com/2023/03/laguardia-be...port-terminal/

Survey says: LaGuardia’s new Terminal B named world’s best new airport terminal

By Bill Parry
March 16, 2023


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It may not be getting an AirTrain, but LaGuardia Airport’s new $4 billion Terminal B was named the world’s best new terminal based on a global passenger survey, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey announced Wednesday, March 15.

The survey was conducted by the airport rating firm Skytrax and is based on multiple factors including check-in, shopping, security, terminal comfort and ambiance and choice of bars and restaurants. Presentations for a range of honors, including the world’s best airport as well as best terminal, were announced at the Passenger Terminal Expo in Amsterdam on March 15.

Terminal B is also the first airline terminal in North America to achieve the highest global 5-Star Airport Terminal Rating from Skytrax, referred to as the “Oscars of the airport industry,” as a quality benchmark in assessing customer service and facilities across more than 550 airports.

“Our goal at the Port Authority was to completely transform the customer experience at LaGuardia, from curb to gate, by building a brand-new, world-class airport,” Port Authority Executive Director Rick Cotton said. “Winning this prestigious award and becoming the first North American airport terminal to receive a 5-star rating from Skytrax proves that we have accomplished what many once said was impossible: elevate LaGuardia from worst to best.”

“This 5-star airport terminal rating is a fabulous achievement for Terminal B LaGuardia Airport, being just one of 22 airports and terminals worldwide to achieve our highest 5-star rating,” Skytrax CEO Edward Plaisted said. “This terminal provides an excellent range of passenger facilities, and particular standouts include very good standards of wayfinding and signage, high standards of staff service, and some very nice design and art features.”

LaGuardia Gateway Partners, the private consortium of airline experts that developed and now manages Terminal B, is proud of the prestigious accolades.

“We’re thrilled that Terminal B was named the best new airport terminal in the world and received the first 5-star rating for an airport terminal in North America by Skytrax, the leading authority in airport experience,” LaGuardia Gateway Partners CEO Frank Scremin said. “This is a testament to the hard work and dedication of the LaGuardia Gateway Partners team as well as the entire Terminal B community – the more than 5,000 individuals who come together to provide the best experience for our terminal guests.”



https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...campaign=share

AMERICA BUILT AN ACTUALLY GOOD AIRPORT
LaGuardia is reborn, and it has a message for the nation.


By Ian Bogost
FEBRUARY 22, 2023


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In 2004, Steven Spielberg made an entire movie about the terror of getting stuck for months in an airport, but I might be happy never to leave the new LaGuardia.

Air travel itself, the part where you are crammed like a rodent into a metal tube, is clearly miserable. So is everything in its orbit: the barfsome cab from the city, the shameful indignity of security, the sullen panic of being away from home, and—most of all—the ghastly purgatory of the airport that detains you.

For a very long time, New York City’s LaGuardia Airport felt like the intricately dressed set of an apocalypse film. Spread across its terminals were abandoned check-in stands gone feral, floors damp with discharged moistures, low ceilings looming over dark corridors. Now, near the end of a nine-year, $8 billion rebuild of its main terminals and roadways, LaGuardia has become an unexpected hero for American infrastructural renewal. It is an incredible airport.

Terminal B, which houses most airlines, feels like a theme park—in a good way. Delta’s Terminal C, still under construction, has had its cramped and dingy concourses replaced with airy new spaces and a swank, cavernous airline club. Across the airport, sedans and taxis breeze through drop-offs and pickups unencumbered. The aircraft taxiways flow now too, making arrivals and departures more efficient. Slowly, word is getting out. People return from the Big Apple and talk about their trip to its airport instead of its restaurants or museums or theaters.
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Our country once took pride in building things, but then all the things got built. To take pride in rebuilding them will require new approaches to design. When I paid a visit to the renovated airport in East Elmhurst, Queens, I found that it has a message for America: The future of infrastructure is here, and it’s fun, and it’s expensive, and it’s built right on top of its forebears.

.....An airport isn’t generally a place where one stops moving, except to wait, sit, eat, or urinate. That’s even more the case in New York City, the world’s most impatient place. But in the center of the rebuilt LaGuardia, I watched, mesmerized, as travelers parked their roll-aboards abruptly, just so they could watch the stalks of water raining down. The shows change seasonally, giving even frequent fliers a reason to pause.

Airlines and their passengers have conflicting goals. An airline wants to get passengers to the gates and on the planes on time. Passengers want to avoid the boredom and discomfort that comes with spending time in airport seats. The only available distractions—walking, looking, shopping, eating, and entertainment—come at the cost of anxiety around departure.

Terminal B attempts to address this problem in its physical design. A central check-in and security space leads to this commercial zone, which then branches out to two concourses of gates, each accessed via a glass sky bridge that rises over the taxiways, planes passing underneath. Large, continuously updated signage shows travelers the timing of their flights. Human agents flank these signs, ready to answer questions and give advice.
Quote:
“In the U.S., we’re very much a go-to-the-gate culture,” said Scremin, who led this terminal’s redevelopment and now heads its management for LaGuardia Gateway Partners, a private-sector operator. By encouraging people to occupy the commercial district that radiates out from the fountain for as long as possible, Scremin explains, the airport discourages them from crowding together too early at the gates. It also brings in revenue for Scremin’s company, through retail leases.

Both goals are best accomplished, it turns out, by filling the airport with gratifying, even meaningful, activity. Scremin sees his role as being more like a hotelier’s than a property manager’s. Lighting dims and cools as the day turns to evening. The staff are dressed in black, hotel-style uniforms, and even the restrooms have attendants—and shelves, and entryways wide enough that you don’t bump suitcases with other passengers. The terminal is a place you want to be in rather than one you wish would just spit you out again. This is LaGuardia’s first lesson for rebuilders. Infrastructure can’t just serve a functional purpose, not anymore. It has to offer an experience.
Quote:
Some might sneer at that experience—Ugh, the airport has been Disney-fied. But let’s be honest: So has everything else. Times Square is a cartoon circus, and SoHo is a shopping mall. Little is packed in the Meatpacking District, and Washington Square Arch is an Instagram backdrop as much as a monument. Consumerism is crass, but it can be a price worth paying for renewal.

.......LaGuardia’s failure, so far, to extend subway service to its door shows just how difficult fitting the pieces together is. (It might yet happen.) But the lack of public transit is to some extent a function of what was there before: That’s what happens when you’re building new on top of old. The refurbished airport is more efficient than it’s ever been, but the ghosts of its deficiencies linger.
Quote:
Airports, wrote the anthropologist Marc Augé in the early 1990s, are “non-places.” Like hotels, conference centers, and shopping malls, they could be distinguished precisely by their indistinctness. When you go inside most airports, Augé explained, you might as well be going anywhere—New York, Topeka, Paris, Macau.

The new LaGuardia aspires to be not just any airport but New York City’s airport. The fountain show in Terminal B offers place-ness; so do local-business outlet shops, installations by local artists, and expansive views of the Manhattan skyline. Indeed it was the lack of this quality—or at least an embarrassing mismatch of place—that inspired the first version of the airport, back in the ’30s. After landing at Newark, the only commercial option at the time, Mayor Fiorello La Guardia complained that his ticket said “New York,” but he had landed in New Jersey. He demanded to be flown to the city for real, kicking off a campaign that eventually led to the new development. (As mayor, La Guardia was an infrastructure guy, overseeing the construction of two city airports, including the one that would later take his name.)

Shame and pride are two sides of the same coin. Twice now, the dishonor of New York City’s airports has helped catalyze their future. So here’s the third and final lesson for reinvigorating the nation’s infrastructure: Americans pretend that reason drives big changes, but passion always takes the wheel. Even Cotton, of the Port Authority, seems to think that’s true. When I asked him what other municipalities might learn from LaGuardia, he first listed off some platitudes about ambition and capability, a commitment to overcome obstacles and go through walls. But then he acknowledged another, deeper motivation: “the dismal situation to which we had fallen.”

.......Rebuilding wasn’t easy, but the challenge of deciding to rebuild came first. Perhaps the pride of building is less important than the shame of having failed to do so. If the nation’s civil engineering has now become a joke, and “infrastructure week” is just a punch line, that could mean America is on the right track.

I think that last statement sums up the Airtrain debacle, but LaGuardia still shines.
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  #453  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 1:33 PM
N830MH N830MH is offline
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Maybe they need someone to shame them into taking action. Not enough noise is being made about it, because most city residents see other transit needs. It's embarrassing that they've finally built a respectable LaGuardia, only to say "good luck" getting to it. Bus lanes to the airport in New York City? Really? That's the best they could come up with at this time? All should be embarrassed.
I know! It's so embarrassed! I don't like NY governor. She didn't listen to everybody! That's the problem! The buses are too slow and too much traffic! It's too overcrowded!! They should have a chance!

Should we sign the petition?? Please build LGA AirTrain now!
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  #454  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 2:14 PM
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The AirTrain was not the answer buddy. No petition needed.
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  #455  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 3:44 PM
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I know! It's so embarrassed! I don't like NY governor. She didn't listen to everybody! That's the problem! The buses are too slow and too much traffic! It's too overcrowded!! They should have a chance!

Should we sign the petition?? Please build LGA AirTrain now!

What planet are you on? Extending the subway is the only solution.
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  #456  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 1:37 AM
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What planet are you on? Extending the subway is the only solution.
Oh! I came from Phoenix, Arizona. I am still live on Earth. I haven't been in NYC for over a decade now. I knows subway very well. I didn't like ride on the city bus. The buses are too slow. I remember when I was teenager. My brother and his friend and I went to NYC to visit friends. We travels all over Eastern states. It's been over three decades ago. But we flew to JFK and we visit my friends in 2004 and came back to NYC in 2007.
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  #457  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2023, 2:33 PM
BuildThemTaller BuildThemTaller is offline
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Oh! I came from Phoenix, Arizona. I am still live on Earth. I haven't been in NYC for over a decade now. I knows subway very well. I didn't like ride on the city bus. The buses are too slow. I remember when I was teenager. My brother and his friend and I went to NYC to visit friends. We travels all over Eastern states. It's been over three decades ago. But we flew to JFK and we visit my friends in 2004 and came back to NYC in 2007.
Take it from the people that live in and are familiar with NYC: The AirTrain to LGA as proposed by Cuomo was a bad idea except for a very specific group of people. It wouldn't have been any faster than a bus for out-of-towners that wanted to get to Manhattan, Brooklyn, Western Queens, or anywhere other than Long Island and some parts of Eastern Queens. It would have been expensive, too, in terms of construction, and with an inconvenient fare collection system.

LGA needs a better and more long-term solution to connect it to the rest of the city. The Subway is the best and most practical long-term solution.
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  #458  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2023, 1:13 AM
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Take it from the people that live in and are familiar with NYC: The AirTrain to LGA as proposed by Cuomo was a bad idea except for a very specific group of people. It wouldn't have been any faster than a bus for out-of-towners that wanted to get to Manhattan, Brooklyn, Western Queens, or anywhere other than Long Island and some parts of Eastern Queens. It would have been expensive, too, in terms of construction, and with an inconvenient fare collection system.

LGA needs a better and more long-term solution to connect it to the rest of the city. The Subway is the best and most practical long-term solution.
Gosh! You're right! I didn't like Cuomo. He is bad governor. He already got 3rd terms. So he resigned after he is sexual harassment. He got trouble before. His brother got fired from CNN, too.

And for LGA subway, I think it is the right choice and easy ride. Very fast trains. They will extended the N train to LGA. So no need ride on AirTrain and it is very expensive. It was very bad idea! Subway is the logical choice and the best way to do it.
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  #459  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2023, 3:27 PM
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airtrain from the astoria N terminal to lga and then all the way to down to lirr, van wyck and jamaica.

basically cuomo plan ++

go big or go home!
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  #460  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2023, 9:06 AM
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airtrain from the astoria N terminal to lga and then all the way to down to lirr, van wyck and jamaica.

basically cuomo plan ++

go big or go home!
how would this work? genuine question, i'm not very familiar with new york. if the extension was elevated i would imagine residents would flip their shit. or would they transition the track to below grade, and just lose a block or two of the roadway?
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