AUSTIN | Misc. Discussions - No Politics

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

You have to apply beforehand for the exemption.

Yes, but Jdawgboy was talking about beforehand (going various places to update her ID).

[airwx]

Google Fiber is giving out free t-shirts to Austinites again. This design includes many notable buildings and locations around town. I really like it.

[lzppjb]

I support voter ID laws. Actually, I support even more than that. I believe there should be some sort of poll quiz before your vote is counted. Too much of that stupid "just go vote" crap. People don't know shit about what they are voting for. They just vote.

Just like bad rail is worse than no rail, an uninformed vote is worse than no vote. If you don't know anything about what/who you're voting for, do us all a favor and stay home or educate yourself.

[the Genral]

We all know people are moving to the Austin area every day. I met 8 groups in the last 3 days that have been here from two weeks to "just got here" two days ago. Three families from CA., one family from MN., a couple from Chicago, a couple from VA., and last night, a young lady from Boise, and a couple from Denver. Since I see many people a day at my job in retail, I'm getting an idea where most of the people I meet are coming from...California. I meet a lot of people from NY, but the majority of them escaped NY at least a few years ago, like me. The ones from CA tell me their decision was mostly due to the lower cost of living here, the other reasons from this group, 3 getting away from the cold, VA couple came for work, Boise girl came to get away from her boyfriend. The couple from Denver thought it was funny how everyone here was "suffering" from the cold...they said it was zero degrees back in Denver. The majority of the CA'ers say they miss CA, but couldn't pass up our more for less real estate and cost of living. A recent CA transplant told me their cost for natural gas was higher than electric. He was from around Oakland. The girl from Boise told me, without me asking, that ducks do land on the blue football playing field...smurf turf...of the Boise St. Broncos, they think its a lake....I guess the ducks aren't too smart up in Idaho.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

I support voter ID laws. Actually, I support even more than that. I believe there should be some sort of poll quiz before your vote is counted. Too much of that stupid "just go vote" crap. People don't know shit about what they are voting for. They just vote.

Just like bad rail is worse than no rail, an uninformed vote is worse than no vote. If you don't know anything about what/who you're voting for, do us all a favor and stay home or educate yourself.

Thank you for elucidating your rather antiquated views that are scarily in line with the old Democratic racists of the Jim Crow era.

[KevinFromTexas]

I get what lzppjb is saying, though. While I think everyone should vote, they should be informed. I really have to roll my eyes at the idea of voting becoming some trendy thing to do just so you can say you did, without much meaning behind it. We have too many meaningless trends these days already. I'm not saying voting is worthless or unimportant of course. I'm just wishing people put more thought into it and did their homework a little more, and, relied less on emotion for their decision. All that said, I disagree with restrictions to voting, which in the end up hurting American citizens. We already have pathetic turnouts without discouraging people even more. Americans are a lazy bunch. There were something like 9+ million Texans this time who didn't vote. And those were just the registered ones. There are approximately another 8 million of legal voting age who aren't even registered to vote.

Anyway, I'm ok with these people not voting. I can't believe some people can be so daft.

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[lzppjb]

Try again, wwmiv.

I said nothing about race, creed, sexual orientation or anything else. I said you need to have an idea about what you are voting for. That is not too much to ask. If you are not educated on the people/issues/topics at hand, and just vote blindly, you are drowning out those who want real representation.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

Try again, wwmiv.

I said nothing about race, creed, sexual orientation or anything else. I said you need to have an idea about what you are voting for. That is not too much to ask. If you are not educated on the people/issues/topics at hand, and just vote blindly, you are drowning out those who want real representation.

I didn't say YOU /said/ anything about race, creed, sexual orientation or whatever else. I said that WHAT you said is for all intents and purposes the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT that southern racists used to prevent blacks and latinos from voting during Jim Crow.

[Tech House]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

I support voter ID laws. Actually, I support even more than that. I believe there should be some sort of poll quiz before your vote is counted. Too much of that stupid "just go vote" crap. People don't know shit about what they are voting for. They just vote.

What you're advocating is the end of democracy, substituting the current system with something like a technocracy, plutocracy, or whatever you'd call it when access to voting is restricted according to those who possess an arbitrarily defined knowledge base.

Most of us have probably had the following thought at some point in our lives: "They shouldn't even be allowed to vote." Most of us don't commit to that point of view, because we recognize that "they" (however we're defining the category) are equally protected under the Constitution and have every right to help determine who will represent them in our democratic republic.

The elite of our society are over-represented as it is. Higher levels of achievement and education correspond to higher levels of income, wealth, and power. What today's GOP and their right-wing libertarian supporters are now promulgating is a codification of over-representation that only exacerbates this societal inequity. By systematically dismantling every avenue by which the underclass can participate in mainstream American society, they're moving us toward a modern feudalism. They make it increasingly impossible for the disadvantaged to do anything to better their lives, while they criticize and condemn them with increasingly shrill voices as lazy, ignorant, worthless, criminal, and evil. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy, in which outcasts become the thing they're accused of being, not because it's their preferred way of being, but because of limited recourse or alternatives. The criminal justice system illustrates this very clearly, that by branding someone with a criminal record and putting restrictions on those individuals' future participation in mainstream society, they are condemned to a life in which crime not only pays, it may just be the ONLY thing that pays.

[austlar1]

Nice well thought out writing, Tech House.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Tech House

What you're advocating is the end of democracy, substituting the current system with something like a technocracy, plutocracy, or whatever you'd call it when access to voting is restricted according to those who possess an arbitrarily defined knowledge base.

Most of us have probably had the following thought at some point in our lives: "They shouldn't even be allowed to vote." Most of us don't commit to that point of view, because we recognize that "they" (however we're defining the category) are equally protected under the Constitution and have every right to help determine who will represent them in our democratic republic.

The elite of our society are over-represented as it is. Higher levels of achievement and education correspond to higher levels of income, wealth, and power. What today's GOP and their right-wing libertarian supporters are now promulgating is a codification of over-representation that only exacerbates this societal inequity. By systematically dismantling every avenue by which the underclass can participate in mainstream American society, they're moving us toward a modern feudalism. They make it increasingly impossible for the disadvantaged to do anything to better their lives, while they criticize and condemn them with increasingly shrill voices as lazy, ignorant, worthless, criminal, and evil. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy, in which outcasts become the thing they're accused of being, not because it's their preferred way of being, but because of limited recourse or alternatives. The criminal justice system illustrates this very clearly, that by branding someone with a criminal record and putting restrictions on those individuals' future participation in mainstream society, they are condemned to a life in which crime not only pays, it may just be the ONLY thing that pays.

Thank you for this very well written argument.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by Tech House

What you're advocating is the end of democracy, substituting the current system with something like a technocracy, plutocracy, or whatever you'd call it when access to voting is restricted according to those who possess an arbitrarily defined knowledge base.

Most of us have probably had the following thought at some point in our lives: "They shouldn't even be allowed to vote." Most of us don't commit to that point of view, because we recognize that "they" (however we're defining the category) are equally protected under the Constitution and have every right to help determine who will represent them in our democratic republic.

The elite of our society are over-represented as it is. Higher levels of achievement and education correspond to higher levels of income, wealth, and power. What today's GOP and their right-wing libertarian supporters are now promulgating is a codification of over-representation that only exacerbates this societal inequity. By systematically dismantling every avenue by which the underclass can participate in mainstream American society, they're moving us toward a modern feudalism. They make it increasingly impossible for the disadvantaged to do anything to better their lives, while they criticize and condemn them with increasingly shrill voices as lazy, ignorant, worthless, criminal, and evil. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy, in which outcasts become the thing they're accused of being, not because it's their preferred way of being, but because of limited recourse or alternatives. The criminal justice system illustrates this very clearly, that by branding someone with a criminal record and putting restrictions on those individuals' future participation in mainstream society, they are condemned to a life in which crime not only pays, it may just be the ONLY thing that pays.

And how is democracy the end all system of government?

The elite of our society keep calling the shots because they have the resources to manipulate the voters.

[lzppjb]

Originally Posted by Tech House

What you're advocating is the end of democracy, substituting the current system with something like a technocracy, plutocracy, or whatever you'd call it when access to voting is restricted according to those who possess an arbitrarily defined knowledge base.

Most of us have probably had the following thought at some point in our lives: "They shouldn't even be allowed to vote." Most of us don't commit to that point of view, because we recognize that "they" (however we're defining the category) are equally protected under the Constitution and have every right to help determine who will represent them in our democratic republic.

The elite of our society are over-represented as it is. Higher levels of achievement and education correspond to higher levels of income, wealth, and power. What today's GOP and their right-wing libertarian supporters are now promulgating is a codification of over-representation that only exacerbates this societal inequity. By systematically dismantling every avenue by which the underclass can participate in mainstream American society, they're moving us toward a modern feudalism. They make it increasingly impossible for the disadvantaged to do anything to better their lives, while they criticize and condemn them with increasingly shrill voices as lazy, ignorant, worthless, criminal, and evil. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy, in which outcasts become the thing they're accused of being, not because it's their preferred way of being, but because of limited recourse or alternatives. The criminal justice system illustrates this very clearly, that by branding someone with a criminal record and putting restrictions on those individuals' future participation in mainstream society, they are condemned to a life in which crime not only pays, it may just be the ONLY thing that pays.

I don't agree with any of this, but I won't start a fight. This isn't a political board.

[KevinFromTexas]

I mostly agree with what he's saying. There is a fundamental problem in American politics where money is influence which translates to power, but this phenomenon is not unique to the GOP. Both parties and all politicians have a price to persuade them. This is a pretty good list showing corporate and organization donations to both parties.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

I mostly agree with what he's saying. There is a fundamental problem in American politics where money is influence which translates to power, but this phenomenon is not unique to the GOP. Both parties and all politicians have a price to persuade them. This is a pretty good list showing corporate and organization donations to both parties.

There are no corporate donations at the federal level... What you're looking at there are industry and or corporation specific donations. In other words, how much money individuals in a type of industry or particular corporate entity have donated from their personal bank accounts.

Disclaimer: I worked in campaign finance for years until I started pursuing my Ph.D. in political science.

[Tech House]

Of course it happens to be the case that there are individuals who are truly unable to vote because of severe mental or other disability, so we have to think of their well-being, and not just our own, when we vote. Similarly, we vote on behalf of anyone who is legally ineligible, especially youth/children, and we even vote on behalf of other species because we have an enormous impact on them. In an ideal situation, maybe there would only be some minority of people voting or maybe there'd be no vote at all, and leaders would act in the best interests of all instead of merely serving their own selfish interests. This is the crux of the issue right now with respect to voting rights and restrictions: those who are most likely to vote have not proven themselves willing and able to vote on behalf of the best interests of all, and instead have abused their situation to re-write laws such that wealth more easily comes to them and concentrates in their hands, while a larger share of the population falls into poverty, the environment suffers, and future generations are saddled with the cost of the greed of the ruling class.

[lzppjb]

I fully support voter ID laws. But I also fully support getting every citizen some sort of acceptable form of ID. If they don't have transportation, we should get them a ride (pay for a taxi, volunteer, etc). If they can't travel for medical reasons, we should help them get one from home.

I don't want ID laws to keep people from voting unless they are doing so illegally. That's all it should be for. That's the ideal situation.

As for what I said about people needing to have knowledge about the issues before they vote, that's my frustration speaking. There should not be a poll tax, and probably should not be a poll quiz either. I say probably because I've seen so many interviews of voters who are so dumb, it amazes me they can put their shoes on in the morning. It's sad.

[Tech House]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

I fully support voter ID laws. But I also fully support getting every citizen some sort of acceptable form of ID. If they don't have transportation, we should get them a ride (pay for a taxi, volunteer, etc). If they can't travel for medical reasons, we should help them get one from home.

I don't want ID laws to keep people from voting unless they are doing so illegally. That's all it should be for. That's the ideal situation.

As for what I said about people needing to have knowledge about the issues before they vote, that's my frustration speaking. There should not be a poll tax, and probably should not be a poll quiz either. I say probably because I've seen so many interviews of voters who are so dumb, it amazes me they can put their shoes on in the morning. It's sad.

Well, darn, now I can't find much to disagree with in your position on this issue. I definitely like your opening remark about having ID laws AND providing ID to everyone. That is fair and there are quite a few good reasons for doing that, although it would cause a stink among those who get paranoid whenever anyone suggests some form of universal ID. "The mark of the beast!" "New world order!" "Illuminati!"

Speaking of which, does anyone else here feel embarrassed that Austin is the home of Alex Jones?

[lzppjb]

Originally Posted by Tech House

Well, darn, now I can't find much to disagree with in your position on this issue. I definitely like your opening remark about having ID laws AND providing ID to everyone. That is fair and there are quite a few good reasons for doing that, although it would cause a stink among those who get paranoid whenever anyone suggests some form of universal ID. "The mark of the beast!" "New world order!" "Illuminati!"

Speaking of which, does anyone else here feel embarrassed that Austin is the home of Alex Jones?

See? There are things we can agree on. Those are the things our Reps should get done (either on the state level, or the federal). Get some common sense things done. Get some traction. But instead, they play politics with everything. It's all a game to them. The end goal is to get re-elected. Term limits would help fix that.


Alex Jones is fun. I used to watch him on access tv about 14 years ago. I was in HS. I haven't followed him all that much since then. A lot of his theories are whacko bird stuff, but there are some that I can very much believe.

[resansom]

Originally Posted by Tech House

Speaking of which, does anyone else here feel embarrassed that Austin is the home of Alex Jones?

As an ex-patriot Austinite now living in Redondo Beach who is normally able to explain that Austin is a reasonable, progressive oasis in the middle of an intolerant, ultra conservative desert, I have to answer that question with a loud, unequivocal "yes."