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  #1  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2022, 9:36 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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US states with the most (and least) detached single-family housing

The least single-family oriented places in the United States are mostly in the Northeast corridor. The most single-family oriented places are rural followed by the Rust Belt. The Sun Belt falls mostly in the middle of the pack.

Detached single-family houses as % of total housing in all MSAs within state (most single-family oriented to least):

  1. Idaho -- 75%
  2. Oklahoma -- 72%
  3. Indiana -- 72%
  4. Mississippi -- 71%
  5. West Virginia -- 70%
  6. Michigan -- 70%
  7. Missouri -- 70%
  8. Alabama -- 69%
  9. Kansas -- 69%
  10. Arkansas -- 69%
  11. Wyoming -- 68%
  12. Utah -- 68%
  13. Nebraska -- 68%
  14. Tennessee -- 68%
  15. Iowa -- 67%
  16. Kentucky[/B] -- 67%
  17. Ohio -- 67%
  18. Georgia -- 67%
  19. Maine -- 66%
  20. Louisiana -- 66%
  21. Montana -- 65%
  22. North Carolina -- 65%
  23. New Mexico -- 64%
  24. South Carolina -- 64%
  25. Texas -- 64%
  26. Arizona -- 64%
  27. South Dakota -- 64%
  28. Minnesota -- 63%
  29. Colorado -- 63%
  30. Oregon -- 62%
  31. Washington -- 62%
  32. Wisconsin -- 62%
  33. New Hampshire -- 60%
  34. Virginia -- 59%
  35. Nevada -- 59%
  36. Delaware -- 59%
  37. Vermont -- 58%
  38. Alaska -- 58%
  39. Connecticut -- 58%
  40. California -- 57%
  41. Illinois -- 56%
  42. Rhode Island -- 55%
  43. Pennsylvania -- 55%
  44. Florida -- 55%
  45. New Jersey -- 54%
  46. Massachusetts -- 52%
  47. Maryland -- 51%
  48. North Dakota -- 48%
  49. Hawaii -- 47%
  50. New York -- 39%
  51. District of Columbia -- 12%


Detached single-family houses as % of total housing inside principal city of MSAs within state (most single-family oriented to least):
  1. Wyoming -- 68%
  2. Oklahoma -- 67%
  3. West Virginia -- 66%
  4. Idaho -- 65%
  5. Michigan -- 64%
  6. Alabama -- 64%
  7. Indiana -- 63%
  8. Kansas -- 63%
  9. Arkansas -- 62%
  10. Nebraska -- 62%
  11. Kentucky -- 62%
  12. Mississippi -- 62%
  13. New Mexico -- 61%
  14. Iowa -- 60%
  15. Louisiana -- 59%
  16. Montana -- 59%
  17. Arizona -- 58%
  18. Tennessee -- 57%
  19. Nevada -- 57%
  20. Missouri -- 57%
  21. Texas -- 56%
  22. South Dakota -- 56%
  23. Oregon -- 55%
  24. North Carolina -- 55%
  25. Colorado -- 54%
  26. Ohio -- 54%
  27. South Carolina -- 52%
  28. Utah -- 52%
  29. Georgia -- 52%
  30. Washington -- 51%
  31. Minnesota -- 50%
  32. Wisconsin -- 49%
  33. Florida -- 49%
  34. California -- 47%
  35. Alaska -- 47%
  36. Virginia -- 46%
  37. Maine -- 43%
  38. Rhode Island -- 40%
  39. New Hampshire -- 39%
  40. North Dakota -- 39%
  41. Illinois -- 37%
  42. Connecticut -- 35%
  43. Vermont -- 34%
  44. Hawaii -- 31%
  45. Massachusetts -- 27%
  46. Maryland -- 25%
  47. Pennsylvania -- 21%
  48. Delaware -- 21%
  49. New Jersey -- 19%
  50. New York -- 14%
  51. District of Columbia -- 12%


Detached single-family houses as % of total housing outside principal city of MSA by state (most single-family oriented to least):
  1. Idaho -- 81%
  2. Alaska -- 79%
  3. Nebraska -- 79%
  4. Indiana -- 79%
  5. Kansas -- 78%
  6. Oklahoma -- 77%
  7. Tennessee -- 77%
  8. South Dakota -- 77%
  9. Missouri -- 76%
  10. Iowa -- 76%
  11. Montana -- 75%
  12. Arkansas -- 75%
  13. Utah -- 74%
  14. Mississippi -- 74%
  15. Texas -- 74%
  16. Ohio -- 73%
  17. Alabama -- 73%
  18. Michigan -- 73%
  19. Maine -- 72%
  20. Colorado -- 72%
  21. North Carolina -- 72%
  22. Kentucky -- 72%
  23. Georgia -- 72%
  24. West Virginia -- 72%
  25. Arizona -- 71%
  26. Washington -- 71%
  27. Wisconsin -- 70%
  28. Louisiana -- 70%
  29. New York -- 70%
  30. Minnesota -- 70%
  31. North Dakota -- 69%
  32. Oregon -- 69%
  33. Illinois -- 69%
  34. Wyoming -- 69%
  35. New Mexico -- 69%
  36. South Carolina -- 68%
  37. Vermont -- 67%
  38. Connecticut -- 67%
  39. New Hampshire -- 67%
  40. California -- 66%
  41. Pennsylvania -- 66%
  42. Virginia -- 66%
  43. Delaware -- 63%
  44. Nevada -- 62%
  45. Rhode Island -- 60%
  46. Hawaii -- 59%
  47. Massachusetts -- 58%
  48. New Jersey -- 58%
  49. Maryland -- 58%
  50. Florida -- 57%

source: US Census bureau 2020 estimates
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  #2  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2022, 11:16 PM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Question: do these lists use ALL principal cities of a metro area (e.g. Austin, Round Rock, San Marcos, etc.) or only the primary principal city (e.g. Austin)? If the former, that would tend to have the effect of raising the detached single family home percents for both lists 2 and 3.

—————

Mathematical Proof:

A priori: this is because “secondary” principal cities, S, tend to have more detached single family homes than “primary” principal cities, P, but less than the balance, B, of their metro: B > S > P.

Thus, using weighted averages of B grouped with S and S grouped with P (to account for differences in principal city size):

B > BS > S > SP > P

List 1 is the weighted average of all three, BSP, and non-metropolitan rural counties, R, are excluded altogether.

As it is, there are only two other groups presented here, lists 2 and 3 must be either one of these sets:

B and SP
BS and P

Note that my original point, including S with P rather than B tending to have the effect of increasing both numbers presented vis-a-vis the counterfactual (including S with B), follows from the above: SP > P and B > BS.

Very similar to how when the average person from California moves to Texas, they tend have the effect of making both states more blue.

That begs these questions: does this include Micropolitan Statistical Areas (mSAs) or have you restricted the dataset to only Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSAs)? If you have restricted the dataset, did you go further and apply a minimum size threshold? If so, what is that threshold? Did you limit your data to only owner-occupied detached single family homes?

—————

To be honest, I would love to see the data very similar to what you calculated (which I love, by the way, thank you for this) for four data types:

• owner-occupied detached single family homes
• rented detached single family homes
• owner-occupied other residential units
• rented other residential units

For each of these data types, I would break them up thusly:

• Statewide Total
• Rural
• mSAs (collectively)
• MSAs{<1mil}—B (collectively)
• MSAs{<1mil}—S (collectively)
• MSAs{<1mil}—P (collectively)
• MSA-div{MSA>1mil}—B (individually)
• MSA-div{MSA>1mil}—S (individually)
• MSA-div{MSA>1mil}—P (individually)

The comparisons between these numbers would allow us to see which places are successfully providing housing supply to meet their demand AND developers are meeting that supply in a way that allows ALL individuals to build equity, which places are meeting demand but in a way that deprives individuals to accumulate wealth, and which places are not meeting demand at all (or exceeding it, destroying equity built by those previously).

—————

An interesting derivable nugget that might hint at what we’d see, although the way I interpret these numbers is as principal cities dropping the ball on providing housing the lower the number goes (if that state has a hot housing market).

(List 3 - List 2) the disparity in detached single family home rates between the primary principal city (or the collection of all principal cities?) and the balance of their metropolitan areas (or micropolitan areas?), collectively per state:
  1. New York — ~56%
  2. Pennsylvania — ~45%
  3. Delaware — ~42%
  4. New Jersey — ~39%
  5. Maryland — ~33%
  6. Vermont — ~33%
  7. Connecticut — ~32%
  8. Alaska — ~32%
  9. Massachusetts — ~31%
  10. North Dakota — ~30%
  11. Maine — ~29%
  12. New Hampshire — ~28%
  13. Hawaii — ~28%
  14. Utah — ~22%
  15. Illinois — ~22%
  16. South Dakota — ~21%
  17. Wisconsin — ~21%
  18. Virginia — ~20%
  19. Tennessee — ~20%
  20. Georgia — ~20%
  21. Washington —~20%
  22. Minnesota — ~20%
  23. Rhode Island — ~20%
  24. Missouri — ~19%
  25. Ohio — ~19%
  26. California — ~19%
  27. Texas — ~18%
  28. Colorado — ~18%
  29. North Carolina — ~17%
  30. Idaho — ~16%
  31. Iowa — ~16%
  32. Montana — ~16%
  33. South Carolina — ~16%
  34. Nebraska — ~15%
  35. Indiana — ~14%
  36. Oregon — ~14%
  37. Kansas — ~13%
  38. Arkansas — ~13%
  39. Arizona — ~13%
  40. Mississippi — ~12%
  41. Louisiana — ~11%
  42. Oklahoma — ~10%
  43. Kentucky — ~10%
  44. Alabama — ~9%
  45. Michigan — ~9%
  46. New Mexico — ~8%
  47. Florida — ~8%
  48. West Virginia — ~6%
  49. Nevada — ~5%
  50. Wyoming —~1%
__________________
HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)

Last edited by wwmiv; Oct 1, 2022 at 11:29 PM.
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  #3  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2022, 11:28 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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The census data was aggregated by state, so I don't have the list of cities considered for principal cities. But in a particular state it would include the principal city of each MSA (e.g. Albany, Buffalo, Rochester, New York, etc., are aggregated together for NYS).

Here is the definition of principal city per the US Census Bureau:

Quote:
The largest city in each metropolitan or micropolitan statistical area is designated a "principal city." Additional cities qualify if specified requirements are met concerning population size and employment. The title of each metropolitan or micropolitan statistical area consists of the names of up to three of its principal cities and the name of each state into which the metropolitan or micropolitan statistical area extends. Titles of metropolitan divisions also typically are based on principal city names but in certain cases consist of county names.
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  #4  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2022, 11:53 PM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
The census data was aggregated by state, so I don't have the list of cities considered for principal cities.
So… you didn’t compile this data yourself, you cribbed it from somewhere and someone else and presented it here without a link to the person, organization, or authority which went through the effort to compile the data? Your format heavily suggests (with a simple data source credit) that you used primary census data to compile these lists yourself. Is that not the case? If it is not the case, please give credit to the person who did and provide a link so I can ask them the same highly prescient questions. Otherwise, all you’re doing is plagiarism for the glory of it. That’s wrong. Period. Point blank. I refuse to live in the movie Idiocracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
But in a particular state it would include the principal city of each MSA (e.g. Albany, Buffalo, Rochester, New York, etc., are aggregated together for NYS).
Not quite.

Here are the current configurations:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-conten...etin-20-01.pdf

Albany MSA is not just Albany as the principal city. Both Schenectady and Troy are principal cities as well. Which is why I asked you the set of questions that I asked. And you don’t know the answers to those questions. Which is why I know you didn’t compile this data yourself. And why I know you’re trying to take credit for someone else’s work without providing the credit to them that forum rules require. Link to the page you got the data since you didn’t use primary sources to compile it yourself, please and thanks. #ethics.

If you did this at any job and got caught, you’d be fired. In college you’d be suspended or expelled. The things you uphold yourself to outside of those contexts speak to how you are going to act within those contexts. It isn’t irrelevant. It speaks to exactly who you are. It is also part of a pattern where you consistently fail in thread after thread to understand the basic mechanics of how Urban Areas and Metro Areas are crafted and what those categories actually mean and how they can be realistically and informatively interpreted.

Therein lies the problem with the anonymity of the internet: it allows people to slowly act out worse and worse behaviors because they are shielded from the social consequences. Eventually those behavior patterns bleed into their offline lives. We are all frogs in a pot called The Internet and social media companies are slowly turning up the heat. American society is decaying precisely because of this problem. Be a part of the solution and uphold yourself to better actions. Period. Even when you are anonymous.

New York City, Buffalo, Cheektowaga, Elmira, Ithica, Binghamton, Glens Falls, Kingston, White Plains, Poughkeepsie, Newburgh, Middletown, Woodbury, Rochester, Syracuse, Utica, Rome, Watertown, and Fort Drum are all principal cities and that doesn’t even delve into the Micropolitan Statistical Areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
The largest city in each metropolitan or micropolitan statistical area is designated a "principal city." Additional cities qualify if specified requirements are met concerning population size and employment.

The title of each metropolitan or micropolitan statistical area consists of the names of up to three of its principal cities and the name of each state into which the metropolitan or micropolitan statistical area extends. Titles of metropolitan divisions also typically are based on principal city names but in certain cases consist of county names.
Yes. I know. Thanks. I bolded some key parts for you which you seem to have missed.

Here are the current OMB guidelines:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...2010-15605.pdf
__________________
HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)

Last edited by wwmiv; Oct 2, 2022 at 12:07 AM.
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  #5  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 12:01 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Seems clear to the average reader that, using your nomenclature,

List 1 is BSP
List 2 is P (i.e. excludes S and B)
List 3 is BS (i.e. excludes P) (pun not intended!)
__________________
Suburbia is the worst capital sin / La soberbia es considerado el original y más serio de los pecados capitales
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  #6  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 12:07 AM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
So… you didn’t compile this data yourself, you cribbed it from somewhere and someone else and presented it here without a link to the person, organization, or authority which went through the effort to compile the data?
I cited the source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
source: US Census bureau 2020 estimates
I parsed a data set from the USCB. Any other questions you want answered should be directed at the US Census Bureau.
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  #7  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 12:11 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I cited the source.



I parsed a data set from the USCB. Any other questions you want answered should be directed at the US Census Bureau.
That style of sourcing is used only when you used primary source data to craft the specific numbers you present yourself. In other words, you downloaded their data, put it into a spreadsheet, made some deliberate choices as to data breadth and scope, and applied specific formulas to arrive at datapoints to present.

That is not what you did.

What you seemed to have done is copied and pasted something. In that case, forum rules require that you provide the actual link to the page from which you copied.

You cited their data. That isn’t your source. Your source is the webpage you copied and pasted from. Cite that.
__________________
HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
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  #8  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 12:12 AM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Location: New York
Posts: 9,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post

Albany MSA is not just Albany as the principal city. Both Schenectady and Troy are principal cities as well. Which is why I asked you the set of questions that I asked. And you don’t know the answers to those questions. Which is why I know you didn’t compile this data yourself. And why I know you’re trying to take credit for someone else’s work without providing the credit to them that forum rules require. Link to the page you got the data since you didn’t use primary sources to compile it yourself, please and thanks. #ethics.

If you did this at any job and got caught, you’d be fired. In college you’d be suspended or expelled. The things you uphold yourself to outside of those contexts speak to how you are going to act within those contexts. It isn’t irrelevant. It speaks to exactly who you are. It is also part of a pattern where you consistently fail in thread after thread to understand the basic mechanics of how Urban Areas and Metro Areas are crafted and what those categories actually mean and how they can be realistically and informatively interpreted.

Therein lies the problem with the anonymity of the internet: it allows people to slowly act out worse and worse behaviors because they are shielded from the social consequences. Eventually those behavior patterns bleed into their offline lives. We are all frogs in a pot called The Internet and social media companies are slowly turning up the heat. American society is decaying precisely because of this problem. Be a part of the solution and uphold yourself to better actions. Period. Even when you are anonymous.

New York City, Buffalo, Cheektowaga, Elmira, Ithica, Binghamton, Glens Falls, Kingston, White Plains, Poughkeepsie, Newburgh, Middletown, Woodbury, Rochester, Syracuse, Utica, Rome, Watertown, and Fort Drum are all principal cities and that doesn’t even delve into the Micropolitan Statistical Areas.



Yes. I know. Thanks. I bolded some key parts for you which you seem to have missed.

Here are the current OMB guidelines:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...2010-15605.pdf
Also, this is nonsense and you're just being a troll. Or you're high. I didn't misrepresent anything in the post. I presented the data exactly as I pulled it from the report. It is literally labeled "In metropolitan statistical area -- not in principal city" and "In metropolitan statistical area -- in principal city". There is nothing else to add.
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  #9  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 12:18 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Also, this is nonsense and you're just being a troll. Or you're high. I didn't misrepresent anything in the post. I presented the data exactly as I pulled it from the report. It is literally labeled "In metropolitan statistical area -- not in principal city" and "In metropolitan statistical area -- in principal city". There is nothing else to add.
I am not being a troll. You are being deliberately obtuse. And not giving proper credit nor following forum rules.

Well, given that I now know the datapoints were actually developed by, presented by, and published by the census bureau themselves (again: could you please link to the report from where you copied this data rather than just saying “it came from the census bureau!!!”), I can pretty solidly assume that all principal cities are being used here (S paired with P, using the math proof set up from above) rather than the primary principal city (the first named city in any MSA).

That assumption, of course, would not be one I could make if YOU had downloaded their primary datasets and done the calculations yourself. Again, the way you cited the data was incorrect and should only be used if you did the calculations yourself. I cannot repeat this enough. You are part of America’s problem, dude.
__________________
HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
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  #10  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 12:21 AM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
I am not being a troll. You are being deliberately obtuse. And not giving proper credit nor following forum rules.


Well, given that I now know the datapoints were actually developed by, presented by, and published by the census bureau (again: could you please link to the report from where you copied this data rather than just saying “it came from the census bureau!!!”), I can pretty solidly assume that all principal cities are being used here (S paired with P, using the math proof set up from above) rather than the primary principal city (the first named city in any MSA).

That assumption, of course, would not be one I could make if YOU had downloaded their primary datasets and done the calculations yourself. Again, the way you cited the data was incorrect and should only be used if you did the calculations yourself. I cannot repeat this enough. You are part of America’s problem, dude.
If you know already everything then you should know what report I retrieved the data.
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  #11  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 12:25 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
If you know everything then you should know where I got the data.
Wow. Just wow. This is manipulation and gaslighting. Get real dude. Are you the same bully in real life or is this just the courage you get from being anonymous online?

The whole point of providing proper source material is so that you can fully engage with a person when talking about that academic material. Even the most intelligent person in the world will always have difficulty finding someone’s source material when that person either doesn’t include (or worse) includes false or incorrect sourcing. It is YOUR JOB to provide those sources, not my job to find them.

Which is why, again, forum rules require you to properly link to anything you copy and paste from elsewhere.
__________________
HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
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  #12  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 12:27 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Seems clear to the average reader that, using your nomenclature,

List 1 is BSP
List 2 is P (i.e. excludes S and B)
List 3 is BS (i.e. excludes P) (pun not intended!)
Actually, I would argue that (provided the Census actually did this), the lists are:

1. BSP
2. B
3. SP

The Census has not traditionally differentiated between principal cities regardless of their size or inclusion in the title. If they put these numbers together (which I am not finding in a Housing press release anywhere), they likely followed that pattern.
__________________
HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
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  #13  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 12:37 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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I come here for intelligent commentary. There was zero reason for you to condescend to me as if I don’t actually know what I am talking about, as if my questions aren’t reasonable questions, then continually fail to provide the link that forum rules dictate, and then gaslight me into thinking I am the problem here. Calling you out for not following the rules (i.e. being a problem) is NOT a problem. Ever. If you see something, say something. I would appreciate a moderator step in to enforce the need for this user to source their material properly.

The reality is that this user was caught doing something historically socially inappropriate because they couldn’t answer simple questions asked in good faith for informative reasons and to start discussion (genuinely, I assumed that this user did the data legwork themselves just to post here, because I have done the same in the past), probably feels stupid and at risk because of their own poor choices, and is lashing out at the person who called them on it with ad hominem invective in hopes that nobody will notice how they acted and direct their anger at the oh so easy to pick on nerdy guy. This isn’t high school and we shouldn’t fall for it. We should no longer tolerate this behavior anywhere and everywhere and call people on it every single time until they learn and stop.

If you don’t want to actually reply in good faith to my questions and engage in a lively academic debate (the kind which this forum generally has) then there is an alternative for you: SkyscraperCity. I think you’ll find many people who share your attitudes there.
__________________
HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
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  #14  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 12:45 AM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Location: New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
I come here for intelligent commentary. There was zero reason for you to condescend to me as if I don’t actually know what I am talking about, as if my questions aren’t reasonable questions, then continually fail to provide the link that forum rules dictate, and then gaslight me into thinking I am the problem here. Calling you out for not following the rules (i.e. being a problem) is NOT a problem. Ever. If you see something, say something. I would appreciate a moderator step in to enforce the need for this user to source their material properly.

If you don’t want to actually reply in good faith to my questions and engage in a lively academic debate (the kind which this forum generally has) then there is an alternative for you: SkyscraperCity. I think you’ll find many people who share your attitudes there.
Oh bullshit. Don't try to play victim now. I answered your question and then you tried to claim I was the source of all of America's problems. Your complaint about the citation is arbitrary and nit-picky, and seemingly by your own admission you do already know exactly where to find the data. That said, if you find something that I legitimately misrepresented in the OP I am more than happy to correct it, which I have consistently done in my time posting on this forum.
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  #15  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 12:51 AM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
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North Dakota is the suprise inclusion in this list of the % of total single family in the state.
California -- 57%
Illinois -- 56%
Rhode Island -- 55%
Pennsylvania -- 55%
Florida -- 55%
New Jersey -- 54%
Massachusetts -- 52%
Maryland -- 51%
North Dakota -- 48%
Hawaii -- 47%
New York -- 39%
District of Columbia -- 12%
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  #16  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 12:57 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Location: Austin -> San Antonio -> Columbia -> San Antonio -> Chicago -> Austin -> Denver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Oh bullshit. Don't try to play victim now.
I would encourage anyone else reading this to look into your past to anyone who has used these same words directed at you. Were you playing the victim or was that person trying to manipulate the situation to their advantage by gaslighting you? Whenever I hear someone use these words, I automatically assume that the person is abusive and manipulative until proven otherwise. People rarely use these words in good faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I answered your question
You didn’t. You provided a partial answer and told me to go figure it out the rest myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
and then you tried to claim I was the source of all of America's problems.
You aren’t America’s problems dude and I never said that. Don’t have delusions of grandeur. You aren’t the center of the universe. What I said was that the behaviors you are exhibiting are the problems with America because they are too common and the rest of us are too scared to speak up against people like you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Your complaint about the citation is arbitrary and nit-picky, and seemingly by your own admission you do already know the source of the data.
You are, seemingly, only claiming it as arbitrary and nitpicky because you were unable to fully engage with my questions. In reality, you seem way more threatened by the fact that you couldn’t actually answer the questions I asked in a polite and congenial way and (because the numbers werent your own creation at all) so you resorted to bullying.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
That said, if you find something that I legitimately misrepresented in the OP I am more than happy to correct it, which I have consistently done in my time posting on this forum.
Yeah, a link to the specific press release where you pulled the data so I can get answers to my questions, which you could have simply done in your initial reply by adulting up and saying:

“Hey, I appreciate the questions and I’d like to know the answers myself as well. I pulled the data from here (link), maybe you could figure those out and we can see where those answers take the discussion?”

But, of course, that would be too nice.

Instead, what you did was say “idk, the census did this, but I imagine that they included principal cities xyz” and then include a description of what a principal city is as if to say “here dude, you clearly don’t know what a principal city is so let me teach you.”

Let me teach you something about manners and implications: if a person is engaging with you on an academic level and speaking up to you / assuming you did all that work yourself just to post on a forum, you don’t turn around and speak down to them. Bully.

Doing so heavily implies that you are threatened by their intelligence, can’t fully engage, and project onto them by telling them that they are trolls or high. And this is not the first time you’ve done this to me and others. I have called it out before and I will continue to do so until you either realize what you are actually doing and choose to change and grow, or are banned.
__________________
HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)

Last edited by wwmiv; Oct 2, 2022 at 1:40 AM.
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  #17  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 1:17 AM
PhillyRising's Avatar
PhillyRising PhillyRising is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lionville, PA
Posts: 11,778
I've never lived in a single home in my life.

I grew up living in a twin home.

I lived in apartments after i moved out of my parents house.

I bought my parents house.

I sold that and bought a new townhouse.

I sold that and went back to renting.

I think it would almost be odd for me to live in a house that there wasn't somebody on the other side of the wall.
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  #18  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 1:20 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Location: Austin -> San Antonio -> Columbia -> San Antonio -> Chicago -> Austin -> Denver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
North Dakota is the suprise inclusion in this list of the % of total single family in the state.
California -- 57%
Illinois -- 56%
Rhode Island -- 55%
Pennsylvania -- 55%
Florida -- 55%
New Jersey -- 54%
Massachusetts -- 52%
Maryland -- 51%
North Dakota -- 48%
Hawaii -- 47%
New York -- 39%
District of Columbia -- 12%
At first glance, I wonder if % Native American might be making a difference here, but North Dakota is still an outlier among states that have higher Native Populations. It may be a statistically significant factor, but more in depth regression analysis would be needed to answer that.

My second thought is employee housing maintained by oil and fracking companies making a huge difference here due to the law of small numbers (e.g. smaller numerical changes will more greatly affect the percentage change from smaller bases than larger bases). North Dakota doesn’t have much housing and has a large transient worker population for those industries that need to be housed somewhere, hence employer-provided group quarters.
__________________
HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
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  #19  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 5:07 AM
muppet's Avatar
muppet muppet is offline
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Location: London
Posts: 6,185
Interesting. In my own city London has just under 5% detached housing, but its metro has about one third. The 'disparity' is 18% or ratio 1:7

.
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  #20  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2022, 4:39 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
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Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 29,825
the city of chicago overall is 24% detached-SFH, but a giant percentage of that is found in the outter bungalow-belt hoods.

my zip code on the far northside (lincoln square/albany park) is only 15% detched SFH.

but my area is a champion of "missing middle" housing with 60% of all housing units within structures containing 2 - 9 units (2-flats, 3-flats, 6-flats).


i've never lived in a SFH since becoming an adult (though i spent my entire childhood growing up in a SFH in the northern burbs of chicago).

it's interesting how where i live now is basically a full inversion of where i grew up.

my childhood zip code was about 80% SFH / 20% multi-family, and here in the city it's 15% SFH / 85% multi-family.
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"Missing middle" housing can be a great middle ground for many middle class families.

Last edited by Steely Dan; Oct 3, 2022 at 5:05 PM.
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