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  #2281  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2022, 10:38 PM
freerover freerover is offline
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Originally Posted by lonewolf View Post
the problem is we have low cognition bad actors who have a personal vendetta with musk and use this forum as a medium to broadcast their personal narrative. thus creating the need for moderation

the mods don't enjoy moderating. people don't like reading emotionally held opinions about public figures on a construction forum. the discourse on here wrt musk is not remotely close to "a place where we can talk about complicated multi-layered developments" it's more akin to monkeys throwing feces at a wall then screeching at the moderators when they have to clean it up

it's unfortunate but it is what it is
very curious. Where do you see yourself within this web of moderators, bad actors, "normal users" or whatever you want to call it. Neutral users? Do you see this as a community of neutral users and biased users? How do you determine which is which?
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  #2282  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2022, 11:26 PM
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lzppjb lzppjb is offline
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Personally, I don't care if Elon gets discussed here. I skip over most of it anyway.

What I don't like, and why it was moderated, is when it devolves into politics. That is such a divisive topic to even hint at, I think it's a good idea to keep it off of here. There are places on this website to discuss politics.
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  #2283  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2022, 11:45 PM
freerover freerover is offline
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Originally Posted by lzppjb View Post
Personally, I don't care if Elon gets discussed here. I skip over most of it anyway.

What I don't like, and why it was moderated, is when it devolves into politics. That is such a divisive topic to even hint at, I think it's a good idea to keep it off of here. There are places on this website to discuss politics.
I think it depends on the context in which his politics is brought up because it’s possible it could be relevant based on the man’s own statements about politics and how it relates to his businesses. I mean, does anyone think Elon really belongs to either party? The point of pretending like he is a partisan is to distract from the fraud investigations related to autopilot and FSD. The dude is not a republican, he’s not a democrat. He is a musk.

Also, I think you misread that comment in the locked Tesla thread. He wasn't saying that voting republican is wrong. He was pointing to the reason why there is a perceived red/blue fight with Musk. I would suggest going back and re-reading that exchange.
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  #2284  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2022, 8:42 PM
enragedcamel enragedcamel is offline
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Elon Musk may be one of the richest people in the world but he's not THAT central to Austin's economy. Remember that our economy was booming way before Tesla moved its HQ here. And if Tesla happened to disappear tomorrow for whatever reason, we would continue to do quite well.

That's actually one of the nice things about Austin's economy and what makes it healthy and resilient: it doesn't revolve around a single employer like the economies of a lot of cities.
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  #2285  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2022, 9:15 PM
StoOgE StoOgE is offline
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I do feel moderately frustrated that when Elon coming to Austin was good news we were able to discuss wildly speculative nonsense but once the worm started turning and he started acting like a weirdo publicly everything got locked down.

I mean, the guy has proposed radically transforming our city, building new neighborhoods, boring tunnels to San Antonio and right when news was breaking about unsafe treatment of contractors on a worksite for Tesla everything was Thanos snapped out of existence.

I think a forum can be generally pro-development and not just be a cheerleading section for developers.
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  #2286  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2022, 2:49 AM
psychlotron psychlotron is offline
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I honestly don't care (i.e. neither like nor dislike) the idea of posting about Musk on this forum. After all, he's in the news either way. Constantly!

But I thought it was a good idea when somebody started a thread specifically about Musk/Space/Boring/Tesla. And I think they did that back when things were generally positive.

It's obviously relevant to talk about Musk in the "Economic Development" thread. But doing so really does seem to crowd other topics out.

Speaking only for myself here: I'd rather see it in the Musk/Space/Boring/Tesla section.

I'll still read it if it looks interesting!
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  #2287  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2022, 3:55 PM
We vs us We vs us is offline
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Fairly significant takedown (IMO) of the Boring Company by WSJ.

Elon Musk’s Boring Company Ghosts Cities Across America
The tunnel venture has repeatedly teased local officials with a pledge to ‘solve soul-destroying traffic,’ only to back out

https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-mu...ic-11669658396

I have to say, not particularly surprising, based on what we've seen so far in our own backyard.
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  #2288  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2022, 6:04 PM
Tyrone Shoes Tyrone Shoes is online now
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Originally Posted by We vs us View Post
Fairly significant takedown (IMO) of the Boring Company by WSJ.

Elon Musk’s Boring Company Ghosts Cities Across America
The tunnel venture has repeatedly teased local officials with a pledge to ‘solve soul-destroying traffic,’ only to back out

https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-mu...ic-11669658396

I have to say, not particularly surprising, based on what we've seen so far in our own backyard.
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  #2289  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 2:14 PM
enragedcamel enragedcamel is offline
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https://www.businessinsider.com/remo...alypse-2022-12

Remote Work Is Gutting Downtowns, Will Cost Cities $453B

Quote:
Even in cities where more workers have returned, like Austin or Dallas, occupancy rates are still only 60% of what they were prepandemic. These shifts follow the unassailable stickiness of remote work; researchers for the National Bureau of Economic Research predicted that 30% of workdays would be worked from home by the end of this year, a huge jump from before the pandemic.
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  #2290  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 3:31 PM
We vs us We vs us is offline
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Originally Posted by enragedcamel View Post
https://www.businessinsider.com/remo...alypse-2022-12

Remote Work Is Gutting Downtowns, Will Cost Cities $453B
The remote work thing really feels unsettled and unresolved. I'm not convinced that this is actually the new normal. It may be for some time, but most corps have a vested interest in having formal locations with at least semi-formal work hours. I can see this continuing to be a phenomenon that corps slowly push back on until it's nonexistent or at least trivial.
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  #2291  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 7:01 PM
freerover freerover is offline
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Originally Posted by We vs us View Post
The remote work thing really feels unsettled and unresolved. I'm not convinced that this is actually the new normal. It may be for some time, but most corps have a vested interest in having formal locations with at least semi-formal work hours. I can see this continuing to be a phenomenon that corps slowly push back on until it's nonexistent or at least trivial.
The problem is that office leases are pretty long. It'll take another 5 years of leases ending to see the real impact but I think it's more likely we'll see more companies downtown using less space as oppose to larger operations. The lucky thing for us is that we were massively underbuilt for office space. I think we would be on trouble if we weren't and we had seen the same office boom in the last 5 years but we were just so far behind cir. 2019.

We might also see some natural leveling where tenants slowly move to newer buildings and we see some of the 80s office buildings razed and changed use to hotel or residential.

Last edited by freerover; Dec 6, 2022 at 9:12 PM.
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  #2292  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lonewolf View Post
the problem is we have low cognition bad actors who have a personal vendetta with musk and use this forum as a medium to broadcast their personal narrative. thus creating the need for moderation

the mods don't enjoy moderating. people don't like reading emotionally held opinions about public figures on a construction forum. the discourse on here wrt musk is not remotely close to "a place where we can talk about complicated multi-layered developments" it's more akin to monkeys throwing feces at a wall then screeching at the moderators when they have to clean it up

it's unfortunate but it is what it is
Yep - painfully obvious.
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  #2293  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 9:52 PM
We vs us We vs us is offline
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Originally Posted by freerover View Post
The problem is that office leases are pretty long. It'll take another 5 years of leases ending to see the real impact but I think it's more likely we'll see more companies downtown using less space as oppose to larger operations. The lucky thing for us is that we were massively underbuilt for office space. I think we would be on trouble if we weren't and we had seen the same office boom in the last 5 years but we were just so far behind cir. 2019.

We might also see some natural leveling where tenants slowly move to newer buildings and we see some of the 80s office buildings razed and changed use to hotel or residential.
I also agree that this period will restructure office demand broadly -- there will def be fallout. But as I said it's not clear to me yet by how much, and how radically it actually departs from what existed before.

And IMO it's not just a capital investment problem (though for sure it's that); it's a direct challenge to corp culture-building, which is deadly serious for the Bigs. Culture is central to all human capital thinking -- it attracts new talent, helps retain existing talent, established internal rules and mores, is a sales and marketing piece, sometimes has philanthropy and community engagement woven in. But WFH completely upends culture -- potentially nullifies it. Relegates work to a third order of importance in our lives, and while all of us white collar folks are clamoring for it, and have wanted work to be of somewhat less importance . . . none of us are really thinking about what it means if everyone does what we individually want.

Anyhoo, culture is rooted in place, IMO, and that's why work needs a place, even if it's only a place you go to once or twice a week.
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  #2294  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 11:30 PM
enragedcamel enragedcamel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf View Post
the problem is we have low cognition bad actors who have a personal vendetta with musk and use this forum as a medium to broadcast their personal narrative. thus creating the need for moderation

the mods don't enjoy moderating. people don't like reading emotionally held opinions about public figures on a construction forum. the discourse on here wrt musk is not remotely close to "a place where we can talk about complicated multi-layered developments" it's more akin to monkeys throwing feces at a wall then screeching at the moderators when they have to clean it up

it's unfortunate but it is what it is
Elon Musk is an enormously influential and polarizing figure, as evidenced by the fact that the subject of him causes these types of deep disagreements even on a construction forum.

I don't think it's realistic to expect people to act like robots and withhold their personal opinions of him when they talk about his companies because his behavior and his values are reflected in those companies at least to some extent. It should be totally okay to welcome his positive contributions to Austin and its economy, while at the same time expressing skepticism about the way he acts, the way he manages his business affairs and the way his companies operate and treat their employees.

IMHO the only thing that should be off-limits is his personal life and news and gossip related to that. Everything else is relevant. For example it would be irresponsible to discuss various local Boring Company proposals without mentioning the fact that he flat out told his biographer, Ashlee Vance, that the only reason he introduced the idea of "hyperloop" was to sabotage the progress of High Speed Rail in California and try to get it canceled, and we should be very skeptical of, say, his suggestion of digging a tunnel between Austin and San Antonio.
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  #2295  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2023, 9:02 PM
StoOgE StoOgE is offline
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Looks like tesla is effectively returning its HQ to Palo Alto.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...rs-2023-02-22/
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  #2296  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2023, 9:07 PM
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GoldenBoot GoldenBoot is offline
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Originally Posted by StoOgE View Post
Looks like tesla is effectively returning its HQ to Palo Alto.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...rs-2023-02-22/
I do not read it that way. They're simply creating a global engineering HQ in the old HP headquarters. In fact, I believe their core software and hardware engineering operations never rally left California.

There was zero talk of corporate operations moving back to California. So, I would assume the head of the new organization will report to someone in Austin.
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Last edited by GoldenBoot; Feb 22, 2023 at 10:40 PM.
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  #2297  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2023, 11:00 PM
JoninATX JoninATX is offline
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Quote:
"The facility will serve as the company’s engineering headquarters while the corporate headquarters remains in Austin."
https://www.wric.com/news/u-s-world/...%20in%20Austin

Makes sense that California is still the leader in innovation.
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  #2298  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2023, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JoninATX View Post
https://www.wric.com/news/u-s-world/...%20in%20Austin

Makes sense that California is still the leader in innovation.
California is a huge market for Tesla vehicles. So it makes good business sense to design and build cars there. Plus Austin will probably end up with around 20K Tesla employees which is of course huge. And that's not counting the Boring and SpaceEx plans.
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  #2299  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2023, 3:28 PM
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Yeah, I don't think this means that Musk Companies will be exiting the Austin metro any time soon. I see this as actually a reversion to pre-pandemic office strategy (of which Austin has been an historical beneficiary): drop multiple branches or HQs in desirable areas and treat them as regional hubs for remote or hybrid talent. CA's just too important to tech to not have a hand in that game.
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  #2300  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2023, 4:32 PM
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In one of the articles Musk said he saw it as essentially two HQs for Tesla. Can't find it again, unfortunately, but it's out there.
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