Convention Center Expansion

[Mopacs]

Could the convention center garage catty-corner to the NE be utilized in some capacity? Is it city owned?

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.2628.../data=!3m1!1e3

[ILUVSAT]

Originally Posted by AusTxDevelopment

Unfortunately, if the city can't afford the pricing of the west lots, they certainly would not be able to afford South Shore.

True. But, in his plan, that cost would be offset by the sale of the old site.

[ATX2030]

Originally Posted by Mopacs

Could the convention center garage catty-corner to the NE be utilized in some capacity? Is it city owned?

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.2628.../data=!3m1!1e3

Expand east. Have the first floor follow the contour of Waller creek with space on either side of the creek. The rest of the floors could be built over the creek which would provide large floor space needed for conventions. The first floor space could be used for restaurants and bars along the creek. It would provide a pretty unique atmosphere plus the bars and restaurants could be used year round.

[AusTxDevelopment]

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

True. But, in his plan, that cost would be offset by the sale of the old site.

You're right - that's how a normal business would underwrite it. But the City of Austin would have to develop a new plan, get public input, buy the land, get the bond/taxes/etc. approved to pay to build the new CC, build it, transition to it THEN sell the old one. That would take years - probably decades - based on the way our city moves. Endeavor and Cox will have their redevelopment done long before the city could move on this. The City of Austin is not known for their efficiency.

[JAM]

Originally Posted by AusTxDevelopment

You're right - that's how a normal business would underwrite it. But the City of Austin would have to develop a new plan, get public input, buy the land, get the bond/taxes/etc. approved to pay to build the new CC, build it, transition to it THEN sell the old one. That would take years - probably decades - based on the way our city moves. Endeavor and Cox will have their redevelopment done long before the city could move on this. The City of Austin is not known for their efficiency.

Clearly understandable, they have way more important things to do, like re-imagining the police, where they can put their real expertise to work.

[We vs us]

Some things are starting to trickle down to the us:

-- ACC leadership will be on the June 10th city council docket to discuss next steps.
-- Looking like a phased construction process, starting with the south side in 2024ish, and then proceeding to the north side thereafter (we haven't seen a start date for that phase yet).
-- rumor has it that one of the most well known property owners under the Western expansion footprint had a ridiculous buyout price, because he has "plans" to build a 1000 room hotel on his property. The 1000 room hotel is patently ridiculous -- and probably impossible given the size of his property, but that (and the threat of throwing legal hurdle after legal hurdle in front of the expansion process) was one of the main reasons it died.

[AusTxDevelopment]

The Palm District planning is heading into phase II - "Visioning" where they will hold meetings for public input. Since this district includes the convention center, there should be some information about plans for it included in the public review documents once they are available. https://www.speakupaustin.org/palmdistrict

[H2O]

Originally Posted by We vs us

Some things are starting to trickle down to the us:

-- ACC leadership will be on the June 10th city council docket to discuss next steps.
-- Looking like a phased construction process, starting with the south side in 2024ish, and then proceeding to the north side thereafter (we haven't seen a start date for that phase yet).
-- rumor has it that one of the most well known property owners under the Western expansion footprint had a ridiculous buyout price, because he has "plans" to build a 1000 room hotel on his property. The 1000 room hotel is patently ridiculous -- and probably impossible given the size of his property, but that (and the threat of throwing legal hurdle after legal hurdle in front of the expansion process) was one of the main reasons it died.

Does a 1,000 room hotel require a full block to accommodate back of house, F & B, etc.?

[We vs us]

Originally Posted by H2O

Does a 1,000 room hotel require a full block to accommodate back of house, F & B, etc.?

Yes, pretty much. The JW and Fairmont both are 1000+ rooms; the Hilton is 800+. All are full or almost full city blocks. It's not so much the rooms themselves (you can build a rooms tower as tall as you want) -- it's the meeting space and outlets (restaurants, starbucks, etc), and as you note, everything back of the house.

Let's say you owned a quarter of a block that currently housed a Brazilian steak house. No matter what you do, you won't be able to make a successful 1000 room tower function without the rest of that crucial stuff.

[We vs us]

The city council will be talking about the Convention Center expansion tomorrow. There aren't currently any renderings or formal plans for what the new built-in-place center will look like but there are some details in the Recommendation For Action:

The full build out of the project will deliver over 360,000 square feet of exhibit space, 180,000 of meeting space, and 184,000 of ballroom/flex hall space. This will nearly double the amount of rental space the Convention Center has to offer to the market. It will also fulfil Council’s stated desire re-envision the Convention Center as an active, community-oriented civic building that enhances the culturally rich fabric of
the Palm District as described in Council Resolution 20190523-029 transforming the southeast gateway into
downtown Austin.

The estimated construction budget for this work is $1.3 billion and it is anticipated that construction will begin early Summer 2024.

https://www.austintexas.gov/edims/do....cfm?id=361162

By comparison, Music City Center in Nashville (one of Austin's major competitors) has 350k sq ft of exhibit space, 90k sq ft of meeting space, and two ballrooms totalling 75.5k sq ft.

While this is going to be long, slow, and deeply painful, in the end our facility is going to be pretty fantastic. Sometime in 2027 maybe.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by We vs us

The city council will be talking about the Convention Center expansion tomorrow. There aren't currently any renderings or formal plans for what the new built-in-place center will look like but there are some details in the Recommendation For Action:



https://www.austintexas.gov/edims/do....cfm?id=361162

By comparison, Music City Center in Nashville (one of Austin's major competitors) has 350k sq ft of exhibit space, 90k sq ft of meeting space, and two ballrooms totalling 75.5k sq ft.

While this is going to be long, slow, and deeply painful, in the end our facility is going to be pretty fantastic. Sometime in 2027 maybe.

Anyone know off the top of their head how that size compares to the (now abandoned) western expansion plans? Just to save me the time to find it.

[We vs us]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Anyone know off the top of their head how that size compares to the (now abandoned) western expansion plans? Just to save me the time to find it.

Interestingly, I'm not sure if we ever got to a final sq footage estimate. There were always broad strokes like "ballrooms up, exhibit halls down." But never a specific estimate that I can remember.

[We vs us]

Also, ABJ has an article. CC staff will have more details to present after the city council's summer break (by late July).

https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/n...e-forward.html

[We vs us]

It just amazes me how constant the state of misunderstanding is among our elected leaders.

Maybe I need to recalibrate my own sense of how often the basic argument needs to be made and remade and remade again.

https://www.austinmonitor.com/storie...sion-skeptics/

[chinchaaa]

Originally Posted by We vs us

It just amazes me how constant the state of misunderstanding is among our elected leaders.

Maybe I need to recalibrate my own sense of how often the basic argument needs to be made and remade and remade again.

https://www.austinmonitor.com/storie...sion-skeptics/

Bureaucracy at its finest.

[We vs us]

Originally Posted by chinchaaa

Bureaucracy at its finest.

Yes . . . but also maybe democracy? Our friend the Commissioner in this article is mostly just grandstanding and causing Confusion and Delay.

[DaveinWimberley]

This could be fixed so easily. Just have a Supertall Convention Center which can be expandable to, say, 2000 feet tall. Hire a renowned architect to work out all the engineering specs. Then it can be expanded, as needed. It would become an iconic convention center while at the same time preserving valuable land to use for residential and commercial projects. Austin should think big.
If the FAA complains, just designate it as a manmade mountain.
It's better than moving the Convention Center out to the Exposition Center.

[atxsnail]

Originally Posted by We vs us

Yes . . . but also maybe democracy? Our friend the Commissioner in this article is mostly just grandstanding and causing Confusion and Delay.

You've just described Mike Lavigne's entire worldview

[We vs us]

Rant:

Here's a worthwhile exercise:

We just finished a tour with a group of planners representing a major national nonprofit. Austin is a strong contender to host their annual meeting in 2027. The meeting will use the entirety of ACC for about 12 days (which includes load-in and load-out time), and bring in about 13,500 total room nights to the downtown area. That means that the Hilton, the Fairmont, the JW, and the new Marriott will be mostly or fully engaged during this time. The Hampton, the Hyatt Place, Courtyard/Residence Inn, Westin, Thompson/tommie, etc . . . all will have some exposure as well.

The rate that I bid for their program was $329. That was a high bid, because if they select us I expect to negotiate. My hotel will probably land around $299. Because they will use a mix of hotel types and value levels, we can assume that there will be higher and lower rates, but let's assume that the average daily rate (ADR) for the city as a whole is $299.

Total room Nights = 13,500
x Average Daily Rate = $299
= $4,036,500 in total rooms revenue.

Occupancy tax is currently 17%, and assuming that holds true in 2027, the taxes generated from the rooms alone would be $686,205.

This calculation doesn't include the food and beverage spend that the convention officially does (in 2019, their last normal year, we know they spent $7.8M in banquet F&B). And that $7.8M doesn't include the money people individually spent on meals, nor does it include what we call "affiliate" spend, which is the business generated by associated but not official entities (companies that attend and hold receptions for clients, or regional groups within the main org that need to meet annually, etc).

All told, there's a great chance that this single event will bring in about $1M in direct and ancillary taxes to the city/state. And in a standard year, there are 2-4 of these a month in the city.

Dude Man Commissioner was framing his argument as a "why not build something that MAKES us money, rather than a big sucking hole in the ground." But of course that framing is dead wrong because the CC generates a CRAP TON of revenue. And of course Austin would get none of these events if the CC didn't exist.

One day I'll come back and bore you with the jobs side of this equation, which, despite our stubborn post-pandemic difficulties hiring staff, are still net positive to the city.

/rant

[freerover]

Originally Posted by We vs us

Rant:

Here's a worthwhile exercise:

We just finished a tour with a group of planners representing a major national nonprofit. Austin is a strong contender to host their annual meeting in 2027. The meeting will use the entirety of ACC for about 12 days (which includes load-in and load-out time), and bring in about 13,500 total room nights to the downtown area. That means that the Hilton, the Fairmont, the JW, and the new Marriott will be mostly or fully engaged during this time. The Hampton, the Hyatt Place, Courtyard/Residence Inn, Westin, Thompson/tommie, etc . . . all will have some exposure as well.

The rate that I bid for their program was $329. That was a high bid, because if they select us I expect to negotiate. My hotel will probably land around $299. Because they will use a mix of hotel types and value levels, we can assume that there will be higher and lower rates, but let's assume that the average daily rate (ADR) for the city as a whole is $299.

Total room Nights = 13,500
x Average Daily Rate = $299
= $4,036,500 in total rooms revenue.

Occupancy tax is currently 17%, and assuming that holds true in 2027, the taxes generated from the rooms alone would be $686,205.

This calculation doesn't include the food and beverage spend that the convention officially does (in 2019, their last normal year, we know they spent $7.8M in banquet F&B). And that $7.8M doesn't include the money people individually spent on meals, nor does it include what we call "affiliate" spend, which is the business generated by associated but not official entities (companies that attend and hold receptions for clients, or regional groups within the main org that need to meet annually, etc).

All told, there's a great chance that this single event will bring in about $1M in direct and ancillary taxes to the city/state. And in a standard year, there are 2-4 of these a month in the city.

Dude Man Commissioner was framing his argument as a "why not build something that MAKES us money, rather than a big sucking hole in the ground." But of course that framing is dead wrong because the CC generates a CRAP TON of revenue. And of course Austin would get none of these events if the CC didn't exist.

One day I'll come back and bore you with the jobs side of this equation, which, despite our stubborn post-pandemic difficulties hiring staff, are still net positive to the city.

/rant

100%. It's annoying to see the dumb takes on both sides of the political aisle.